EU support and all that

[Flimgoblin]

For anyone with issues/concerns about the way GOA are running/will run WAR in europe Requiel left some comments over on this blog where the author was expressing his doubts:

GOA: Love ‘em or Hate ‘em (or both at the same time)? Book of Grudges

I guess this one is for me.

From the top then with the bullet points and then I’ll waffle for a bit on vaguer points.

* Our relationship with EA Mythic for WAR is designed around the premise that EU customers will get a service that is equal or better than the US operation. Both we and EA Mythic know that this is going to be a huge game and no-one wants to see the European side (which is likely to be the biggest market) get undersold.

* We are looking at extra value that we can add for all of our customers although there will be limits to that due to the fact that we aren’t the developers and our rights are necessarily restricted in that regard. Having said that (and to slightly avoid the question as a lot of the plans are still very speculative) we do intend to focus on providing the highest quality community support that we can. I’m not going to say that EA Mythic’s will be rubbish by comparison but we intend to be 100% focussed on the European community and that’s probably not something that EA Mythic could do if they were running it themselves.

* You’ll be able to contact support in a variety of different ways. There will be 24/7 ingame support, there will be a knowledgebase and FAQs so that you can help yourself and there will be webform based support for people who can’t access the game for any reason. Again, the design is that EU and US players will have the same options and services available to them.

* Once again, this comes back to the central mantra of ‘everything they have, you will have’. It’s an important part of our arrangement with EA Mythic that development is done in parallel with localisation so that we can launch simultaneously on both sides of the Atlantic. For a lot of reasons, that wasn’t possible with DAoC and so both parties wanted to avoid a similar situation arising in WAR. You have to remember that DAoC was not originally designed to be localised, it was written to be an English only game by developers that had little experience with localised projects. WAR on the other hand is specifically designed to make localisation as streamlined as possible.

* Ok those of you with ADD can stop reading now, the rest is probably going to end up as a tl;dr bullet point on WHA or somewhere:

Basically a lot has changed since DAoC launched. We aren’t the same company, EA Mythic aren’t the same company, the MMO market has moved along and - as spinks points out - players have different expectations these days. Back in the day we did what most of the other MMO providers did, we relied on word of mouth advertising with targetted marketing pushes for expansions and other major milestones. WoW changed the rules and by the time that lesson had been learnt, DAoC was an older game that was difficult to get journalists and editors excited about. Three or four times a year I’d go across to the UK to demonstrate the game to the press and gush about whatever the selling point du jour was but a lot of editors wouldn’t touch MMOs that weren’t WoW at that point.

There were a lot of things that we wanted to do for DAoC that we couldn’t do for various reasons - legal reasons, things to do with our contract with Mythic, things to do with French labour laws, things to do with the fact that we were a tiny part of a very large company and so forth. When we talked to EA Mythic about partnering up for WAR, we made sure that all of those restrictions were removed. Six years is a long time and GOA is a very different company now to what we were when we started running DAoC in Europe,

So anyway, enough about DAoC, this is a WAR blog so I’ll get back on topic.

If you want an idea of how seriously we at GOA are taking the success of WAR in Europe consider this:
We started a new company based in Ireland (to get around some of the restrictions I mentioned above) just to run WAR. A lot of us who were in Paris sold our houses and uprooted our lives to go to Dublin and make WAR work properly. We didn’t just say ‘We’ll do better’, we spent a lot of money and put a lot of people to a lot of trouble to make sure that we can do better - before we have a single subscriber and before we’ve made a single Euro from the game.

some discussion over at WHA on this as well:
[EU] - The WAR in Europe - Warhammer Forums

What further clarification do you want?
Will EU players have the same level of service and the same options and opportunities as US players?
Yes.

Will there be a qualitative difference between playing on a US server or an EU one?
No.

Specifics are mostly tied up in operational details that haven't been announced yet by either us or by EA Mythic - number and location of servers, CS policies, subscription options and so forth. You won't get clarification on those until we and EA Mythic are ready to announce them, neither am I going to explain the precise terms of our contract with EA Mythic. Mark Jacobs has said that they will keep oversight of our activities and that is something they have demonstrably been doing so far.

France Télécom is a nationalised company and you're right it won't go bust if we fumble WAR. The people at GOA however want to make WAR a success because it will mean we won't get fired, we won't lose the contract with EA Mythic and we'll be able to continue working on a project that we're all very passionate about. WAR will be our flagship product when it launches and our fortunes are very much bound up with its success. Saying that we have 'no incentive' to succeed is a truly bizarre claim.

The beta ticker on warhammeronline.com shows nearly 750,000 beta signups and at least half of those are European. Clearly the beta signup procedure isn't entirely impossible to negotiate, however, you'll be pleased to know that the final account management system for the website and the game has not yet been implemented. You'll have to wait a little before it's finally unveiled but the system you are using at the moment is not the final design.

 

[Gahn]

Am gonna get back on this after Guild Beta.
Best way to touch the beast ^^

 

[Xandax]

Personally I'm not holding my breath - mostly because we've all seen promises before in development phases of computer games, and many promises not delivered upon.

I hope - truly - that GOA can provide quality service .. heck - just decent service would be acceptable .... this time round but DAoC service still is the only actual example we have, outside promises. And it stands as abysmal - luckily for them the game was good and people stuck around for it.

These experiences from DAoC time couple with the only tangible proof we have right now - the website from GOA - I shudder. Either the website holds no priority at all, or somewhere a designer is laughing on his way to the bank. User unfriendly, slow and sluggish. Heck - I'm still not even sure I'm signed up for the beta.

So I'll hope we have synchronized release and patches and not be months behind again.
A crappy website once more I can live with, because it'll only be used rarely and alternatives will quickly spring up.
In game support is a must now - no way people will be content with a terrible "Right Never" system used in DAOC where you could wait weeks for replies.

So I hope you deliver GOA, but so far - all I see are promises and a crappy website, so don't expect everybody to fall down on their knees in awe because you have delivered nothing yet. But keep up communicating with us and deliver on your promises and you'll win over most of us. Just do not expect praise until you deliver.

 

[Faeldawn]

I think the fact that these questions have to be asked and answered is testament to the fact that GOA are simply not trusted by their former customers.

6 years tells its own story, in 6 years they never improved the customer support, which was arguably the worst in any mmorpg ever, one iota. That tells you all you need to know about how much GOA cared about their DAoC customers.

I for one truly hope they mean what they say, like many, im willing to give them a clean slate for WAR and try to forget the sins of the past. Unfortunately it might all be the usual hot-air and broken promises GOA are famous for. Here's hoping they get it right this time.

 

[Howley]

as stated a lot above me it is true that they fell behind in DAOC but with them setting up a fresh HQ in Dublin, Ireland 'just' for WAR is kinda saying that they are ready to start aiming heavily towards customers and not just design something and leave it there til the game eventually dies off coz of age etc...
As Faeldawn said im gonna give GAO a new blank piece of paper for WAR and hope it all works out well

ps. hope the servers are based in Dublin so that i dont have to deal with Open Transit no more!
tbh i fink OP was the cause of a lot of things GAO got the blame for but ehh... moving on!

 

[Enli]

also take into mind that besides roaming all these boards (fh, wha,...) they're answering/following up lots of questions on our beta boards

so far the service is 1000x better then what i experienced in daoc
ow and requiel can lead a zerg pretty well

 

[Flimgoblin]

ps. hope the servers are based in Dublin so that i dont have to deal with Open Transit no more!
tbh i fink OP was the cause of a lot of things GAO got the blame for but ehh... moving on!

Open Transit own quite a lot of the european backbone so unless you're in dublin yourself it's likely you'll hit their routers

 

[Dervish]

as stated a lot above me it is true that they fell behind in DAOC but with them setting up a fresh HQ in Dublin, Ireland 'just' for WAR is kinda saying that they are ready to start aiming heavily towards customers and not just design something and leave it there til the game eventually dies off coz of age etc...
As Faeldawn said im gonna give GAO a new blank piece of paper for WAR and hope it all works out well

ps. hope the servers are based in Dublin so that i dont have to deal with Open Transit no more!
tbh i fink OP was the cause of a lot of things GAO got the blame for but ehh... moving on!

The game servers will still be in Paris and accessed via Open Transit but administered from Dublin. Actually Open Transit weren't ever as bad as they were painted, sure they had their moments but then what server setup for any game is foolproof?

I see the negetivity here and goodness knows I lived through some rough stuff in DAoC too so I see where peeps are coming from but rather than waiting to see what happens servicewise why don't we actually try to help? I know we will be paying customers and can rightly expect good stuff in return for our cash and that we can't really do a lot practically but at the very least give the guys a chance and look forward to better service rather than waiting for them to wipeout. Only time will tell of course but spend that time looking forward to the game not worrying about how well it will be administered.

 

[Howley]

Open Transit own quite a lot of the european backbone so unless you're in dublin yourself it's likely you'll hit their routers

actually its on my location - Galway, Ireland if u could of guessed at least i dont need to use OP (if they are based here altho dervish doesnt think so)..
Galway is West Coast of Ireland - Dublin East Coast (but Ireland aint so big )

 

[Idris]

I'm definitely going to reserve judgement till the game is up and running. Didn't even really consider getting a US copy. But, that doesn't mean concerns aren't valid!

We'll see, but am at least hopeful.

 

[Xandax]

<snip> but at the very least give the guys a chance and look forward to better service rather than waiting for them to wipeout. Only time will tell of course but spend that time looking forward to the game not worrying about how well it will be administered.

Most people are giving them a chance by playing WAR-EU, and I think all of us want the game and GOA to succeed so we can have a good gaming experience. I do not want another DAOC farce. Then I'm out of here faster then .... well, something very fast.

But I'm not gonna praise GOA or be awed, based on services or promises I've not yet received. I remain critical because so far all I've seen are promises and the shitty website, plus terrible service in DAOC.
I've not seen synchronized releases, in-game support, equal to US websites/information level yet, so once the game is released and we get this promised service-level, I'll be a happy gamer. But until then, I can't (wont) give them credit for it as it is not delivered.

 

[Reno]

The game servers will still be in Paris and accessed via Open Transit but administered from Dublin. Actually Open Transit weren't ever as bad as they were painted, sure they had their moments but then what server setup for any game is foolproof?

Actually Open Transit were exactly as bad as they were painted.
They killed a lot of enjoyment for several weeks and cost daoc quite a few subs at a rather critical point in the game. Sure they improved after that but they still had their moments after that. The major damage had already been done however.

 

[Dervish]

actually its on my location - Galway, Ireland if u could of guessed at least i dont need to use OP (if they are based here altho dervish doesnt think so)..
Galway is West Coast of Ireland - Dublin East Coast (but Ireland aint so big )

Well, check out the last question in this GOA FAQ from EA Mythic: EA Mythic - Warhammer Online.

IainC, perhaps you could clear this up?

 

[Flimgoblin]

actually its on my location - Galway, Ireland if u could of guessed at least i dont need to use OP (if they are based here altho dervish doesnt think so)..
Galway is West Coast of Ireland - Dublin East Coast (but Ireland aint so big )

Ahh close enough so yeah, if they host in a server farm in Galway you'll be really sorted...

Personally I think Edinburgh's the best place for servers.

 

[IainC]

Well, check out the last question in this GOA FAQ from EA Mythic: EA Mythic - Warhammer Online.

IainC, perhaps you could clear this up?

That FAQ is somewhat out of date these days, you'll notice that our FAQ is a little different in that regard.

We aren't ready to announce server locations yet however I can tell you that we will more than likely have servers in multiple locations around Europe.

 

[GReaper]

The problem I think most people have (including myself) is that although GOA are saying how things are going to be different - they still haven't fixed the support situation for DAoC.

It's a bit hard to trust them when their only example of a live running MMORPG still shows typical GOA support. Yes the plans may be different and everyone is moving to Ireland to allow better support, but until the game is released we won't be able to tell what it's like.

 

[Felgar]

I guess DAoC stayed back in France and only WAR left for Ireland...

 

[IainC]

I guess DAoC stayed back in France and only WAR left for Ireland...

Correct. We weren't able to move all operations to Dublin. It's possible that DAoC may be moved over later but there are no plans for it at the moment.

 

[Ctuchik]

. Actually Open Transit weren't ever as bad as they were painted, sure they had their moments but then what server setup for any game is foolproof?

World of Warcraft!!!! oh wait.....


Planetside!!!! damn, no not that either....


EQ2 i'm sure!!! wait, fuck!


ooh ooh ooh, now i have it! AoC!!! oh wait, they had massive problems yesterday....


i want to play the same games the whiners play their servers seems to be alot better then those i play on, even if its the same ones >.<

 

[Downanael]

Biggest problems i had was their very bad customer support and patch delays so hopefully they will fix those,and get rid of that flash website,nobody wants it and it's just strain for everyone.

Not to mention if our account handling is done with flash again,just how secure is it compared to normal way of doing it?

 

[Howley]

That FAQ is somewhat out of date these days, you'll notice that our FAQ is a little different in that regard.

We aren't ready to announce server locations yet however I can tell you that we will more than likely have servers in multiple locations around Europe.

<Crosses Fingers> for one in Dublin

Ahh close enough so yeah, if they host in a server farm in Galway you'll be really sorted...

hmm was that a hillbilly joke?? how cheap!
Galway aint all farms by the by specially not where i live

 

[Dervish]

lol there's a big GOA van down the road emptying a server rack and hardware into an old disused warehouse just down the road from me here in Southampton.

Definite info.

 

[Flimgoblin]

<Crosses Fingers> for one in Dublin



hmm was that a hillbilly joke?? how cheap!
Galway aint all farms by the by specially not where i live

erm... yeah... server farm was meant as a pun yeah! yeah! I did think of that at the time... honest!

take that!

 

[Downanael]

lol there's a big GOA van

They have GOA vans?

 

[Faeldawn]

They have GOA vans?

Yep, it's faster than opentransit

Transit vans anyone? No? Meh

 

[Flimgoblin]

groo...

 

[Enli]

mkay, i'm gonna drink a bit so i might get the jokes in this thread...
nope... try again guys

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

"At the moment there's a normal population dip that we see every year around this time. Despite that, the primetime population is still healthy and we'll keep an eye on it as time goes on."

 

[Downanael]

"At the moment there's a normal population dip that we see every year around this time. Despite that, the primetime population is still healthy and we'll keep an eye on it as time goes on."

How many english speaking players there is left anyhow,20?

 

[ford prefect]

We aren't ready to announce server locations yet however I can tell you that we will more than likely have servers in multiple locations around Europe.

That seems like a good idea in most reguards, but won't that make relyable and timely patching / maintainance considerably more complicated?