Fao - The Biased, So Called "elite" On Excal

[Divinia]

I just have a question, that ill explain so even you can understand.

Everyone knows that the top-players of excal
are always using groups with the most optimal output they can get from
different classes. And everyone of you players are also frequent users
of the word "skill" wich you often use in RVR oriented talk, To make it
clear, most of you think there is skill in daoc fg rvr.. That is ok, but
it is biased of you, to always using the most optimal groupsetups and still
talk about skill. for Example;

1. A full group of very casual players in random armor, manages to beat a so called elite guildgroup, what is it genrally called? the words Luck, Cheat and Adds etc. are often used as excuses.

2. A full group of very dedicated players in a "fotm group", manages to beat a so called elite guildgroup, the words that are used then is often describing a good fight, if it was done without adds, overwhelming numbers..

Number one is then a gimped group that practically pressed "NIGHTMARE" when they chosed difficulty level at the beginning of the game.

while number two is a group that has chosen "Easymode" at the begnning since they refuse to play with anything else than the best players with best gear and play right classes, just to get the upperhand in rvr..

Now you probably say that you need this to be able to compete, but you are also saying that the only reason you play is for the challenge of rvr.. why chose "Easymode" then? where is the challenge of using the absolutely best stuff to beat others..

I understand that what i want to achieve would be practically impossible and stupid, but why are you all so biased?

Why do you all walking around on the clouds thinking there is skill in daoc, thinking there is skill from your group but the only thing you did was to put right classes into a group pressing the right buttons, why do you get so upset when others have chosen to team up against you, since they are also pressing "Easymode" just like you did?


If the things i described dont apply to you, dont bother..

Question asked by Talivar, put on print by Divinia.

DISCLAIMER: EXCUSE MY ENGLISH GRAMMAR MATES

 

[rvn]

why run 100 meters with your legs tied to a 50kg stone? oh and getting upset about getting zerged is pretty pointless, because most ppl need to gank with numbers, since they are to lazy or afk to have any chance.

 

[Loxleyhood]

I knight ye Sir Obvious.

 

[vintervargen]

we dont whine on 2fg random albs.

its either 2fg high rr albs (fc/gol) or 7fg randoms. if they die with 1fg they doesnt come back with 2fg, then 3fg, as a normal person would do, they go 7fg instantly.

 

[Rulke]

if they die with 1fg they doesnt come back with 2fg, then 3fg, as a normal person would do

lol

 

[censi]

problem is winning in daoc is fun and loosing is not fun. Playing to win drives us all (but in differing quantities)

people picking optimum group setups is just a natural thing to do. Its no less unfair than optimising your own toons equipment, its just a collective effort rather than individual.

The real problem is the class/realm imbalance thats always existed on daoc.

I really think midgard has a huge advantage in this game and I wish mythic would do a bit more to level the playing field. Tbh I just dont think they play the game enough to really know. They look at the realms on paper and think its pretty level whereas the reality is way off this.

A good starting point would just be to ask every player to state which realm they though was the most overpowered. The results of that might tell them something.

 

[Vodkafairy]

pressing the right buttons and clicking the right targets is skill isn't it, just that there's an added dimension of equipment and group setups in a game like this

for whatever reason people play this game, most of them will judge others from their own point of view. ie if you prefer fg vs fg fights, and you get outnumbered by so many you have absolutely no chance of winning then it's pretty logical people start whining.. because if you play this game for fg vs fg, and it suddenly becomes impossible, you aren't happy

etc etc, most people don't play daoc to act like moral cowboys with top notch principles who formulate every thing they say politically accurate. or something. people will always be biased for one reason or another

and who cares anyway, find likeminded people and have fun with them.

 

[Divinia]

Dont care at all tho ;o

 

[Flimgoblin]

we dont whine on 2fg random albs.

unless you lose

I wanna see AD running with smite clerics and matter sorcs, NP running with thanes and aug healers (only aug healers... not a single aug healer for celerity with mezz/healing backup but just a single sodding aug healer)

erm gimme a gimped hib class... mentalism mentalists.... they'd be ok and champions I hear they're quite unpopular.

That'd be cool.

 

[duact]

and humberton guard running with 1 nongimped char in their zerg

 

[Archeon]

Even i'll accept that there is a degree of skill involved in running as a fg. Generally speaking there's less margin for error, and if you compared the reaction speeds (i.e. the amount of time it takes for a person to decide on a course of action after they've spotted the enemy) of sombody who runs a dedicated gank-group and sombody whos sitting in a zerg you'll probably find 9/10 times the dedicated guy will be quicker, simply because he has more experience.

Though I do agree with you, I laugh when they whine about zerging - and it makes me sick when I see random Mids trying so desperatly to emulate them, to the point that they refuse to run anything other than the current 'perfect' group (i've seen people kicked from groups for not being the correct spec, when given the choice between a lvl47 Healer and waiting at MPK for another 10mins in the hope that a lvl50 Healer will come along they'd rather wait for 10mins).

Of course, there's very little a person like myself can do about it. Or people who think the same way as I do, I can only hope that when NF comes along the RvR groups/guilds will find their own little spot where they can wtfpwn each other in peace without having any of those 'boring' fights with random's trying to copy them (though really. RvR guilds. What percentage of your RP-dicks is comprised of those randoms you steamroll? Just curious ) - and I can hang around keeps and zerg lots, and not have to worry about looking over my shoulder every 5mins incase some uber-leet guys run over the hill and kill me before I have time to pull down my pants and present my ass for the raping i'm about to recieve.

 

[Rulke]

NP running with thanes and aug healers (only aug healers... not a single aug healer for celerity with mezz/healing backup but just a single sodding aug healer)

Morcai Nolby Pride 50 98,853 57,262 Thane Frostalf None

Fatbelly's thane :x

 

[Zzang]

we recently used a grp with SB and Thane in it, went perfectly, didnt loose any fight, altho didnt kill as fast without the ordinary rm/savage we would have used otherwise.

i for one think skill and teamplay is the basic stone for having a good grp.

ofc u need the classes necessary for playing, you cant make a grp of 8 parry thanes and think you can beat something other then a warderalbgrp.

True that midgard has upper hand in rvr, atleast vs dem hibs. But there is also great difference in the resistance of grps with basicly same classes / rr...

How to explain that some ppl do much better with same tools then others all the time? Luck? Better equipment?
no, more routine, "skill" and teamplay is what you build a group on.

 

[Divinia]

yes ofc, but look during 34546-savage in a group era.. popped guilds that tried to mimic succesfull ones like JH.. normally a grp like that would type /release instantly, but at the state that was back then even those grps could give fair resistance.. skill? hardly

i call it skill when NP is the best group around during all fotm-eras..

 

[Vasconcelos]

we recently used a grp with SB and Thane in it, went perfectly, didnt loose any fight, altho didnt kill as fast without the ordinary rm/savage we would have used otherwise.

i for one think skill and teamplay is the basic stone for having a good grp.

The posibility of feeting 4 seers in a grp also helps a lot

 

[rvn]

unless you lose

I wanna see AD running with smite clerics and matter sorcs, NP running with thanes and aug healers (only aug healers... not a single aug healer for celerity with mezz/healing backup but just a single sodding aug healer)

erm gimme a gimped hib class... mentalism mentalists.... they'd be ok and champions I hear they're quite unpopular.

That'd be cool.

little now and then we make "gimp" grps

had a group with sb,thane,warr,zerk,3healers, shaman wich worked very well didnt have any problem with any group that night

 

[Divinia]

little now and then we make "gimp" grps

had a group with sb,thane,warr,zerk,3healers, shaman wich worked very well didnt have any problem with any group that night

more routine, "skill" and teamplay

possiblity?

 

[vintervargen]

unless you lose

I wanna see AD running with smite clerics and matter sorcs, NP running with thanes and aug healers (only aug healers... not a single aug healer for celerity with mezz/healing backup but just a single sodding aug healer)

erm gimme a gimped hib class... mentalism mentalists.... they'd be ok and champions I hear they're quite unpopular.

That'd be cool.

!info hotlava !

tho if ppl would run a 'fun group', it would be so much harder to fight albs with their uberest cg..

 

[Nalistah]

I smile every time I see the words "skill" and "daoc" in the same sentece.
My 6 year old nephew would be able to compete in this game.

If you still believe there is much skill involved in daoc, then my friend, you have never played a game that requires skill to compete.

Todays daoc = the person with best gear, most artis, most charges up, wins.

 

[Vasconcelos]

I smile every time I see the words "skill" and "daoc" in the same sentece.
My 6 year old nephew would be able to compete in this game.

If you still believe there is much skill involved in daoc, then my friend, you have never played a game that requires skill to compete.

Todays daoc = the person with best gear, most artis, most charges up, wins.

Except if its a full toa'ed rr4 warrior who grapples a cabalist, it rly happened me once

 

[rvn]

ok Nalistah! i guess its all luck/classes/imba whoever beats the other then.... (oh and for stealthers yes it depends _Alot_ of eq and who has actives up)

 

[rvn]

and i could train a monkey to play counter strike, or qw/q3, ut2k4 whatever, but he wont be very good at it i guess.... (alltho noone has trained monkeys for computer games so might be uber )

 

[vintervargen]

I smile every time I see the words "skill" and "daoc" in the same sentece.
My 6 year old nephew would be able to compete in this game.

If you still believe there is much skill involved in daoc, then my friend, you have never played a game that requires skill to compete.

Todays daoc = the person with best gear, most artis, most charges up, wins.

says the shadowblade.

yeah speaking of stealthers its kinda true. group chars = nibbers

 

[Zzang]

I smile every time I see the words "skill" and "daoc" in the same sentece.
My 6 year old nephew would be able to compete in this game.

If you still believe there is much skill involved in daoc, then my friend, you have never played a game that requires skill to compete.

Todays daoc = the person with best gear, most artis, most charges up, wins.

And you, my friend. has never played in a serious grp i guess.

 

[Buffer]

I smile every time I see the words "skill" and "daoc" in the same sentece.
My 6 year old nephew would be able to compete in this game.

If you still believe there is much skill involved in daoc, then my friend, you have never played a game that requires skill to compete.

Todays daoc = the person with best gear, most artis, most charges up, wins.

ofc theres skill involved in daoc
as a skald knowing when to interrupt, chasing a tank who is on a healer and snaring, as a sm knowing when to debuff, when to pbaoe or even slap in a health transfer(one of the best heals in game) that is the skill

I cant play a healer i cant get my head around it, i respect those that can, they have that skill, to care and play that class.

Playing in a set group helps u learn how each reacts, and modify accordingly.

 

[Humo]

boring thread,look at the egos zzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzzzz
so many ppl thinking they are skilled in this game xD

 

[Hellsvip]

If you have fun in daoc then good for you i have fun i like running 8vs8, I would rather run a fully opted fotm setup, Why because winning is far more fun than losing by running the best setups possible you have more chance of winning ergo more fun. Run a non opted setup and win you have loads of fun and laugh but you lose alot more than you win which is not fun. Each to their own.

 

[Vindicator]

little now and then we make "gimp" grps

had a group with sb,thane,warr,zerk,3healers, shaman wich worked very well didnt have any problem with any group that night

You Still had the 4 seer Setup which means for Great support which is all thats really important. The Difference between a Good Group and a Great Group is there Support. You could put 4 rr10 Damage dealers in a grp of rr1-3 healers + shaman who only ding'd 50 recently and they would lose 10/10 Is my guess. A group like Dem hibbies for example is a mixture of Amazing support players and Great Cross Coordinated Damage Dealers.

Im sure that group wasnt so 'gimped' as you make it to be . Non-Fotm would be more correct. The SB was most likely a BG and Thane a Stormlord. Even if they werent it's not important without your excellent Support players you'd be shafted.

Some people say this game takes Skill, Others laugh at that and say it does not. There's Truth on both parts. It does not take skill to press a Style button, or but BG on somebody. But Knowing When to Switch BG, Landing that intial Head on mezz or knowing when to sprint and use your insta etc Does take Routine, practice and knowledge of your Class and your enemy's Class Capabilities. While its hard to call this 'Skill' I would consider it a Form of Skill that somebody has high enough Hand eye Coordination to beat the guy at the other end of there respective roles. Whether thats getting that much needed SH in or keeping 1 of your fellow supp charcs alive with a last ditch heal spam / insta whatever. It's when somebody cant keep up with the Change in direction of the battle that mistakes are made and sooner or later the other side either takes advantage of that or it leads to another mistake which has a domino effect.

We all know there are so many aspects of 'skill' needed to play a character properly. Some people do exceptionally well at knowning when to do something and in what order. Failure to excute what they should do in time means either death for there group / them selfs / or Not killing an enemy which is a mistake and may lead to your groups defeat etc.

The 'Skills' I would list in Daoc would be something like this:
"Team Coordination"
"Battle Field Foresight"
"Battle Field Interpretation"
"Laterial Thinking"
"Fast hand To Eye Coordination"
"Knowning The Limitations of your Group mates"

and Etc .... These would be skills In my own mind but I do understand why ppl do not think this game requires 'skills' as they put it, because they do not think of what actually goes on in the game or a battle whether it be Larger Scale or Solo. The Smaller the battle, The more it relies on game mechanics and items and less on People power xD

 

[ilaya]

ACTUALLY Flimgoblin.. i'll think you'll find that Champions arent as unpopular as u may think.. when i get into a fg and its fg v fg time.. it works.. its when mids wheel out 2-3 fg and albs the same when it doesnt.

get your bloody facts right.

 

[Aeicaan]

unless you lose

I wanna see AD running with smite clerics and matter sorcs, NP running with thanes and aug healers (only aug healers... not a single aug healer for celerity with mezz/healing backup but just a single sodding aug healer)

erm gimme a gimped hib class... mentalism mentalists.... they'd be ok and champions I hear they're quite unpopular.

That'd be cool.

why would ppl be so retarded and run like that? or maybe its just you
that why almost all albs suck so hard, because they have played this game to long and still cant play it with gimp specs and gimp groups