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Testin da Cable
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oh no 
[not that I liked the guy, but a political shooting? here? FS.]
[not that I liked the guy, but a political shooting? here? FS.]
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mr.Blacky
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he aint a facist, though he is (was?) a twat.
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throdgrain
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Bloody hell
Spot the martyr anyone ?
Spot the martyr anyone ?
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Disco PhoolCat
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Looks like it's time to head for the shelters, boys! The voices in my head say it's time to polish my guns...
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Testin da Cable
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peeps just told me there are huge riots going on in The Hague right now
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Ono
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Originally posted by testin_da_cable
peeps just told me there are huge riots going on in The Hague right now
Well, what are you sat indoors for?!
Get those petrol bombs out.
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mr.Blacky
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petrol bombs? they use drug bombs here.Originally posted by Ono
Get those petrol bombs out.
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old.Kez
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As much as I've grasped [not much] he was gay and openly stated hating muslims for their degredation of women?
His death will have stunted politics' growing in the western world [having gays, or women in positions of power, etc] imo.
Ho hum :/
His death will have stunted politics' growing in the western world [having gays, or women in positions of power, etc] imo.
Ho hum :/
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Stazbumpa
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Despite his stance I actually thought he was probably the best of the far right mob in that he had the balls to tell Islam what he thought of them. He is quoted as saying "I am gay, so to the Muslim population I am less than a pig".
As I have already stated elsewhere, some of the things the far right mob are saying have merit, but the fucking far right have never stuck to what they say so I dont trust them one bit.
As I have already stated elsewhere, some of the things the far right mob are saying have merit, but the fucking far right have never stuck to what they say so I dont trust them one bit.
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Skyler
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Poor bloke :/
Rather they shot someone like saddam
Rather they shot someone like saddam
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Ono
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It disturbs me that you guys seem to think that he was OK because he had something against islam. 
Sure he was a moderate facist but any party with a policy of forceful repatriation of muslims is a bit too far right for my liking.
From the interview I saw, he was arrogant and kinda looked like Dr Evil.
Oh, and I do have a problem with him being a homo and in power. How can you bring up children in a world where taking a another bloke up the arse is deemed normal? It isn't normal BTW guys.
Sure he was a moderate facist
but any party with a policy of forceful repatriation of muslims is a bit too far right for my liking.From the interview I saw, he was arrogant and kinda looked like Dr Evil.
Oh, and I do have a problem with him being a homo and in power. How can you bring up children in a world where taking a another bloke up the arse is deemed normal?
It isn't normal BTW guys.
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Disco PhoolCat
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Originally posted by Ono
Oh, and I do have a problem with him being a homo and in power. How can you bring up children in a world where taking a another bloke up the arse is deemed normal?
So, what's "normal?"
Interesting that you speak against his bigotry AND his faggotry in the same post.
Hello, Mr Pot, can I introduce you to Mr Kettle?
I know Gay Rights is a whole other issue, but bigotry is bigotry, right?
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bigbb
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He was portrayed as a very racist man, but he was no-where near the level of Le Pen, as I understand it. He was talking on a more functional and practical line, his argument was there were simply not the resources of space for more immigration into the Netherlands. He didn't want immigrants who were already in the country to leave, he wanted them to assimilate the Dutch culture and integrate with the communities. I have to say some of it sounds like common sense and something mainstream parties are not willing to talk about; if immigrants wish to settle or seek work, safety and stability in another country, that's more than welcome. But, equally people must be willing to integrate into that society and culture and respect it for what it is.
So it's two fold, at least that's what I thought this blokee was trying to do.
He shouldn't have been shot any or either way; it's a human life despite his views or prejudice.
So it's two fold, at least that's what I thought this blokee was trying to do.
He shouldn't have been shot any or either way; it's a human life despite his views or prejudice.
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Scouse
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I'll tell you what "normal" is.
ITS A BLOKE FUCKING A WOMAN.
There you go. "Normal" - defined.
Don't be a twat with this what is "normal" shit. Normal is what is generally accepted as the "norm". That's generally what "most" people do.
"Most" people don't fuck members of the same sex in the ass.
Having said that.... each to their own eh?
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Kempo
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mmmz nothing wrong with gay ppl, they human jsut the same, some of my m8s are and i get on fine with them... no need to stereotype ppl jsut coz of their sexual preference, also i agree with what bigbb said, some of what this guy was saying made sense, ie immigrants who come to the country and make absoloutely no effort to integrate into the countries society they just move their own society in they dont attempt to learn the national language and as such they find it difficult to get jobs so they end up being lower class citizens pretty pointless i dunno, in aberdeen tbh its rare to even see any coloured ppl let alone any immigrants so i cant realy speak from any experience ive had.
hmmm
i dunno, in aberdeen tbh its rare to even see any coloured ppl let alone any immigrants so i cant realy speak from any experience ive had.hmmm
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Wij
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It's bad that he was shot no matter what his views. It's a fine line to define but unless someone is directly responsible for the suffering of others then they haven't done anything wrong imo. As far as I'm aware he didn't encourage anyone to oppress Muslims. Maybe his stance has indirectly encouraged people to do so but there's always a price for free speech.
If someone says "Muslims are evil. It's OK to beat them up." It's wrong.
If someone says "I don't think Muslims integrate into our society properly and I don't want any more coming into the country.", then I might not agree with them but it's not morally wrong to express that opinion. It is not necessarily morally wrong to express a view which may be morally wrong. Do you see the distiction ? Otherwise we have no free speech.
This is different to those who support terrorists or racist mobs. They are directly encouraging violence. They can happily be shot for all I care.
If someone says "Muslims are evil. It's OK to beat them up." It's wrong.
If someone says "I don't think Muslims integrate into our society properly and I don't want any more coming into the country.", then I might not agree with them but it's not morally wrong to express that opinion. It is not necessarily morally wrong to express a view which may be morally wrong. Do you see the distiction ? Otherwise we have no free speech.
This is different to those who support terrorists or racist mobs. They are directly encouraging violence. They can happily be shot for all I care.
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throdgrain
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Agreed Wij. He seemed to be saying from the BBC interveiw I saw, that Muslims dont/wont integrate with the other Dutch people, and that it is a "backward and intolerant" religion. Not really the same as being facist as such, particularly as , according to the BBC, by now 50% of the inhabitants of Rotterdam are recent Muslim immegrants. I must admit I find it hard to beleive that figure. 50% ffs ?? If it wernt the BBC I would have thought it made up.
Just to add fuel to my impending abuse, I live in a very multiculteral area, and the Muslim people are as a rule the only ones unwilling to even attempt to fit in. The ones who treat their women dreadfully. Unlike the Hindu people for example, who seem very freindly and try very hard to fit in, whilst keeping their own religions etc.
Go on then, call me a racist someone
Just to add fuel to my impending abuse, I live in a very multiculteral area, and the Muslim people are as a rule the only ones unwilling to even attempt to fit in. The ones who treat their women dreadfully. Unlike the Hindu people for example, who seem very freindly and try very hard to fit in, whilst keeping their own religions etc.
Go on then, call me a racist someone
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Disco PhoolCat
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You're a racist someone , throdgrain!
But seriously, I agree with most of what's been said here. Our society benefits from being multicultural as it has done for millennia. It's only fair to expect immigrants to take part in a TWO way process of intergration.
, throdgrain!But seriously, I agree with most of what's been said here. Our society benefits from being multicultural as it has done for millennia. It's only fair to expect immigrants to take part in a TWO way process of intergration.
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mr.Blacky
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multicultural as it is being used in holland is not good imo, it means that immigrants do not have to intergrate, it means that the original culture is at the same level as the imigrants culture.
I am not saying that one is better then the other. It does however piss me off that some third generations of imigrants do not speak proper dutch, while others have prospered caus they are able to speak it in a way that most people can understand them.
on a side note because we are in a "multicultural" society does this mean I have to learn arabic/chinees/etc. I hope not caus I suck at languages.
I am not saying that one is better then the other. It does however piss me off that some third generations of imigrants do not speak proper dutch, while others have prospered caus they are able to speak it in a way that most people can understand them.
on a side note because we are in a "multicultural" society does this mean I have to learn arabic/chinees/etc. I hope not caus I suck at languages.
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throdgrain
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Well I'll probably get meself in trouble with some pc type here, but no , of course you don't have to learn arabic. Why ? Because you are in Holland ,so you speak Dutch! I am in England, so I speak English. If I moved to Spain for example, would I expect the locals to learn English? No, I'd learn Spanish. Nuff said.
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(Shovel)
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Bearing in mind this is the Netherlands.. everything is more liberal than you'd expect: Legalised drugs, facists that talk sense. What a funny place.
Having said that, the points that people have picked out about this guy are, well, acceptable. It seems that he was shot out of fear of the far right doing well, but it can be garanteed that they will do even better now - can anyone say 'martyr'?
To be honest, I agree with the point that, if immigrants don't want to be part of the country for good then I don't anyone should be expected to 'want' them. But you can't brand them all - even in this country with its generous welfare state.
I don't think the point about having to abandon your own culture when you join a new nation is right though. Mainly because it can't happen. You can't throw down everything you live by. But our country preaches tolerance and as much as we get pissed off at yobs not being tolerant of immigrants, the same is true vice versa.
What's stupid is that coming out and saying: "If you don't want to be part of this nation we don't want you" is aparently facist and racist. It's not blocking anyone who means well. It's not blocking you cause of the colour of anyone's skin.. we'll apply it to people immigrating from Yorkshire too...
Having said that, the points that people have picked out about this guy are, well, acceptable. It seems that he was shot out of fear of the far right doing well, but it can be garanteed that they will do even better now - can anyone say 'martyr'?
To be honest, I agree with the point that, if immigrants don't want to be part of the country for good then I don't anyone should be expected to 'want' them. But you can't brand them all - even in this country with its generous welfare state.
I don't think the point about having to abandon your own culture when you join a new nation is right though. Mainly because it can't happen. You can't throw down everything you live by. But our country preaches tolerance and as much as we get pissed off at yobs not being tolerant of immigrants, the same is true vice versa.
What's stupid is that coming out and saying: "If you don't want to be part of this nation we don't want you" is aparently facist and racist. It's not blocking anyone who means well. It's not blocking you cause of the colour of anyone's skin.. we'll apply it to people immigrating from Yorkshire too...
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Stazbumpa
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I reckon a Muslim group did it, but then I'm biased. Without trying to sound like a cunt, I actually agree with his statement on Islam in part. Muslims as a whole dont want to intigrate, and see any attempts to coerce them into doing so as an affront to their religion.
Personally I dont believe that Islam is like this, but then Islam, like Christianity, is only as good as the person who preaches it and there seems to be an abundance of dickheads in charge of the Muslim faith at the moment. Just like Christianity.
The bottom line is that nearly all of the Muslim governments in the world are cunts and treat their people like shit. Islamic regimes have probably the worst human rights abuse records on the planet and for Muslims, or anybody for that matter, to come over here, illegally if it suits them, to ignore the rules and traditions of the country they are in and on top of this not even bothering to learn fucking english in some cases, that my friends takes the piss.
Islam has a lot of explaining to do and its about time the Muslim world accepted the criticism and, instead of blowing themselves up or shooting people, addressed the problems that their religion can, and frequently does, cause.
Personally I dont believe that Islam is like this, but then Islam, like Christianity, is only as good as the person who preaches it and there seems to be an abundance of dickheads in charge of the Muslim faith at the moment. Just like Christianity.
The bottom line is that nearly all of the Muslim governments in the world are cunts and treat their people like shit. Islamic regimes have probably the worst human rights abuse records on the planet and for Muslims, or anybody for that matter, to come over here, illegally if it suits them, to ignore the rules and traditions of the country they are in and on top of this not even bothering to learn fucking english in some cases, that my friends takes the piss.
Islam has a lot of explaining to do and its about time the Muslim world accepted the criticism and, instead of blowing themselves up or shooting people, addressed the problems that their religion can, and frequently does, cause.
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Perplex
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Sawtooth
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Another discussion on racism. Seems to be the popular debate at the moment.
What about Blunkets new bill where people undergo some kind of allegiance ceremony, isnt that trying to adjust the balance? ...dont know how successful that will be.
I heard on the radio (4) tonight that there are now more people entering Britain than leaving it (First time in years apparently) and this is going to go on for some considerable time.
I wonder what it is that makes people migrate past many other countries to GB. Is it our lax social security, easy money? or are the pavements paved with gold? I'm all for rescuing people from genuine life threatening situations and quite rightly so, but what about the so called economic migrants. Where do we draw the line?
Hard isnt it.
I think of myself as a fairly reasonable person as I think many other people are here but just what is the limit? We have finite resources, we have a rapidly aging population which needs supporting (got your pension in order yet?) so what is fair?
I think all these things have to be balanced.
Saw
What about Blunkets new bill where people undergo some kind of allegiance ceremony, isnt that trying to adjust the balance? ...dont know how successful that will be.
I heard on the radio (4) tonight that there are now more people entering Britain than leaving it (First time in years apparently) and this is going to go on for some considerable time.
I wonder what it is that makes people migrate past many other countries to GB. Is it our lax social security, easy money? or are the pavements paved with gold? I'm all for rescuing people from genuine life threatening situations and quite rightly so, but what about the so called economic migrants. Where do we draw the line?
Hard isnt it.
I think of myself as a fairly reasonable person as I think many other people are here but just what is the limit? We have finite resources, we have a rapidly aging population which needs supporting (got your pension in order yet?) so what is fair?
I think all these things have to be balanced.
Saw
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Ono
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Britain needs to tighten up (a lot) on immigration.
Too easy. Suggest shoot-to-kill at the mouth of the Channel Tunnel.
Too easy. Suggest shoot-to-kill at the mouth of the Channel Tunnel.
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Disco PhoolCat
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Incoming or Outgoing?
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Wij
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Despite what I said about it being wrong that the guy was shot I'd like to make it clear that I still disagree with his views. Problems caused by immigration need addressing by both sides. His solution seemed to be all one way. I know many young muslims in Halifax and whilst there are some dickheads most are decent blokes. There's plenty of home-grown dickheads here too shouting 'send em back' and stuff.
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bigbb
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Originally posted by Perplex
The irony being Churchill was one of the first to speak aloud of his support and vision for a united Europe.
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(Shovel)
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Yes, but so did Thatcher, and we all know how historians are.
Anyone fancy a miliatry coup? It's that time of night and I'm bored. Just push through a few constituation reforms, let everyone speak their minds for a few days then give it back?
Anyone fancy a miliatry coup? It's that time of night and I'm bored. Just push through a few constituation reforms, let everyone speak their minds for a few days then give it back?