Dragon Raid Possibilities

[Inca]

7 animists and a FoP-druid and it dies in 4 mins meights xDDD

If played well nobody dies even and adds are not a problem coz they insta die

Then walk off with all 2-3 skill + 2-3 RA stones and a handful drops and r0x0r the boxor.

Sadly mids lack many ridicolously overpowered pve classes.

 

[Legohelten]

i've been in grp 1-3 and in grp 4 on dragon raids and i must say i find the job in grp 4 to be by far the hardest. not becaurse u cant kill those doggies or the job u have is in anyway very hard. its simply u spend 95% of the time doing nothing but u need to be extremely ready becaurse those doggies are fast fast fast. when u do nothing but stand there its very hard to stay focus. and thats when u miss ur dog. if ure in there with the big dragon its all different, its more fun, u have tons of things to do and focus on.
u can kill the dragon if grp4 messes up but its by no means surtain u will but if grp4 does well chances of having a succesfull dragon raid goes up by alot, seems to me that if grp4 does a perfect job they earned the right to stones as much as anyone. but that just my opinion.

i have no idea if ur idea would work inca but if u try it out im sure u will have the most focused grp4 ever on a dragon raid...grp4 will make or break ur raid (assuming grp1-3 can handle the dragon)

 

[Inca]

i have no idea if ur idea would work inca but if u try it out im sure u will have the most focused grp4 ever on a dragon raid...grp4 will make or break ur raid (assuming grp1-3 can handle the dragon)

I had a feeling that the only way to properly test this would be to try and run one. I think i will wait till the DR fixatation dies down a bit. This week there has (or will be) 3 attempts and the DR and frankly thats more than enough for everyone to get a shot. Personally i always sign up to Blueskys as i have a lot of faith in him and the people he chooses, but others will naturally prefer other raids for timing/personal reasons/class want-need-reward etc....

One thing we all have to remember is the DR set up is pre-TOA, with opt'ed players now have 25 extra on their primary stats, 10% melee/style damage, FoP/Det Node, 25% Heal/Power Bonus'es etc etc, life certainly is a lot easier. If you don't believe me take an opt'ed group on the diamond run in DF and see the rate your sm's blow them away, your warriors block almost anything that can hurt you and your healers/shammies heal with minimum effort and with FoP, everlasting power.

As i don't organise DR's i can't give exact numbers but i am willing to bet Bluesky would tell you that out of the 8 people he picks each weak for group 4, only 2-4 show up, thats like 25-50%, whereas group 1-3 is around 75%, thats a lot of difference and shows that most players simply will not show up for group 4. Ok you can simply punish them by never giving 1-3 spots, but realistically you maybe have to look at the huge difference between the loot for 1-3 and 4.

Moving on the same subject, group 4 are basically penalised for being a less important part of the raid, but i am willing to bet an obersvant and diligant group 4 members works harder than some of the 1-3's, particularly the classes that can get away with it. But how do you judge who works hard and who doesn't?? is a mistake cause of afk? or genuine? its very hard to judge and harder yet to remedy it. 1 other option i haven't hard considered is scrap group 4 in its current form and take a few supp sm's to simply destroy the adds on the mound? Again just an idea, but if the adds were relatively boxed (a simply macro demanding people with agro stick xxxx and box up) sm's could cleave through them in no time. Has the small advantage that the spirit champs could do small amounts of damage to the fat lizard as well? Again just another idea, would prolly suggest them taking their own shammy for buffs/heals etc... I notice in an 8 man group sometimes there isn't room for the last few str/cons on people and that str/con is often the difference between surviving the dragons ae and not.

 

[Zebolt]

plz give me a grp4 spot on your raid :worthy:

 

[limbo]

Played in all 4 groups on Blueskye's dragonraids.

Supp RM in all of em.

As most pvebot rm's specc darkness pretty high after getting 6 second pbt they do have better damageadd then the Shammy, so in g1-3 the rm keeps pbt up, bladeturns peeps with aggro and redos damageadd. All this is really easy stuff. Almost ZzzZz apart from the fact it has to be done under the belly of the dragon (including pbt), and no sticking. So in g1-g3 a runie has to be there on the keyboard all the way and move around, if you dont... Boom PBAE since your pbt is a spell as any, and spells outside meleerange = nono.

In g4 you just stand a fair amount of distance from the opening and lean back in your chair and watch for doggies, when they come you root them (with decent buffs and decent gear it's np at all rooting 3 mobs before they run past). If they are too much for you to handle call for help, if they arent you just drop em with a a few nukes. But basicaly, you can relax.

And if you cant focus while relaxing, if the g4 job is so boring you just happen to go afk or asleep or whatever (some people call it omglagffsetc) then just dont sign up for a dragonraid, or any raid.

And to Bluesky:
Sorry for not coming with Kzanderf as of lately, but my wednesdays got taken for other duties, and Kzan is since respecced.

 

[Aremeriel]

Remember my first DR, Ixo? Not that long ago really.. He he.. Just Dharken, Ixo and me in G4 (I was initially on standby list, but got room in G4 because, as you can see a lot of ppl didn't show up). We were successful. Had 2 dogs come to my exit at one time then. Thank Odin I had my instas.. Mezzed'em and called for help from the thanes.

M8y with all due respect, I during my history of my DRs - haven't seen more than max 2 retrievers coming from an entrance.. must be a slight change that 3 would come.

Was told that on yesterday's DR, 4 retrievers came at same exit at same time.

I've been in G1 without pbt runie (someone had croc ring I think though) which went good. Also, on last DR Lenore LD'd, so left only Zepp and me as healers in G1. Went good that too, although she seemed harder than usual (in addition to messed up grp windows).

I think Inca's idea would be worth testing, but where am I to go then Inca, being pac and all?

 

[Tasslehoff]

7 animists and a FoP-druid and it dies in 4 mins meights xDDD

If played well nobody dies even and adds are not a problem coz they insta die

Then walk off with all 2-3 skill + 2-3 RA stones and a handful drops and r0x0r the boxor.

And this help us excactly how?

And in this case I must say Zeppelin has got a great idea

And good defending of the idea

How is that impossible exactly? Take a rm for instance.. He uses his insta on 1 dog while nuking the 2nd and the 3rd.. hardly impossible ^^

Well, then you would have all the dogs attacking you, how long would you survive that? =p

 

[DaggerElivager]

zzz

thanks for the input there....really useful :touch:

i would like to see your idea work as i think all who attend should get something but then again im not sure how successful your said set up would be

goodluck with it

 

[Zebolt]

Well, then you would have all the dogs attacking you, how long would you survive that? =p

Well I would still have time to kill one and root one on the way in.. I can drop those fellows in 2-3 nukes. And then we have qc root if you get someone on you. Not too hard imo..

And even if all 3 would come to me (which they wouldn't), I could qc root one. 2 yellows don't hit so hard, would have enough time to get help..

 

[Zebolt]

I think Inca's idea would be worth testing, but where am I to go then Inca, being pac and all?

You could fit nicely in grp4

 

[Zebolt]

In g4 you just stand a fair amount of distance from the opening and lean back in your chair and watch for doggies, when they come you root them (with decent buffs and decent gear it's np at all rooting 3 mobs before they run past). If they are too much for you to handle call for help, if they arent you just drop em with a a few nukes. But basicaly, you can relax.

And if you cant focus while relaxing, if the g4 job is so boring you just happen to go afk or asleep or whatever (some people call it omglagffsetc) then just dont sign up for a dragonraid, or any raid.

Thats what I've been talking about.. Thanx for showing me I ain't the only one limbo

 

[Aremeriel]

You could fit nicely in grp4

But but but.... If 4 exit guards and me as one, I'd need help from the others if more than one dog came to my exit. And would take me forever to kill one if only one came..

 

[Zebolt]

But but but.... If 4 exit guards and me as one, I'd need help from the others if more than one dog came to my exit. And would take me forever to kill one if only one came..

Just mezz the turders and spam bg that there is onehundredandfiftyone dogs at SW entrance and one savage will come and one shot them to oblivion

 

[Inca]

Yeah ok i am bored at work and have time to spam threads like this

If you stick with the 4 group set up, what about the people that roll and win uber drops don't get stones?

Every week there is 1-4 truly decent drop, the 70 utility stuff with decent procs/abls etc....

If the people that won these didn't get stones, that would mean pretty much everyone on the raid got stones OR a very good drop. It would also cut the trend of people rolling for whatever they could as they might need the stones, instead of selling the items, again meaning more people walking off the raid with what they wanted, and more people winning items they intend to use.

I think this idea is aimd at Bluesky Again before any1 flames me (seems to be the done thing atm) bare in mind i have a lot of g1-3 characters but not many g4, so this is not for my benefit.

 

[Zebolt]

I don't think ppl would want the drops then, I don't know but I sertanly wouldn't since the dragon drops aren't very good compared to ToA drops and artifact (ie no cap increases etc).

And btw, allmost all chars in grp 1-3 can fit just as good in grp 4 ^^

 

[Bluesky]

hmm Zep intresting idea - another thing for me to chew over - I was gonna reply to this thread with some ideas/thoughts etc but decided I needed to compose something properly and not rushed and then went and forgot about it lol so when i get some time I will put my tuppence in

Zep - im still lol'ing irl at ur pm

 

[Inca]

I don't think ppl would want the drops then, I don't know but I sertanly wouldn't since the dragon drops aren't very good compared to ToA drops and artifact (ie no cap increases etc).

And btw, allmost all chars in grp 1-3 can fit just as good in grp 4 ^^

My aug healer isn't ideal in group 4

As for not wanting the drops, fair enuff group 1-3 choose stones over drops, means the drops can go to group 4.

Cause no matter what any1 says about group 4, if a full respec is 6 plat and an ra respec 2 plat, thats 8 plat, then if an 8 plat dragon weapon drops and is won, thats 16 plat, compared to an 1/8 chance of the stones in group 4. Again i really am only trying to even things up, if group 1-3 don't like the drops i am sure group 4 would (though i doubt this would happen).

 

[Bergast]

Yea Inca, I think that this is actually a good idea... a really good idea. Just look at how many that is rolling for those items on the raids. Anyway there is no harm in trying it on a raid or 2. If someone in G1-G3 winns a lotto fine give them item in exchange for the 2 stones and then lotto the stones in G4.

It's not like that all who joins in on the raid needs those respec stones. Personally if I could get the remains or an item like the nice dragonscale bracelet, I would gladly pass on 2 stones that week. And if I where in G4 and all in G1-G3 wanted there stones I would have a decent chanse of getting a good item or some remains. There wouldn't even be a need for specifying which class to roll for. It's either stones or items, no matter what class. There could still be a specitying list if that is wanted. soo that if only 1 caster item is dropped and there is only 1 person in let's say G4 who specified for caster, then he/she will get it.

The biggest gain for G1-G3 then would be that they can still lotto if they wannt, but they have to know that if they win they will have to give up there respec stones.

The biggest gain for G4 would be that if U are specifying for a class that gets an item drop, U will have increased chans in lotto. And if no items dropped for the class U specified, U would still have a chans to win a nice item that U can sell or give away for some (unmentional) favour.

Hope I made some sence...

 

[Cwini]

I don't think grp4 should get equally many stones for ALOT less work..

That is quite a selfish attitude, one which I dont think you meant. (Leastways I hope not)

Everyone has a roll to perform, wether it be spamming taunt, hitting group heal, pressing BT, waiting and spamming some AE spell to catch the dogs, what ever .. the point is killing the dragon (or any mob for that matter) isnt rocket science.

Regardless of what you actually do, everyone contributes the same thing - TIME.

I have been on 4 DRs now, 3 times in groups 1-3, once in G4. On the occasion I went in G4 I came out with nothing. Admittedly I felt cheated, as I had, like everyone else, donated my personal time in helping kill the dragon.

In the past, for TG raids, you could go week in week out and not recieve a thing .. which as im sure you would agree is unfortunate, and slightly unfair. Hence, for them (I remember from old Blej used to do this), they started to use the DPK system.

Yes its not perfect, but at least if you went for a few weeks and didnt win anything, as each week went by you had more and more chance to win something.

In the long run, everyone eventually got something, and it helped retain the people. No one likes to give 2-3 hours of their time, week in, week out, and get rewarded with just a "thanks".

 

[Deleted member 4013]

That is quite a selfish attitude, one which I dont think you meant. (Leastways I hope not)

Everyone has a roll to perform, wether it be spamming taunt, hitting group heal, pressing BT, waiting and spamming some AE spell to catch the dogs, what ever .. the point is killing the dragon (or any mob for that matter) isnt rocket science.

Regardless of what you actually do, everyone contributes the same thing - TIME.

I have been on 4 DRs now, 3 times in groups 1-3, once in G4. On the occasion I went in G4 I came out with nothing. Admittedly I felt cheated, as I had, like everyone else, donated my personal time in helping kill the dragon.

In the past, for TG raids, you could go week in week out and not recieve a thing .. which as im sure you would agree is unfortunate, and slightly unfair. Hence, for them (I remember from old Blej used to do this), they started to use the DPK system.

Yes its not perfect, but at least if you went for a few weeks and didnt win anything, as each week went by you had more and more chance to win something.

In the long run, everyone eventually got something, and it helped retain the people. No one likes to give 2-3 hours of their time, week in, week out, and get rewarded with just a "thanks".

...About TG. Now even u wouldn't get items from that raid, u still can get MLExp from those mobs, like council ones. Thus the time invested there isn't a total loss.

 

[Inca]

...About TG. Now even u wouldn't get items from that raid, u still can get MLExp from those mobs, like council ones. Thus the time invested there isn't a total loss.

Lets be honest no1 cares about ML xp, maybe a buffbot on like ML8-9 but no1 with their main. Thing with TG is even without silly mods etc... is that if 3fg's go there will likely be over 20 drops including stones, procs/ablatives etcs... so it is very rare that people will come away totally empty handed. Problem with dragon raid is its 25 of each stone, and 1-4 uber drops/remains, with the current system is quite easy for sum1 to come away empty handed.

 

[Zebolt]

My aug healer isn't ideal in group 4

But your skald and sm is

 

[Cwini]

Now even u wouldn't get items from that raid

Why, what have i done ?

This thread was looking at possible ideas on how to fairly distribute the dragon drops ... I merely pick up on Zebolt saying that G4 should not get as many stones as the others by virtue of what G4 does. Imo this is unfair, as regardless of what your roll is, we all pay the same price - TIME.

The best suggestion I have read so far was the one where if you won a dragon drop, you handed back your stones in favour of it. These stones then went to G4 to allow everyone to walk off with something.

Perhaps you could lotto the goodies first, then distribute the stones to whose who are left - I know I would be happy being in G4 if this was implemented.

Naturally, its up to the Raid Leader to set his rules down first - and I guess if you dont like them you dont have to sign up. But I know Blue likes to be fair, so perhaps we might see some adaptation of his loot rules in raids to come.

 

[Zebolt]

The best suggestion I have read so far was the one where if you won a dragon drop, you handed back your stones in favour of it. These stones then went to G4 to allow everyone to walk off with something.

Perhaps you could lotto the goodies first, then distribute the stones to whose who are left - I know I would be happy being in G4 if this was implemented.

Thats a fair idea I guess..

 

[Inca]

But your skald and sm is

Lol neither of my skalds is up to much, there both pretty much alien to TOA and neither even wears a full suit atm, its just a kinda mismatch of stuff.

The SM in a moment of madness i decided to activate GoV, total waste of time/money as he is a pve character AND he already had a decent 5.10 drop vest. Still we all have those moments.

At the end of the day you know if you sign up to a dragon raid there is a chance you will be group 4, now while i appreciate that isn't the best thing loot wise it is extremely frustrating that some turn up willingly, others... don't. Then the cheeky bastards sign up the following week expecting group 1-3 spot the following week.

The only regular DR leader atm is Bluesky who is one of the fairest and best raid leaders i have ever worked with. At the end of the day i have a near 3 figure plat amount, who knows how much value in arti's/rare drops/good rogs spread around my various lads, plus decent kit in storage, frankly the value of a respec stone does not inspire my "greed". I go on the DR cause i really enjoy it, its a good laugh, i enjoy the regulars and in a bit of a selfish way i also like the success. Bluesky is reading everyones ideas on here and is as interested as any1 else in promoting fair raids for all involved and/or interested. With so many good players interested in these raids, there is always too many signing up, yet oddly enough i haven't been on a raid with an 8 man group 4.

All on this thread is just idea's and experience, hopefully designed to provoke thought and interest, while keeping a balance on the raids. If nothing changes i will still be signing up each week and (if picked) attending no matter what group i am in. My "motive" for posting as it were, partly fairness to group 4, and partly cause for the ease of the raid a strong group 4 is helpful, so yeah i would like to see more enthusiasm shown to it.

 

[Cwini]

At the end of the day i have a near 3 figure plat amount, who knows how much value in arti's/rare drops/good rogs spread around my various lads, plus decent kit in storage

:eek2: And I thought I was rich with 4.5p to my name .. good on ya

 

[Zebolt]

Lol neither of my skalds is up to much, there both pretty much alien to TOA and neither even wears a full suit atm, its just a kinda mismatch of stuff.

The SM in a moment of madness i decided to activate GoV, total waste of time/money as he is a pve character AND he already had a decent 5.10 drop vest. Still we all have those moments.

Your chars don't have to be in fully capped ToA suits to be in grp 4, you can wear epic/sc and still handle it as good.

At the end of the day i have a near 3 figure plat amount

No wonder you wanna give away your stones, think of the situation with 1p in your pocket ^^

Ofc I don't wanna be greedy, but if I have a chance of getting money on each raid I would rather have that ofc since I am in great need of the money..

 

[Inca]

Lol i never sell stones, i respec at least one character a week!