Flawed economy?

[Gahn]

It seems to me that we went from an easy going in game economy to an overrated use of Gold.
Getting 5s for an RvR kill while having to pay 20 at healer for every death seems a bit unbalanced to me and the prices for Talismans skyrocketed (saw a +20 wounds on Ah at 890 g).
I really don't want to have to PvE farm mobs to pay for having a relaxed time in RvR.

 

[Flimgoblin]

why do you need to pay 20s every death? RvR ress sick is gone pretty quick....

Talisman prices are silly, get in the market and make your own.

 

[Grotnob]

Talisman prices are silly, get in the market and make your own.

Tough to do. Decent talismans are an arse to make, and if I put my +19 wounds or whatever talisman up for a reasonable price, arbitrarily 20g for instance, some greedy mook's going to come along, buy it, and slap it back on AH at 200g or so.

The only way producers can counter that behaviour is volume of production. That's just not possible right now.

What's really to blame, though, is WoW. The WoW "Mememememe" mentality which makes people forget that on WAR you're part of a realm, and the realm needs to work together to function effectively. Price gouging doesn't help at all, and if anything encourages people to go to gold sellers, which only makes matters worse.

 

[Flimgoblin]

get in the market and make your own, sell to alliance/guild only

currently talisman demand is waaaaay higher than talisman supply, hence silly prices. As you say it's a pain in the arse to make them - which would be why they're so expensive.

 

[Gahn]

why do you need to pay 20s every death? RvR ress sick is gone pretty quick....

Talisman prices are silly, get in the market and make your own.

Well having to do workarounds basically tells me that i'm right -.-

 

[Grotnob]

Well having to do workarounds basically tells me that i'm right -.-

Had to happen one day

 

[Gahn]

Had to happen one day

I see you are still waiting xD

 

[GReaper]

It seems to me that we went from an easy going in game economy to an overrated use of Gold.
Getting 5s for an RvR kill while having to pay 20 at healer for every death seems a bit unbalanced to me and the prices for Talismans skyrocketed (saw a +20 wounds on Ah at 890 g).
I really don't want to have to PvE farm mobs to pay for having a relaxed time in RvR.

Is easy to obtain gold necessarily bad? It stops people buying from gold sellers if you can buy anything you need with the gold you've already got.

Of course it doesn't help if you've got players selling rare items between each other - as the prices they ask keep on increasing according to the amount of gold available in the economy.

 

[Jalanteriel]

Debuff from being killed from a player only lasts 3 mins so it's not too big penalty to hinter a player much, but just long enough to cause a player to just tha tlittle bit more careful instead of mindless zerging.

Apart from that though, what other use is gold for? The occasional renown gear from merchants, the odd pot or two (and even then you get them dropped in pvp), talismans and guild scrolls/flight paths.

Talismans are pretty much the only gold sink in the game and there's various ways of 'farming' cash in the game. If you want to stay strictly in pvp though, just take up scavenging and start looting the bodies of dead enemy players You can start scavenging players at any skill level at any player rank and most of the items sell well on AH.

Those +19 perma gems are pretty steep in price but they are pretty much the only thing you need money for. I'd settle for the +16 5 day ones. They would last you about month if you play 4 hours a day. Say if you were stacking wounds, for all 5 armour slot and that one jewel slot (only 1 slotted jewel I've seen so far), that's only a stat loss of 18Wounds, or 180hits. Not even half the damage most players deal to you If you stacked Str, say, that's a 18str deference which is just 1.8dps on a tank. Cost wise, they go for about 18-22g on Order side each, so when you put it all into perspective it's not really that bad.

 

[Gahn]

Is easy to obtain gold necessarily bad? It stops people buying from gold sellers if you can buy anything you need with the gold you've already got.

Of course it doesn't help if you've got players selling rare items between each other - as the prices they ask keep on increasing according to the amount of gold available in the economy.

That was my point

 

[Gahn]

Debuff from being killed from a player only lasts 3 mins so it's not too big penalty to hinter a player much, but just long enough to cause a player to just tha tlittle bit more careful instead of mindless zerging.

Apart from that though, what other use is gold for? The occasional renown gear from merchants, the odd pot or two (and even then you get them dropped in pvp), talismans and guild scrolls/flight paths.

Talismans are pretty much the only gold sink in the game and there's various ways of 'farming' cash in the game. If you want to stay strictly in pvp though, just take up scavenging and start looting the bodies of dead enemy players You can start scavenging players at any skill level at any player rank and most of the items sell well on AH.

Those +19 perma gems are pretty steep in price but they are pretty much the only thing you need money for. I'd settle for the +16 5 day ones. They would last you about month if you play 4 hours a day. Say if you were stacking wounds, for all 5 armour slot and that one jewel slot (only 1 slotted jewel I've seen so far), that's only a stat loss of 18Wounds, or 180hits. Not even half the damage most players deal to you If you stacked Str, say, that's a 18str deference which is just 1.8dps on a tank. Cost wise, they go for about 18-22g on Order side each, so when you put it all into perspective it's not really that bad.

That's another thing i can't get over, Spellcrafting in Daoc was the best system imo, you have to fix a Template, pay for a complete sc and then forget it till you have to change template.
At the moment only RvRing is a stalemate (for me at least), cause i solo also and getting zerged, added and rightout possibly losing 10 fights in a row it's the norm.
I know soloing in Daoc i never had money problems cause actually a solo kill would give you WAY more (compared) than what actually you gain from in War.

 

[pikeh]

The economy is fucked for one reason - Bind on Pickup. The worst invention in gaming history (may or may not be an exageration)

 

[Sharkith]

For me the economy and crafting system in WAR is thoroughly underwhelming. They promised us on this very forum all sorts of cool stuff. For me it looks like a very poorly thought out bolt on that is not finished.

They said we were going to be able to make customisable armour and all that and we got nothing even close. It runs totally counter to the spirit of Warhammer and it really is a complete load of shite.

This is one thing I would like to see sorted out a couple of years down the line. They really did let us down on this.

I also agree with you Gahn. There is something not quite right about the underlying economy as a whole it just doesn't work very well.

I dislike the memememe shite of WoW on the whole the economy is a load of jank.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

The various gold dusts are like crack cocaine for Talisman makers. Being a scavenger I keep the alliance addicts as supplied as best I can. Most times we have an alliance talisman maker along on dungeon runs and BoP drops that cannot be used are grabbed by these guys and turned into talismans at the end of the run.

Since most WAR dungeons are fairly short afairs you can do a dungeon run then get out for a decent night's RvR all in the same evening and have a reasonable chance at getting a useful talisman if you need it.

 

[Jenk]

Yeah, because price gouging never happened on DAoC. Everyone had a guildie that would make it at cost. There's your answer..

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Same happens in all MMOs. As in all the other MMOs there are ways around price gouging. I agree though, when you need something quickly (or feel you need something quickly ) then its a whole different ballgame and can be frustrating.

 

[Ctuchik]

. Price gouging doesn't help at all, and if anything encourages people to go to gold sellers, which only makes matters worse.

ut it IS the gold sellers that DOES that crap. or did you think they were camping PQ's or mob camps farming gold that way?

farming the traders is alot easier and alot quicker then just killing mobs to get lots of gold quickly.

wish more MMO's would use Auto Assaults economy.... as in there wasn't any sure gold dropped and stuff but everything was so piss easy to get noone bothered to charge anything for it

ppl were giving away uber items for free lol.

i dont get why there has to be an "economy" in MMO's.

 

[Sharkith]

You have seen no economy until you have seen Eve's economy.

 

[`mongoose]

You have seen no economy until you have seen Eve's economy.

Yeah but then Eve is such a sandbox game. I think it's probably the best mmorpg on the market mechanics wise and one of the worst intuitivity and wise. I love the game - resubbed on the weekend and it is (if anything) getting better.

Warhammer-wise I think the way forwards is for people to gather a team of 6. Scavengers/butchers/salvagers and work together with apothecarys and talisman makers to sort things out. I know in BP we've got 5-6 regular talisman makers who churn out enough talismans to keep us happy. +19's are very rare tho. Very rare indeed.

D

 

[pikeh]

A guildy got a +20 wounds talis from LV yesterday, unless I'm mistaken and it wasn't actually from LV.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Yeah but then Eve is such a sandbox game. I think it's probably the best mmorpg on the market mechanics wise and one of the worst intuitivity and wise. I love the game - resubbed on the weekend and it is (if anything) getting better.

Warhammer-wise I think the way forwards is for people to gather a team of 6. Scavengers/butchers/salvagers and work together with apothecarys and talisman makers to sort things out. I know in BP we've got 5-6 regular talisman makers who churn out enough talismans to keep us happy. +19's are very rare tho. Very rare indeed.

D

eve is more fun to talk about than to play, imo.

 

[Gahn]

A guildy got a +20 wounds talis from LV yesterday, unless I'm mistaken and it wasn't actually from LV.

Btw sry for the zerg 3 vs 1 yday night, would have let you go but didn't noticed till after you died :s

 

[pikeh]

Btw sry for the zerg 3 vs 1 yday night, would have let you go but didn't noticed till after you died :s

Hah, It's okay Was gonna see if you wanted a 1v1 but I think your mates wanted Goblin burgers or smt

 

[Sharkith]

eve is more fun to talk about than to play, imo.

I have to agree there as well, sadly the economy is so good it dictates gameplay. You have depth and immersion but very very poor PvP. It is really only a game you can play according to the backstory.

 

[Gahn]

Hah, It's okay Was gonna see if you wanted a 1v1 but I think your mates wanted Goblin burgers or smt

It had prolly to do to having to run around 30 mins to avoid the Trains of Doom

 

[Fafnir]

Would not suprise me if the "top" Talismans makers are working together to keep prices up. Heard about it in WoW earlier regarding JC, and other crafts, and personally noticed it this weekend when i empited my JC's bank crammed the bank full with gems at 60% price, and i think thoose where over prices, made 8k gold in a few hours, also got a mail sent to each of my chars who put the gems up.

The mail said. I represent 12 of the highest jewelcrafters on this server, we have noticed that during the last 12 hours you've been under cutting us greatly. This have to stop of you will face dire consequence.

I replied, well theese are my gems, i sell them for what i see fit.

2 hours later i recived new mail filled with words i wont repeat here, the said among that they would hunt my account down, hack it and clear it out.

I replied to 6 of the mails that, if you feel this way you might have some spare time to think it over since i'm reporting theese mails i just recived. So reported them, put them on ignore cause they went over from mail to /tell. When i started talking about the threats in /general i got some whispers from some other guys who had faced the same actions. All this just made me laugh, and throw up even more gems for even lower prices.

20.000 gold made saturday/sunday.

 

[Sharkith]

thats comedy value that is!! Time to go into gem making!!

 

[Kami]

Simple truth as with all MMOs is that the people behind the game need to put some serious money-sinks into the game, housing which costs a fortune or some benefit/reward that costs a lot and is time limited. Personally I think they could start by charging more to travel between zones, almost like a tax. Scale it so that it rises each level but at no point is utterly stupid. It'd be a start.

They should also increase the chunk of money taken to place an auction where the item is over a certain amount, at the moment it's very low. Increase it to 10% for items over 100g, 15% for items over 250% etc. Although it wouldn't make them cheaper it would mean more money "vanishing" from the game economy. Inflation in all MMOs is a killer long term.

I'm thinking UO here, prices were just daft after a couple of years, after 10 they're completely insane!

 

[Bugz]

The biggest problem in economics isn't the supply or the demand, it's the attitudes towards them.

 

[Delerium]

TBH i think the economy is fine. The fact that +19/20's are very expensive now is because you need to crit on a purple item to get a purple fragment (2% chance). They are also final end game items which not everyone should have.

In terms of gold generation, it is VERY easy to make through RvR - all of the kill player repeatable quests harness 1.6 gold a quest and then you have a scenario repeatable on top of that for another 0.3.

The economy is fine the way it is, its not encouraging farmers (as you cant really farm purple items as they are mainly just annihilator drops) and the 'uber' items stay uber priced.

Del