Fuck off AUT

[JingleBells]

Just got this email through from my uni about the strikes [WARNING LONG MESSAGE]

With the dispute running into our exams we need to step up our pressure against
UCEA (Negotiating Body for Universities) to pay our lecturers and get our work
marked. UCEA have dragged this dispute on since October in the hope that
student fears would break the lecturers resolve. Using students in this way is
a disgrace and is damaging our education. Push the University to use its
influence in UCEA to negotiate a fair deal for staff and students.

Make Your Voice Heard:
Tuesday 30th May Assemble 1pm Students Union Steps.

*******************************************************************************

National March on UCEA's HQ Thursday 1st June - Make them negotiate Pay our
lectuers and get our work marked!

Transport call 07930 953 265 campaigns@umsu.manchester.ac.uk

Our Position on the University:
The University has taken a more sympathetic stance to students in response to
united pressure from staff and students. A promise has been made that all exams
will be sat; progression through the years will be unaffected and graduation
will go ahead as planned even on partial grades (students will have the right
to appeal when their final grades come through.) On the face of it this is a
success for students but is less then perfect in reality. Worries remain about
the standard of marking that will occur and about the status of “partial”
graduations in the outside world. Although these are inconveniences for most
it is a real concern on certain courses. The only good result for students will
be when UCEA tables a real deal to the lecturers and ends the dispute.

**************EXPLAINING WHATS HAPPENING****************************************

The AUT and NATFHE, the two Higher Education lecturers Unions, are currently
involved in a pay dispute with the University and Colleges Employers
Association (UCEA). The dispute has led to a one day strike and an assessment
boycott by members of both the AUT and NATFHE. The assessment boycott is a key
issue for students, as it effects whether they will get their exams and
coursework marked. This leaflet will hopefully give you a better understanding
of the situation as it currently stands.

Surely lecturers get paid a lot? Why do they need higher pay?
Throughout the lecturers dispute, many have claimed that lecturers get paid
enough and that they should stop being greedy. However, this is simply not the
case. To become a lecturer you have to do a masters and a PhD. Most people only
become lecturers at the age of 28 with a starting salary of only £24,352.
Granted this is higher than the national average wage but we must bear in mind
that lecturers often incur over £30,000 debt during their student career. On
top of this, lecturers have seen no increase in their pay over the last twenty
years, meaning a 40% pay cut in real terms. In comparison with other
professionals over that period, this is a serious cut. For instance, doctors
and lecturers used to be paid the same. Now, twenty years later, doctors get
0ver £100,000 while the average wage of lecturers is £26,000. The AUT/NATFHE
point out that this, if it continues, will lead to the best and brightest
lecturers seeking employment in other sectors or other countries - thus harming
the quality of our education. It is also worth noting that lecturers get paid
for doing only 40 hours a week work. In reality, however, lecturers do on
average 75 hours a week work, mostly involving preparations for lectures (which
can take up to three hours) or the marking of essays.

Why should students care about lecturers’ pay?
This pay dispute is important because its outcome will directly affect students.
None of us here at the University of Manchester would be able to do our degrees
without the high quality of teaching that we receive. In all departments, the
quality of teaching and, therefore, the quality of the degree depend on having
expert lecturers. It is these expert lecturers that will be forced top find
other employment if pay and conditions don’t improve. Also, the strike is about
more than just lecturers’ pay: it is about the future direction of Higher
Education. The purpose of universities should be to educate students not make a
profit. A quality education can only be delivered by valued, well motivated
lecturers.

But why take it out on students with the assessment boycott?
The AUT/NATFHE submitted their pay claim in October, asking that UCEA consider
it within one month. However, UCEA waited until February to reject the
lecturers pay claim meaning that the industrial action came at the end of the
academic year. UCEA hoped that by doing this they could drive a wedge between
lecturers and students, forcing the lecturers to abandon their pay claims. It
is UCEA’s fault that the dispute has lasted into the exam period and it is they
who have the power to end the dispute. The assessment boycott is the only way
that the lecturers can bring pressure to bear on the Vice-Chancellors (a
research boycott would take years to have an effect and a total strike would
harm our education irreparably) and it is only by standing with our lecturers
that we can end the boycott. If students show their support for lecturers, UCEA
will be forced to negotiate. However, any hope that UCEA have of splitting
students and lecturers will have the effect of prolonging the dispute.

What can I do?
The situation in Manchester is different to that of the national situation with
our Vice-Chancellor being sympathetic to the lecturers (lecturers pay at
Manchester is not that bad). However, the dispute can only be settled
nationally (because lecturers pay at smaller universities is much worse and
without national support they would not be able to maintain the boycott). As a
student, you can protest here in Manchester on the 30th May and call on the
Vice-Chancellor to pressurise UCEA into negotiations to end the boycott. There
will also be a national demonstration outside the UCEA offices in London on the
1st June where we will show UCEA and the media that students support their
lecturers and that the boycott can only end with UCEA’s acceptance of the pay
claim.

--
Rob Owen
Campaigns Officer
University of Manchester Students Union

I am meant to be graduating this summer, and they want us to support this action, WTF. I agree they should be paid more, but jeopardising the future of thousands of graduates is not on. It also seems (see bold bit) that my lecturers on are strike as others elsewhere don't get paid much, which I think should almost be made illegal.

Fucking Socialist *****

 

[mank!]

as billy bragg said, there is power in a union.

look on thre bright side you can spend another year as a student skivvy

 

[gremlin]

It also seems (see bold bit) that my lecturers on are strike as others elsewhere don't get paid much, which I think should almost be made illegal.

I think you misunderstand the point of unions, hopefully you'll never need the support of one in a future career.

 

[tris-]

we did have a strike a while ago, but nothing since.

our tutors are still marking assignments and setting exams.

 

[Draylor]

Heh, as if anyone has any sympathy for the whining &U($£5[££$^s.

They took the job agreeing to the pay & conditions: they can leave when they like.

 

[xane]

Call me Mr Dubious but I'm slightly doubting the information here.

To become a lecturer you have to do a masters and a PhD. Most people only become lecturers at the age of 28 with a starting salary of only £24,352. Granted this is higher than the national average wage but we must bear in mind that lecturers often incur over £30,000 debt during their student career.

£24K starting, for an academic year with all that holiday ? And £30K debt, for doing what until you are 28 ? Surely not earning money between classes to pay it off, because you are too busy studying until your head bleeds every day ?

For instance, doctors and lecturers used to be paid the same. Now, twenty years later, doctors get 0ver £100,000 while the average wage of lecturers is £26,000.

Er, "doctors" ? If you are talking about the 70-hour-per-week A&E doctors then damn well and good they get £100K, if you are talking about GPs then they are not "waged" as they effectively run their own business, and again, most of them do a lot more hours than a lecturer will, for every week of the year too.

Of course, nothing is as life threatening as giving out the wrong mark in a paper is it ? I mean, the stress of your average lecturer must knock the hundreds of medical decisions that doctors and nurses make on a daily basis into a cocked hat.

They must think they are worth every penny.

 

[tris-]

you dont have to attain a PHD to become a lecturer :/

 

[Furr]

Im not sure about this, you don't have to have PHD to be a lecturer, I know its not all the lecturer's complaining but if im right (im probably not) they get 24000 for working 36? is it weeks a year? taking into account that uni's have holidays and such? if thats right i think that the AUT are just being a bit too wankerish.

 

[Rubber Bullets]

OK I can only speak for one University, which may not be entirely representative, and also for the NHS as I have experience in both.

Whilst it is clearly possible to get a lecturer post without a PhD it is only in extremely unusual circumstances, at least at Exeter uni, I don't know about other places. My colleague was able to start lecturing on our course, simply because it was brand new they wouldn't have got anyone otherwise. She still had to agree to undertake a doctorate and has been trying to do this at the same time as teaching full time and writing an entire course. She has had a handful of days holiday in the last 2 years.

Lecturers are employees of the University, which is run as a business. Why would you assume that just because students are only there for 36 weeks a year that lecturers would also be? Lecturers have to pay their way and the way that they do this is through research. That is where the real money is, and teh lecturers at Exeter are constantly required to be producing international quality research or writitng books, in order to keep their jobs. There is a national audit of research being done this year and next and every single lecturer has a minimum number of papers that have to have been published, only in certain journals, to qualify to keep their jobs.

Xane, your point about doctors being worth every penny of their 100k? Fucking right, they take life changing decisions every day, and have incredibly stressful jobs, they are indeed worth it, but when has the actual worth of a job been reflected in the pay? Even the big money that doctors earn is dwarfed by obscene amounts in the private sector, or worse professional sport, it's not a fair comparison.

The better comparison is this:

A radiographer trains for 3 years to get a degree, they start on 19K and can easily work out of hours to take that up by 6k-8k a year. That would be at the age of 21 or 22.

A lecturer will have trained for 10 years to start on 24k, and will still have to work outside of normal hours for no extra pay. That's by the age of 28 at the earliest.

Me? I'm giving up the lecturing that I have been doing, and going back to the NHS full time. It is less stress, less work and more money and I never thought I'd say that about any job in the health service.

RB

 

[DaGaffer]

Of course, nothing is as life threatening as giving out the wrong mark in a paper is it ? I mean, the stress of your average lecturer must knock the hundreds of medical decisions that doctors and nurses make on a daily basis into a cocked hat.

They must think they are worth every penny.

I don't think anyone is saying pay college lecturers £100 grand. The problem with lecturer pay at the moment is that its now too low to attract people from outside with relevant experience into lecturing. When I was at Uni, the best lecturers were the ones with real world experience of the subjects they were teaching. None of those lecturers left industry and came into lecturing for the money, but at the same time I'd guess most of them took a relatively modest cut in pay. Now, the pay gap for...example, a 40 year old Marketing exec to come and teach a degree business studies course would be somewhere between a 50% and 150% cut in pay! Ditto an engineer or IT manager.

For academic subjects this may be moot, but for vocational subjects (and lets face it that's the majority of degree courses) do we really want our students to be taught exclusively by people who've come straight from college themselves, with no practical experience? Because on those pay scales they will be the only people able to consider it.

 

[xane]

Xane, your point about doctors being worth every penny of their 100k? Fucking right, they take life changing decisions every day, and have incredibly stressful jobs, they are indeed worth it, but when has the actual worth of a job been reflected in the pay? Even the big money that doctors earn is dwarfed by obscene amounts in the private sector, or worse professional sport, it's not a fair comparison.

Agreed, but that was my point and still, comparing a lecturer to a doctor is obscene.

You might be happy with going back to the NHS, perhaps you are content and confident with the kind of decisions you have to make, and good for you, the country needs more people like you, in these days of litigation madness it takes someone with balls to go out there.

But a lecturer ? In what possible instance could they ever be pulled up for litigation ?

 

[xane]

The problem with lecturer pay at the moment is that its now too low to attract people from outside with relevant experience into lecturing.

Low birth rates mean that primary school rolls have been dropping for years, there is a constant decline in the number of students entering the education system at the beginning and this will ultimately lead to a decline further up the chain and into higher education, consequently you don't need more lecturers.

Immigration helps slightly, with children of immigrants becoming an increasing higher proportion of the lower and middle education numbers, and with foreign students topping up the higher education numbers. As immigration is a hot political potato right now, I doubt we will see this increase.

Artificial education increases have come from encouraging students to stay on beyond 16 to the point where it is almost mandatory, the ever increasing popularity of the "gap year", and manipulating pass grades that make more students eligible for higher education in the first place.

On top of that you have a number of "sociology" style courses, ones that bear little resemblance to real-world qualifications. By actually making it de rigueur to get whatever degree you find easiest to do rather than a qualification to match the industry you want to seek a career in, you simply force students to educate themselves for longer and longer, with no real benefit.

Even with the immigration, foreigners and artifical top-ups, we are not building dozens of universities, because we are just keeping level numbers. The truth is, we don't need as much higher education facilities in this country, the demographics are dictating that.

And even more painful is that no politician is going to have the balls to start proposing we close or merge universities, that is political suicide, even though it might be right. Education is going to get downgraded, probably by the back door, by introducing PFI style arrangements between higher education and industry and letting market forces reduce the supply along with the demand.

That's probably why lecturers are not being encouraged, they simply don't need them.

 

[DaGaffer]

Demographics will have reduce the need for lecturers, agreed. But that's not my argument, its not the number, but the type of lecturer we need to be worried about. Primary and secondary level teaching has already become a realm of teachers who have never done anything but teach, and this isn't a good thing. To repeat this at the higher education level would be even worse.

 

[Rubber Bullets]

But a lecturer ? In what possible instance could they ever be pulled up for litigation ?

You're right, it is almost impossible to conceive of that situation, )though in todays society I bet someone would find a way) but that is not the only relevant point. If it were doctors would earn more than anyone else in the country, with other frequently sued careers following.

There is no nice simple equation for working out wages in this or any other country, except perhaps that people are generally paid the smallest amount the employer can get away with.

Factors such as length and level of education, experience and luck all play their part, as has having a powerful union at times in our history. The AUT is a particularly weak union, most lecturers would far rather not take any sort of industrial action, but the results of this are apparent now.

The comparison between doctors and lecturers was entirely valid simply because 10 years ago their pay was similar for equal length, and depth, training and now they are poles apart.

I also have to say that litigation is very common in the NHS and not as bad as you may think for the individual concerned. Most of the consultants I know have had law suits against them, it is a fact of life. They have professional cover and as long as they are good at their job, and most are, then they have little to fear.

Whilst on the subject of doctors pay:

I am one of the least qualified, least skilled and lowliest paid doctors in my hospital. My days are spent searching for missing heaps of patient notes, running errands and chasing up blood test results. I am a ‘junior house officer’, a useful but dispensable cog in a vast machine. Despite my humble position I am paid a whopping £37,000 a year.

If I became a consultant the taxpayer would be sending me home with at about £90,000. Were I to prefer a nine-‘til-five job as a GP then I would be raking in a fat £100,000, more if I played the system well.

Taken from here

I have to say that he is not actually amongst the lowest of the doctor grades but one above that, but he would certainly have been able to attain that level at or even before an academic could have got a PhD and a lecturer post.

And just on last thing

the country needs more people like you, in these days of litigation madness it takes someone with balls to go out there.

Thanks you

RB