FAO:Dutch People

[Duryn]

Are the stories about sinterklaas true?

 

[SilverHood]

yeah

 

[Duryn]

Thats some dodgy stuff, lol.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vegy666/sinterklaas.txt
for people that dont know what I am rambling about.

 

[SFXman]

lol

 

[Pixie.Pebr]

Santa KKKlaus?

Good to see Holland holds onto is past as a slavetrading, racist nation.
Not saying all dutch people are racists, but if this Santa Adolf is widely accepted along with his "nigger slaves", then the nation definately pose as a nation that, if not condoning, not even fighting those attitudes.

Makes me want to uke:

 

[slapmesilly..]

ffs, now this is getting me pissed.
I'm dutch, and "Het grote Sinterklaas feest" has NOTHING to do with niggers and slaves!!

I bet the guy who wrote this was just some 12 year old kid trying to look cool by telling all his foreign "friends" how our holidays are, jeez, I bet you 10 euros he just found out sinterklaas was a fake too.

The deal is, these "niggers" as he calls them, are the same as santas elves, but instead of elves they are people with black schmink (sp?) (or paint) on them, and colourfull costumes who climb on the roofs of houses and throw the presents through the chimneys.
Kids love it, and the parents love to see their kids smile.
Everytime of the year when Sinterklaas arrives we get a national broadcast and people get to put their shoe under the chimney (comparable with the socks at christmas).

There is no racist's background in this story, it's just a 3-400 year old tradition, but only the past 10 years it's been a point of discussion that maybe these "pieten" should be coloured blue or pink instead of black. FFS, we don't ask the coloured people in our country to change their traditions now do we?

It's like banning elves from christmas because the "little people" might be offended by them.
Totally rediculous.

Keep the tradition alive, and let the children enjoy it, they seek nothing behind it, why should we?

 

[Duryn]

Actually Nar is 17/18 and is quite mature....

 

[Belsameth]

you ca'n't see that from that chatlog. pathetic.

I totally agree with Slapmesilly on this.
the fact that the "Pieten" are black is even explained because they have to jump down chimney's to deliver presents
yet because racism is a hot topic, their colour is suddenly wrong...*sigh*

Pixie: read up on ALL the facts, before going judgemental on a nations tradition...
failing to do so and imidiatly standing ready to pass judgement, as a true defender of what is moraly acceptible now THAT is uke:

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

All Swedes are drunk dimwits!
A Dane told me that...

Catch my drift?

 

[Stekkerdoos]

what the.. Sinterklaas does not really exist??!!

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Originally posted by Soulcatcher

I totally agree with Slapmesilly on this.
the fact that the "Pieten" are black is even explained because they have to jump down chimney's to deliver presents
yet because racism is a hot topic, their colour is suddenly wrong...*sigh*

Hmmmm... they rather do look like mock-ups of blacks.
I guess it's Holland's colonial history.. back with a vengeance.
*shrug*

But that might be a matter of... perception.

 

[nume]

ok gonna make a long post, shame really this even has to be discussed, and i'm afraid it's not a matter of a short post.

Originally posted by Soulcatcher
yet because racism is a hot topic, their colour is suddenly wrong...*sigh*

Soulcatcher, I know you are decent chap but refering to racism as a "hot topic" and colour being "suddenly wrong" is a terrible. I hope i've misunderstood your comments.
Racism isn't a sudden thing, and just because society in the past didn't recognise racism so widely didn't make it right. In England we used to have similar things in TV and famously Marmalade badges, we banned all of this as we know now that it is wrong.

I can believe it is not intended to offend, i can accept that it is based on a non-race related tradition

BUT

FFS

just look at that picture! If that happened over here in the London there would be a riot, and I'd be part of it. What may have been acceptable hundreds of years ago is not necessarily now as society is more racially diverse.

It may not be done to be offensive but even if it's only 1 black child who gets teased on a playground because of your tradition it is still entirely wrong and should be banned or changed.

 

[old.LandShark]

Originally posted by Duryn
Actually Nar is 17/18 and is quite mature....

a mature person in =BC=? :E

 

[Pixie.Pebr]

Originally posted by Sick-boy
All Swedes are drunk dimwits!
A Dane told me that...

Catch my drift?

Originally posted by Pixie.Pebr
<snip>Not saying all dutch people are racists...</snip>

Read my post?

Originally posted by Soulcatcher
Pixie: read up on ALL the facts, before going judgemental on a nations tradition...
failing to do so and imidiatly standing ready to pass judgement, as a true defender of what is moraly acceptible now THAT is

I'm always at the ready to be proven wrong.
What I said was based upon the original post and the chatlog in it. After reading the new posts here about them being black because going down chimneys, that looks to me like a way to try and make the whole tradition more socially acceptable.
Judging by the picture also posted I still stand by my opinion that these figures are a mocking of black people.
You say the tradition is 3-400 years old? 1600-1700's then?
Fits in nicely with the opinion that reigned (virtually) undisupted then that blacks (and all other races for that matter) are lower beings compared to the white race
Rasicm is rasicm, it doesn't matter what fancy dress you put it in.

As for passing judgement on what is and what is not morally acceptable... I am usually fairly careful with judging both people and opinions, but when I smell rascism I speak out right away.
That kind of view of other people does not deserve any silk-gloves or "it doesn't hurt me, so I will leave it be" or "it is not so serious"-attitudes.
And since the issue seem to raise a lot of feelings, then it is obviously something that needed to be brought up.

Lastly;
defending something with a very clear racist undertone by way of saying it is a tradition does not hold.
If that was the case, then all the southern states in the US should be allowed to have slaves, because they had that for a long time, it is tradition.
It was tradition for noblemen to bring young women who were about to get married into bed, before their future husband was allowed to.
I could rack up a few other traditions as well, but you get my point.

Disclaimer:
If you believe I call all dutch people racists, read my posts again and try and find the place where I stated that. I don't.

 

[Belsameth]

Been thinking long and hard about a reply to show you you're wrong.
I can't tho. or I doubt I can, even if I'd written half a page of text.
guess you must've grown up with it to see you're wrong on the racism part.

 

[Pixie.Pebr]

Nah, you must have grown up with it to NOT see the rasicm in it

Anyways, we could probably discuss this until armageddon come, so we may as well drop it

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Coward! Coward!!
*bites poxy.peter's ankle*

 

[Draeil]

omfg, i'm from holland 2 and no1 gets teased cuz we have "pieten", all the black ppl who are whining about it are the racists imo... btw i'm black 2, u dont hear me whining...

 

[old.Gombur Glodson]

Didnt you just whine? Or was that a complaint?

 

[Draeil]

arf wiseass.. u know what I mean its for "Sinterklaas" hes an uber 1337 guy and yes he excists and its sad ppl have 2 bring in the racial thingy again... even tho they arent even from holland so they don't really know what they're talking about...

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

Originally posted by Darter
arf wiseass.. u know what I mean its for "Sinterklaas" hes an uber 1337 guy and yes he excists and its sad ppl have 2 bring in the racial thingy again... even tho they arent even from holland so they don't really know what they're talking about...

Wha??

 

[Belsameth]

Darter: I'd quit while you're not...well...eeh....too far behind. once Gombear and Sickie arive there's no telling what will happen