Fao: Goa

[Falcon]

Could you please state your stance and rules in regards to punishing cheaters? The reason I ask this is because, last night I saw in game a known cheater. How do I know he's a cheater? Because our group were the ones who caught him, with both screenshots and logs. The person in question was a necromancer who had been using the pet inside (Note the bold text, I'm not talking the through walls non-bannable cheat, I'm talking about the inside a wall bug that was clearly stated as being punishable on the Camelot-Europe site) a wall completely unhittable bug when it was still around. Now that's fair enough you might say, perhaps GOA just warned him, except for one slight problem, it wasn't the first time he'd been caught and reported. When I asked if anyone knew the player in question on IRC I'd also been told by an E&E that he'd been warned previously by GOA and not only that but other players had also reported him previously, this leaves a few possibilities:
1) GOA don't care about cheaters, everyone may cheat freely with no risk of punishment
2) The person in question was banned for only a temporary period and this period has expired (It's been a couple of months since I last saw them in game to be fair)
3) GOA give more than 2 chances to cheaters before banning them
4) GOA punish cheaters some other way

Which is why, I ask, Kemor or whoever to state what the rules and methods of punishment to cheaters are because I'm really dying to know why on earth a persistant cheater is still in game. What really takes the biscuit is when someone said a few weeks "There's no point reporting cheaters, GOA does nothing anyway" I defended GOA saying "They do, I reported someone with evidence once and they haven't been in game since" - Looks like I was wrong.

If you wish to investigate Kemor (or whoever) I will provide you with the name of the player and see if I still have the screenshots/logs lying around. The most damning evidence was a PBAEr hitting the pet inside a wall with the edge of his PBAE for minimal damage proving the pet was inside the wall (it was AMG, nothing else in sight, obvious that the only place the pet could've been was deep inside the wall).

Thanks,

 

[Whoodoo_RD]

Sounds to me like this happened some time ago, perhaps before GOA posted their official stance on this form of cheating, which should now have been fixed with the LOS fix in the last patch. If this is the case, sorry but its water under the bridge now.

Seems to me your beef is about the LOS bugs, suffered by both Enchanters and Necromancers, who could nuke or lifetap without LOS, and even run a mile away from the actual fight.

Im sure GOA do their best t stop people cheating, however in this case, I think youre not going to get much luck out of us.

 

[bigchief]

Originally posted by Falcon
The most damning evidence was a PBAEr hitting the pet inside a wall with the edge of his PBAE for minimal damage proving the pet was inside the wall (it was AMG, nothing else in sight, obvious that the only place the pet could've been was deep inside the wall).

There are two sides to a wall btw. Leave my pet on the other side many times (can also be hit by a pb there). Also there are times when by standing on certain positions (quite alot of them) on the milegates the pet warps through the floor and into the wall. Its entirely accidental but it can happen.... if the necro in question doesnt notice then it can appear that hes stood there abusing a bug...

 

[Falcon]

It happened only a week after GOA posted on their own news site that this specific exploit was punishable and to report it to Right Now, I'm trying to find out how exactly Right Now dealt with it after we followed the procedures we mentioned. When I originally posted the problem to Right Now I included in my post a quote of their news posting so it was definetely after they had decided their public stance on the issue.

The pet WAS in the wall, AMG was dead and the necro was alone on the top balcony, we checked absolutely everywhere the pet wasn't to be seen, we eventually tried PBAEing along the wall, the pet was inside the wall no doubt about it and as I say it's not the first time this player had been caught and reported. It was a fg of us who were there and caught him also so it's not like it was just me who witnessed it.

My beef isn't about LoS bugs in the slightest, quite where that came from I don't know, it's about a known and blatant re-offending proven cheater going appearingly completely unpunished, whilst at the same time GOA posting publicly about how seriously they take cheating.

Sometimes it's hard to prove cheating and often there's a lot of mis-accusations but this was one very rare case where it was 100% certain and 100% proven to GOA. If I'd wanted to complain about cheating in a situation where it was merely rumours and paranoia fueling it I'd have done it a long time ago in many a suspicious situation but I didn't because I knew full well it could've been just that, paranoia. This time it was proven 100% by not only me but others in my group, and apparently by other players previously, therefore I'm posting this to find out why publicly GOA are so against cheating, but privately seemingly do nothing or at most very little about it.

 

[Jupitus]

Falcon, are you saying that on this most recent sighting the player was cheating again, or just trying to clarify whether he got suspended or banned or whatever?

GOA will not publicise the details of players caught cheating and the action taken, that is their policy, so don't expect a response here. However, it is quite possible that the player could have had a warning followed by a suspension, and if caught again may be banned outright... only GOA will know.

What I can tell you is that the GMs do care alot about the community and about fair play, and they do take action against cheaters where proven. I cannot give examples, just reassure you that they do.

See him cheating again, of course, and report his ass

 

[Whoodoo_RD]

The first post you made had no reference to time scales. Sorry for my confusion there.

This however is a pulic forum for the gamers of the community, and not a place where GOA make any official speeches. Only through RightNow will you get these answers, here you wil only find fellow player flame and waffle through your story.

All I can suggest is to contact RightNow again, asking what resolve was brought, if any, and thats it.

It would be nice to know the outcome, but thats between GOA and the player concerned, they wont name and shame them, and often youll not know the outcome until you either dont see them again or bump into them at HMG once more.

 

[Damon_D]

Jup i I think what he was after was , what rulz they punish after..if u get a warning , if you get more than one before getting banned and so on..he was not after details on how the specific scumbag had been punished

 

[Damon_D]

Jup I think what he was after was , what rulz they punish after..if u get a warning , if you get more than one before getting banned and so on..he was not after details on how the specific scumbag had been punished

 

[Falcon]

No they weren't caught cheating again Jup but:

GOA will not publicise the details of players caught cheating and the action taken, that is their policy, so don't expect a response here. However, it is quite possible that the player could have had a warning followed by a suspension, and if caught again may be banned outright... only GOA will know.

Pretty much sums up what I'm trying to find out, I'd have hoped that persistant cheaters, cheaters who have been warned yet still persist to were removed from the game outright, this is apparently not the case, if it is a 3 strikes and you're out rule then that's fair enough it's GOA's choice and we have to live by that, although personally I think it's silly to say that someone could go round using radar or something for months safely until they get caught, then do it for months before getting caught again if they don't mind a short suspension before having to give up with cheating totally. They should deduct a percentage of realm points or some such from people caught cheating at least so that cheating offers no benefits whatsoever and if anything can risk what players gained legitametely as punishment for doing so.

The reason I'm a little loathe to ask Right Now again is I've previously had a few incompetent answers on other issues, and I fear that perhaps anything posted to Right Now will be simply covered up, which is why I'd much prefer to see an officialy stance where everyone can see it so that GOA can't pretend they never claimed something.

The only way to prevent cheating is to come down hard on it (I understand giving them one chance, because some may not realise they're cheating with some exploits, like this one, but a 3rd chance just seems far too lenient imo) and events like this don't prevent cheating, they encourage it if a player knows he can get away for a long while scot-free doing so.

 

[Jupitus]

I don't think GOA will tell you, whether you post here or use RightNow. I think they allow a fair degree of GM discretion and publishing strict rules about how they implement their policy only opens them up to future criticism that the GM's are inconsistent.

For example, taking your case and assuming it was actually done by 2 players, A and then B:

GOA GM: Player A, you have been caught abusing the in wall bug - what have you got to say for yourself?

Player A: I am the r0xx0r, fuck you GOA, I can do what I like!

GOA GM: Banned.


GOA GM: Player B, you have been caught abusing the in wall bug - what have you got to say for yourself?

Player B: Sorry GM, sir, I got carried away. I knew I shouldn't do it and I will take my punishment. I hope you don't ban me, and if I am able to carry on playing I promise it won't happen again. Sorry again.

GOA GM: Well on this occasion I will give you a suspension, but if your name comes up again expect to be kicked for good. Bye for now.

Now then... I may be taking it to extremes, but clearly there is a very strong case for the GM actions in each case, right? If though, GOA had published a very strict guide as to how punishments will be handled Player A would be jumping up and down about how unfairly he was treated.

On the English servers we are blessed with 2 great GMs who love the community and game they serve and work extremely hard for the players, whether it is in nasty stuff like cheaters or nicer stuff like events. Trust me, they know what they are doing.

 

[hercules-df]

dont think bug abusers should be whooped too badly, i mean how many of us have used the ones inside barrows to get quickly to bind point.

Its all the radar users who should get raped by GOA. But if they did that Midgard would end up with less population than hib

 

[Shike]

Originally posted by hercules-df
dont think bug abusers should be whooped too badly, i mean how many of us have used the ones inside barrows to get quickly to bind point.

Its all the radar users who should get raped by GOA. But if they did that Midgard would end up with less population than hib

eh?

kinda harsch to judge a whole realm as cheaters innit?

 

[Feac_]

Originally posted by Shike
eh?

kinda harsch to judge a whole realm as cheaters innit?

they should go read the forums of the radar site see how many Infs whining because it cant see through stealth, i really hope GOA if they catch anyone using a radar cheat they do a permanant ban