Free Speech

opticle

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I'm fairly converted and anything Rowan Atkinson says must be true and awesome :)
 

Raven

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On the same note people should be allowed to speak up when someone (ie Frankie Boyle) says something retarded.
 

Gwadien

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On the same note people should be allowed to speak up when someone (ie Frankie Boyle) says something retarded.
But there's a difference between the Media saying something and an individual saying something, the Media have a responsibility to use their 'powers' properly, and not potentially ruining peoples careers by throwing around false allegations.
 

old.Tohtori

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Freedom of speech is an illusion, probably invented by the government itself to lul people into thinking they have freedoms. I'm quite sure the powers that be are not thinking "how could we turn the ret of the world as free as the internet has been", but instead "How can we control speech on internet like we do otherwise?"

There is no freedom of speech, never has been.
 

Scouse

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On the same note people should be allowed to speak up when someone (ie Frankie Boyle) says something retarded.

Of course. That was never up for debate.

Frankie gets to say retarded stuff. Retards are allowed to have a pop at him for it. No cops involved.

It's all good.
 

Nate

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It is ridiculous what they arrested those people for and I hope the law is changed to stop Police abusing it, while they do this are they not creating more paperwork which if I remember correctly was one of their main gripes about the job a few years ago?

I suppose one problem is that where the more serious unsociable views were aired previously in a small group in the pub or outside smoking with colleagues there is now a much more open and accessible part of the world which people seem to think it's fine to say whatever they like. The problem is, the people they aim this joke towards will be able to view it whereas it was behind closed doors before. Maybe the poster doesn't realise how wide reaching they are with the power of social media. Ignorant to the fact what they post can be seen by anyone, anywhere. Or maybe they just don't care..thinking they're behind a screen and no one can see their face so they are anonymous.
 

Scouse

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people seem to think it's fine to say whatever they like

It is fine to say whatever you like. Even if that view is "I hate coons".

Then everyone else gets to call you a "massive racist cunt" and women are free to stop sleeping with you because of it.


Well, by "is" I mean "used to be" :(
 

SilverHood

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I saw this a few days ago, and I agree totally with what he is saying, it's gone way too far.
 

Killswitch

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It's such a nuanced issue. I have the right to free speech (in theory) and I do not have (nor do I want) the right to not be offended. Mockery is a tool, one which Frankie Boyle makes use of in his own, somewhat extreme way. Then again, do I have the right to endanger a person or group of people through speech ("hate" speech) or the right to attempt to destroy someone's career/life (false accusations or slander)? In theory if I was to call Scouse a "massive racist cunt" that would be fine and he could be offended or not as he saw fit. But if I told 10,000 people that he was a "massive racist cunt" and he lost his job, got his house burned down or his family harassed, is that fine?

Balancing the right to freedom of expression with other basic rights is hard and is done in the context of the society we live in. While legislation to curtail certain kinds of speech is offensive to many people, the alternative is probably worse. In a society like China or Iran, maybe the balance is too far to one side and perhaps in other countries it's too far the other way.
 

rynnor

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Free speech will always be a balancing act - its healthy when you have people on either side of it complaining - its when the complaints stop that you have truly lost it.
 

mr.Blacky

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It is fine to say whatever you like.
Tell that to a parent who lost their kid, because the kid killed her/him self because some person decided to bully that person.
What is more important? People's right to say what they want or people's right to live free of harassment?
At what point does one right give away to another? Not that I think there is a free speech thing in most European countries laws.
 

Scouse

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Tell that to a parent who lost their kid, because the kid killed her/him self because some person decided to bully that person.

No. I wouldn't say that. It'd be rubbing salt in the wound - and I wouldn't want to do that.

However, I wouldn't let that parent's grief be the arbiter of what should and shouldn't be said - any more than I'd let my mother dictate traffic laws after my father was killed in a road accident.

Grieving people do not make sensible decisions for the masses - and their opinions are compromised by emotion.

What is more important? People's right to say what they want or people's right to live free of harassment?

Easy one this: People's right to say what they want.

At what point does one right give away to another? Not that I think there is a free speech thing in most European countries laws.

They don't. They clash. And they should do.

There's no such thing as an "easy" life...
 

mr.Blacky

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Not grieving parent but the kid that died? Does that kid have no rights? Or the ones that did the harassment and have to live with it?
I dont want to go with the pro-life argument but life is more important then your right to insult/torment someone. Sometimes the strong have to defend the weak and if the strong do not do that then the law should step in.
 

Cadelin

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Tell that to a parent who lost their kid, because the kid killed her/him self because some person decided to bully that person.
What is more important? People's right to say what they want or people's right to live free of harassment?
At what point does one right give away to another? Not that I think there is a free speech thing in most European countries laws.

Harassment is already a crime. Don't confuse the right to say something with a right to force that down someone's throat.
 

mr.Blacky

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Cadelin for certain countries that is the case, but as I understand Scouse (correct me if wrong) he is stating that harassment should not be illegal.
My position is that free speech is good until it reaches harassment and bullying. While there are people who say that free speech should not be limited by anything.
 

opticle

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What mr.Blacky said. Like I said before, there are limits to what is acceptable through free speech.

Assault doesn't only have to be physical. You can cause people incredible psychological damage through harassment and bullying and blanket OMFG FREE SPEECH should not be used to protect people who do that to others.
 

Cadelin

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Cadelin for certain countries that is the case, but as I understand Scouse (correct me if wrong) he is stating that harassment should not be illegal.
My position is that free speech is good until it reaches harassment and bullying. While there are people who say that free speech should not be limited by anything.

Scouse hasn't said anything about harassment. I certainly didn't feel that was what he was saying.

Your argument doesn't really make sense. For example:
If I were to bombard someone with unpleasant/threatening messages, this would be harassment and the police could do something about it. But similarly, if I bombarded someone with nice messages that would still be harassment and illegal. That is nothing to do with freedom of speech, the words I said were not the problem and banning me from saying certain things doesn't fix anything.

As I said before you have a right to say what you like, but you don't have a right to force others to listen.
 

Scouse

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Yup, Cadelin.

Harrassment and freedom of speech are different things.

You should never have the freedom from hearing things "you don't like" though. Which is why anti-war protesting at cenotaphs, even during parades, is totally fine by me.

Other people have other opinions from me. I would never want to ban them - even if their opinion is to ban me expressing my opinion - or silence them. I want to be able to argue my point freely with them - no matter what my point of view is.

Life without freedom of expression is no life at all.
 

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