For all minstrels.

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Verena

Guest
Few days ago I was sitting sorta afk at the waterline at the gobs in lyonesse and it amazed me that there's so many minstrels out there who have no idea how to play their class.

I was watching a group of all lvl35+ with 2 minstrels getting wiped out 4 times in a row on a normal pull at the gobs. It's even gotten so bad that there's groups out there who've had such bad experiences with minstrels that they don't even want the minstrel to be the main CC and prefer a theurg 5 levels lower then me to use his AE root. It only takes a few pulls to show them that I'm the best CC class out there for normal pulls. (tanglers not included cause we don't have AE)

I've seen dozens of minstrels standing right next to the healers playing his power song and fail to mezz the incoming mobs time after time.

A well played minstrel is the king of CC, for a couple of reasons. We can move while casting, we wear chain, we have an insta stun for when mez resists and we have speedsong.

A normal pull for every minstrel out there should go like this.

Speedsong on, walk alongside the puller and once you know he's gonna pull use /assist to get his target. Just before the mob comes into mez range switch to flute and start walking backwards(This gives you the longest lasting speedsong pulse). Start your mez song on the pulled mob and once the song is started switch to the next closest inc. mob(you can switch targets long before the song ends thus saving lots of time). Once song starts switch to next mob again and mez again if you have a 4pull or leave it if it's a 3 pull. When you're doing deep purples it might be better to wait with switching targets untill you're sure you have no resists. Everyone I've grouped with at the gobs knows that I'm the king of CC there and make a autopull go by without breaking a sweat.

I didn't play my minstrel for 2 days and when I got back online I got dozens of invites from people begging me to come into their group and do the CC at the gobs, cause there's so many crappy minstrels out there. All I heard was death here, death there all cause the minstrel acted like a powersong monkey and all they did was bang that drum and stand next to the healer all the way in the back.


I'd though I'd write this post and add some off the links where I learned to play my class well.

http://www.kungfugeek.com/~powersong/

This is probably the best site out there AFAIK and it's a good guide to learn you some of the basics of playing a minstrel. They also have a forum but that's not as much used as the one I posted below.

http://pub34.ezboard.com/fbardsofcamelotfrm13

Great forum of the BardsofCamelot where a lot of minstrels gather and share their experiences.

A well played minstrel is not a boring powersong drummer, but a class who makes it if a group will live or die on every pull. There's nothing more rewarding that having a very hard pull go very well time after time. Don't just let people tell you to play your powersong and STFU. Don't let them tell you that a mage who dies in 2 hits does CC better then you. Show them what it's like to have a good minstrel in the group to a point where they'll never want it any different.

Maybe I made it sound that every minstrel on Prydwen sucks but that's not what I meant. There's plenty of good minstrels out there but the bad apples ruin it for us.

The best compliment I can get is, if people ask me if I have AE mez after a pull of 4 and all of them are mezzed. Take pride in your class and show them what you're worth.

1.46 will only makes it easier for us cause our mez range will finally be changed to 1500 instead of 1000.
 
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old.Hendrick

Guest
May be an idea to put this on the newbie section as well. I think that part of the boards could use a few more guides.
 
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old.Gombur Glodson

Guest
if you have a sorc or a theurg there is no need for a minstrel to do CC unless something goes wrong.
and when you get to tanglers you only have need for CC if you dont have a sorc and only one rooter, other than that we are drumwhores
 
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old.HiredGoon

Guest
Sorcs is KING of CC. they might not have stun and chain, but again, a proper specced CC sorc, dont fail a mezz :)
 
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old.linnet

Guest
Gombur is right

If you have someone who can root in the group, work with them. No sense in playing the hero just to show off your elite flute skills if there is a way that's safer for everyone.

I usually get the theurgist to root first, then I pick up any that resist before they get to him, and I can wander up and remez the rooted ones if/when the root is about to break. Works fine with a cabalist too, and if you have a sorcerer with you, let them do their thang (again, I usually watch for the resists to try to keep them alive with a well timed stun, mez, or DD shout -- you have to ask people not to quickcast if you are doing this, which does require some trust.)



Lin
 
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old.Gombur Glodson

Guest
if we have no sorc in the group but we have a theurg, the theurg usually ae roots and I start mezzing like crazy, if there is a sorc I play powersong and do nukes
 
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SFXman

Guest
True that a sorc is the king/queen of mezzing but a minstrel is damn useful in this area of expertise aswell.
 
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old.linnet

Guest
When is a minstrel better than a sorcerer

Often better in a normal pull, especially if you are in an auto situation, because the chainmail means we are less likely to go down in one or two blows leaving the group without any CC.

Also, at higher levels, most minstrels will spec instruments higher than a sorcerer would spec mind. It's a bit flaky as to which stats really affect the resist rate but assuming equal levels, the chances are that the minstrel will have fewer resists.

Also better for just looking cool while mezzing and charming on the run :)


ps. Was going to add, "Yep, we found that we can do tanglers with AE root and a minstrel too :) " Great minds etc.
 
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Verena

Guest
Glad there's dozens of sorc out there. They're freakin everywhere. [/sarcasm]

Offcourse I'm not saying that the minstrel is the only CC class, but once you have to choose between a theurg's root or a minstrels mez the choice shouldn't be too hard.

Let's take telamons/pikeman as an example, if 3 come no root will last long enough cause they takes ages to kill. Offcourse a well played theurg can work together with a minst very well but when you get one of those triggerhappy theurg who start rooting every mez of you 10sec after your mez landed it can get quitte annoying.

At the trees a caster mezzing is gonna die a lot, those doublehits take them down before the healer can target them on their miniscreen. I'd take a mez over a root everytime of the day, problem with AE root/mez is that if resisted the caster =dead. They're all gonna go after the rooter at once.

A sorc has no way to get a resisted mob of him other then using their QC and there are probably other mobs incomming too. Offcourse if there would be that many sorcerers it be easier but I've never come across that many. Below level40 sorc are indeed the main CC's, but after level40 and especially at the trees the minstrel will take that role IMO.
 
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old.Gombur Glodson

Guest
try to do tanglers with minstrel as the only CC and then come back and say that minstrel is the best CC there
 
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old.Gronau

Guest
Verena said //Let's take telamons/pikeman as an example, if 3 come no root will last long enough //


I am regularly the main CC for our guild groups and I always use my roots on these mobs.
My root lasts for 1 minute, and then I can either aoe mez for a further 23 seconds or root them again for 30 seconds.

If you cant kill a telemon in a minute and a half then you shouldn't be in Lyonesse in the first place (thats not aimed at you Verena, thats everyone in general)

But anyway, back to the minstrel bit - Im always very very happy to have a minstrel that knows how to mez, stun, mez in my group, as if my root is resisted or broken then the minstrel makes the perfect back-up.
They can also move whilst mezzing and thats another advantage over the Theurgist too.
 
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old.linnet

Guest
durations

You do realise that the single person root duration is about the same length as our mez with a decent (yellow) flute?

Anyway, I'm not trying to argue, just saying what we've found to work best. The only thing I will say is that where you have a pull such as pikemen or pygmies where they have a long run-up, root is just as good as mez (as long as they are rooted out of melee range). In a dungeon, or anywhere the mobs will be within melee range, it really has to be mez.

Not sure why you don't want the sorcerer to do the one thing he is absolutely primo at, though. (Just because they are rare doesn't mean you shouldn't let them do anything if you are lucky enough to persuade one into your group.)



Lin
 
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old.Gronau

Guest
argghh Linnet, you answered my post whilst I was editing it!
Read it again, I'm being much nicer to Minstrels in it now!

It would always be the highlight of my evening to have a Minstrel of your Calibre in my group Linnet

<looks over shoulder to see if Sru is listening>
 
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old.linnet

Guest
<giggle>

Gronau, I think you are great. You didn't mention powersong even once :)


(And if you guys do need a mezzer and healer for a Dartmoor run at any time, let me & Nim know.)




Lin
 
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Verena

Guest
Originally posted by Gombur Glodson
try to do tanglers with minstrel as the only CC and then come back and say that minstrel is the best CC there

Ahem...

the best CC class out there for normal pulls. (tanglers not included cause we don't have AE)

And if you feel happy playing your drums then by all means play em as much as you like but I rather take on a bit more active role. I rather have the Theurgist nuke a bit more instead of wasting time/power on rooting while there's a minstrel in the group.

I've seen it numerous times that the moment the theurgist resists on his root that the whole fight is messy even ending up in multiple deaths sometimes.
 
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Verena

Guest
Originally posted by Gronau
Verena said //Let's take telamons/pikeman as an example, if 3 come no root will last long enough //


I am regularly the main CC for our guild groups and I always use my roots on these mobs.
My root lasts for 1 minute, and then I can either aoe mez for a further 23 seconds or root them again for 30 seconds.

If you cant kill a telemon in a minute and a half then you shouldn't be in Lyonesse in the first place (thats not aimed at you Verena, thats everyone in general)


The only time I do telemons is when we don't have a full group or are missing some key members to take on something harder. So yes it can take a long time to kill the first and usually the root is gonna break on both the 2nd and 3rd mob on the same time. Lucky for us the root isn't on the same sleep timer yet in our version but once they are it will half other sleep spells duration too.

My point is that if you got 1 resist on a telamon and it comes for you that you're gonna be eating dirt really fast. I wear chain and these guys hit me like trucks, why risk a death when you know that you have a class build for CC in your group.

Rooting in dungeons sucks even more cause they can still hit someone although they can't move.
 
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old.Gombur Glodson

Guest
the root is AE and minstrels cant mez a tangler pull, im sorry but thats how it is.
root combined with mez is great if you dont have a sorc, but otherwise go ahead and try.
and PS is needed in groups it gives less downtime and makes the wizzos happy
 
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Verena

Guest
Re: durations

Originally posted by linnet
Not sure why you don't want the sorcerer to do the one thing he is absolutely primo at, though. (Just because they are rare doesn't mean you shouldn't let them do anything if you are lucky enough to persuade one into your group.)

Lin

I never said that when you have a sorc in your group that they're not allowed to mez but there's not many sorcs out there.


BUT...

This post wasn't about who mezzes better, its about all those minstrels I see standing in the back next to the healer while they're the main CC.

If you're the main CC your place is upfront next to the puller so you can anticipate to the situation a lot faster. I love sorcs and I love well played theurgists, but there's nothing worse then a wrong played theurg/sorc/minstrel.
 
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old.Gombur Glodson

Guest
cant agree with you more on that one
 
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Verena

Guest
Originally posted by Gombur Glodson
the root is AE and minstrels cant mez a tangler pull, im sorry but thats how it is.
root combined with mez is great if you dont have a sorc, but otherwise go ahead and try.
and PS is needed in groups it gives less downtime and makes the wizzos happy

We replying on the same post or are we talking about something different?

Point me to where I said that we're better at the tanglers? Read my posts again!
 
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old.Gombur Glodson

Guest
doh pardon me for not reading properly.
but as I've stated elsewhere here on BW my brains is porridge from studying for my biology exam
 
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Verena

Guest
Originally posted by Gombur Glodson
doh pardon me for not reading properly.
but as I've stated elsewhere here on BW my brains is porridge from studying for my biology exam

It's that green color i tell ya, makes you feel all wuzzy an stuff.

I played hib for a very long time so I'm used to lotsa green. :p

Goodluck with your exams! :)
 

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