Does Theurgists really need Pulsing BT?

[old.Henke888]

An interesting thought... for a Theurgist..

If I have group BT and just click it every 8 sek, isnt that the same as having it pulsing(but with the clicking ofcorse)?

Or does the BT spell also gets stronger when adding points to it?
If not, wouldnt it be better to just manually activate it instead of going to lvl26 for the pulsing BT, and leave the earth when u get the Grp BT and put your spec points into air/ice to get greater nukes?

U know the answer? Im happy if u share it with me

/H

 

[-Wedge-]

Well, look at your mana when you cast group BT every 8 seconds...

And if you cast BT all the time, your pretty much 'useless' for the rest, while a theurgist with PBT can cast other spells (like attack speed debuff, root, DD spells, and sometimes pets)...

So needed, nah you can always solo , but if you like groups.. I'd recommend putting 26 points into earth... After that, its up to you...

But yes, as an (almost) full-ice, I know how you feel

I know I can 'trust' my guild to help me through the tough times (till I can freeze pygmy goblins), but it's hard to get groups otherwise (even though I outdamage tanks 4 levels higher )

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Quoting "Who we really are" off our Guild forum

The Earth Theurgist
The Earth Theurgist’s life is one of ease. Every group wants him, and once he’s in and bladeturn is pulsing, anything he does is a plus. In fact, he could even go AFK for the duration of the hunt, and still the group would fight to keep him in. In the unheard-of time between groups, Theurgists solo easily by summoning entire armies of dirt to pound to death enemies much tougher than the theurgist. As a result, the Earth Theurgist is usually pretty easygoing. If you’re lucky enough to cajole one to enter your group instead of the others, his buffs will make you more effective and his bladeturns will cover up a large number of your blundering mistakes. Just hope he isn’t SO easygoing that he joins, /follows, turns on bladeturn and goes to take a nap.
Typical Quotes:
“What? Sorry? I was AFK.”
“/yell theurgist lfg... oh thanks, never mind, got one”
“I just got my 6 second bladeturn! Watch me melee this monster to death.”
“Guys, I’m not entirely sure, but I THINK an archer is trying to shoot me.”


The Not-Earth Theurgist
If you thought Smite clerics got a chilly reception, wait till the group finds out the theurgist can’t bladeturn. And not only do they hate him, he even hates himself for “speccing wrong.” Yeah, maybe he can mez, but not anything like a sorcerer. Maybe he can nuke, but if they want a nuker they look for a wizard. Their only saving grace is that most people are too polite to push them directly out of the group when learning of their specialty. Their hobbies include sighing and rerolling.
Typical Quotes:
“At 35, I can’t bladeturn yet, but I’m working on it.. should only take 12 more levels”
“God, I wish they’d hurry up and put in respeccing.”
“No, really, manual-cast group bladeturn with serenity and mystic crystal lore is just as
good as pulsing bladeturn! HONEST!”


The sorcerer one is funnier, but will save that for another day ^^

 

[Tigerius]

No PBT Theurgist rivals only no-rejuv Clerics and no-mind Sorcs for most self-gimped char.

If it was up to me all non-PBT Theurgists would have to wear this special tag that would make sure no grueling mistakes are made.
You could like make them all belong to the <ImAGimp> guild, would easily turn up on /who and make the life of a party leader oh so much easier.

Don't begin to scramble over 8 spec levels and talk yourself into it being an acceptable replacement. Spec26 Earth and take it from there, it will still allow you one other strong specline.

 

[old.¥ØÐÄ]

Imo lvling earth just for pbt is self gimping..

everybody seems to try make there chars as much RVR essential as they can . and imo pbt is mainly helping others lvl easier and helping get yourself a grp .

so imo if you go earth JUST for pbt is a waste cos imo it is gimping yourself in RVR . because u wont have the higher lvl spells in ice/air .

im atm making myself a pure air turg , and when/if i get high enuff for minin dings ill spec a few points in earth for self or grp bt , thus my pets/nukes/mezz will be stronger than the turgs that have gone for pbt .

sure i wont find it easy to find grps . but im in a good guild who im sure will gladly group me into guild grps .

it seems to me clerics/sorcs/turgs are the chars everybody else "tanks/wizzys/rouges" want us to make our chars to help them . clerics are expected to go rejuve "gimping themself for rvr" sorcs are expected to go the route of mezz " gimping solo abilty in rvr" and same with turgs . all other chars can make there chars purely for rvr . whilst we struggle to get grps if we try create our chars for max ability of solo i rvr .

sure some folks may prefer the group friendly roll and go full juve/earth/mind but i personally prefer to earn my OWN rp's and not leech them from others . which is why i see making a char to suit other chars pve ability easier, is gimping myself

 

[Flimgoblin]

Do what you want to do with your character

You'll just find it almost as hard to get a group as a cabalist...

helps to have a good /friends list in that case

 

[Tigerius]

I agree with your basic idea, you shouldn't do what others tell you to do just because it helps them. For instance it's not always a good idea for a Cleric to go too high Enhance, even though it's definately appreciated by others. However being useful to your party should be an aim for everyone, making the choice not to is self-gimping and asking not to get accepted in a party. Rouges don't have any choice like that, you however have chosen to not be very useful to your own party and as such have no real right to complain about not getting liked in them.

Taking a secondary spec to 26 isn't too much for a useful ability, PvE and RvR. It still allows you a close to full spec in another line. Most importantly though, PBT along with summoned pets is what defines Theurgist. Choosing to turn down one of your class defining abilities to become semi-Sorc? That's what self-gimping is really about.

 

[old.Rook]

Hmm, Pbt is the signature spell of a theurg and there is no reason not to spec 26 points in earth.

The 10 Sec Pbt is usually enough, cause in good groups the mobs are mezzed/rooted the whole time. If something is going wrong... chaincasting the 10 sec Pbt will help a lot, its a 3,5 sec Pbt then.

If u wanna have a play a good Nuker and mezzer, take a sorc - if u wanna do seriuos RvR and RvE.... a Air only Theurg is a "gimped" charakter, no discussion about it (except if u wanna have a "fun"-charakter),


Only air theurg: a crappy mezz, a bugged pet and a good nuke...

Hmm, the usuall Earth/Ice spec: A good nuke, good Pets, a damned good AoE Root, a good single root, pusling pbt and so on

 

[old.¥ØÐÄ]

Originally posted by Rook


Only air theurg: a crappy mezz, a bugged pet and a good nuke...

well i am making a pure air theurg on advice of a friend in american servers . he is the 2nd highest minstral rp's on his realm and he always partys with a pure air theurg in rvr who is the top rp earner of the whole realm "albion iseult" . so how you could say a pure air theurg is gimped and wouldnt be viable in rvr just goes to show you are wrong .

and read my post properly . i said creating a char JUST to please others in pve sucks . if somebody told you to make a pure rejuve or enchance cleric so u can give uber heals or uber buffs would you ? "this is presuming you want to earn your own rp's" if you want to leech rp's then fair enuff . but i personally prefer to earn my own rp's and make my chars how i want them and not to make a certain build just because people expect your char to have a certain skill just to help them . in rvr imo grp or self bt is good enuff . pbt is mainly used for lvling . and normal bt or pbt is used vs snipers . if a caster has self/group bt on and he gets sniped a quick /face /quickcast mezz or nuke knocks the sniper out of time thus no need for bt to refresh . thats if bt helps cos ive heard a lt of casters say pbt is over rated in rvr ,

 

[old.Cotta]

I'm level 38 theurg and have current spec : 18 earth ( the group^bt) and 33 wind.
Planning to go to 45 in wind and get earth to 26, but that means i will only get pbt at 48 .
But hey the earth theurgs haven't got a good nuke and the wind nukes are very devastating (especially vs. spirits). The pets stun can be a lifesaver too.
Don't care not having pbt at this level, i just have lots of fun in rvr (where pbt is useless, speed much better then). I recently gained RR2 ( ) i think that's good for level 38 *gimped* air theurgist

 

[Tigerius]

Do you have any clue yourself or are you just saying things you've heard?

"pure Air" meaning what, you have 50 air and then foresake the remaining points? There's a fully acceptable template, 47A 26E 5I that leaves you short of only the final mez. Hardly devoting your entire character to the needs of others.

As for /face and quickcast, I wish you luck Last I checked only Pets have enough range to work on a regular basis when getting sniped.

Body (46) / Mind (28) Sorc Air (49) / Earth (18) Theurg
AE Mez 46secs, 1500range AE Mez 32secs, 1250range
DD 210dmg DD 210dmg
Personal BT Group BT
Group run buff Group run buff
Lvl40 Pet Summonable 20sec pets
Str/Con, Dex/Qui debuffs Attack speed debuff
50% Heat/Cold debuffs Dmg/Attack speed buff
AE Root 73secs (later patch) AE Root 23secs

Again tell me why you'd want to be Air Theurgist and leave out the trademark theurgist spell?

Edit: Apologise for the crappy formatting, forgot it would work like that. CBA to remake it right now though.

 

[old.Cotta]

Well as air theurg i mean that u mostly spec in air. I'm going for 26 earth en 45 wind, seems to be ideal spec.
U reaaly have to be foolish to spec to 50 wind if u can get for those 5 points, the pbt, wich seems important cuz the first thing people ask: Have u got pbt? Then i try to make clear that theurgs can do other things beside bt.

 

[old.LandShark]

Well, how about this. Minstrels generally acknowledge that 44 is the ideal spec stopping point for instruments. This means you can't take your melee skill above 49.
In order to get both 44 instruments and 50 thrust (just as an example; lvl 50 thrust style owns ) and thus maximise my RvR effectiveness, i could autotrain instruments to level 34. This would mean however that if i joined any groups, i would be unable to do more than hit things wi' me stick; no power song, no crowd control, no speed.
So, fine, i'm still a minstrel, but for god's sake, *I* wouldn't group with me....
Theurg without at least basic PBT is in the same boat. Sorc can do CC better, wizzies can nuke better, etc etc.
Just as i'd advice all clerics to get 23 rejuv before they think of much else, i'd advice all theurgs to take earth to 26 before considering anything else. Think of it as a PvE essential....

 

[Dalby]

dont forget you will be able to respec in a future (mmm patch...

 

[Danya]

Not to mention 99% of minstrels spec some stealth anyway. the 44/49 (or 44/50) spec is generally never seen - most go 44/39/29 or 44/35/34. Still not specing instruments for 34 levels is self-gimping on a level far far beyond the full air-theurg. It's like an armsman saying "nope I have no weapon specs, they're all autotraining, I just spec crossbow!"

Oh yeah theurg post right, not minstrel...

"if a caster has self/group bt on and he gets sniped a quick /face /quickcast mezz or nuke knocks the sniper out of time thus no need for bt to refresh . thats if bt helps cos ive heard a lt of casters say pbt is over rated in rvr "

No you'll die. Archers easily outrange your mez and nukes. The only spell that can reliably range an archer is the range debuff which theurgs don't get.
As for pbt being overrated in rvr, try raiding a keep then say that, it's completely invaluable. RvR isn't only about running about solo getting one-shotted by assassins and critted by archers.

 

[old.¥ØÐÄ]

are any of you reading this post ?

im not saying pbt isnt good what im saying is creating a char and using a template JUST to suit other chars needs for lvling "which pbt is imo" is stupid .

if you wanted to rvr solo or in a group would you make a pure rejuve cleric? after all everybody wants a cleric to be juve . no i didnt think so thats exactly my point . if a full juve u would suck at solo rvr . im not saying it would be easy getting a grp if a person doesnt conform to making the populer template . but if i have to solo and make what is imo a great rvr char, or spec it to please others so i get a group easy then ill go the hard way . after all i'm in no rush to lvl .

 

[Danya]

The point is that an air spec thrug isn't a great RvR char. They're more of a gimped Sorc. So you're making a char that is virtually ungroupable for PvE and also sucks in RvR... well your choice I suppose, but you can't really blame people for warning you.

 

[old.¥ØÐÄ]

how do you figure out air theurgs suck ?

as i said above my friend on use server "lvl 50 mins" groups all the time with a lvl 50 air theurg .
the 50 air theurg in question is the TOP rp earner for albion on isault .

so he must be a really gimped char to be able to get that many rp's . if i create him and he does suck or i cant play him properly then its my fault .

but thats not the point of my posts on this thread "read up" so instead of getting into a flame war "which i cant be assed with" lets just leave it at that .

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Woe the day mez/stun duration based on spirit ressit is implemented ^^

 

[Tigerius]

What is it you're not getting Yoda? What's the point of your posts? Self-gimping is a right? Being entirely egoistic is?

Friends don't let friends spec full Air.

A 47 Air, 26 Earth, 6 Ice tempate would only weaken your air very slightly and be far from "just suiting others needs". I won't even do the whole try to benefit your realm routine as I fear it's lost.. but YOU need to level too. I know you said you have friends and guild taking care of that, well be damn glad that they do because you're taking the choice to make one of the most party friendly chars into a party unfriendly one.

 

[old.¥ØÐÄ]

Originally posted by Tigerius
What is it you're not getting Yoda? What's the point of your posts? Self-gimping is a right? Being entirely egoistic is?

im sure your missing the point ..

i think you will agree how i decide to build my char is entirely my choice ? "regardless if it's party friendly or unfriendly "

the point of my reply above states i dont think creating a char to a specific template in order to please others and make there lvl'ing time easier is a bad idea .

again i say im NOT saying pbt is bad . everybody is entitled to there opinion i have mine and i expressed it . the original poster asked a question and i replied . so im being egotistic and saying gimping your own char is right because i responded to a thread where somebody asked a question ? i think not ,its called putting forward different people views . and giving them a wider spread of opinion .

im not gonna bother getting into a arguement you have your opinion i have mine , :sleeping:

 

[Danya]

Did you stop to think that maybe the reason the sir apec theurg on the US server is so good is because he's always in groups with level 50 minstrels? I expect most classes would earn some pretty high RPs in that situation, that doesn't mean that an air spec theurg isn't gimped. Just that he has a nice situation to play his in.

 

[old.Rook]

Sorry guys - im pretty careful about minstrels who are trying to tell me something about theurgs... the bitter truth is: a lot realm points means mostly a lot of time on your hands and doesnt mean a shit about "how to play and develop" a charakter.

An another truth is when im playing in a good team - yes, then its possible to get a lot RPs even with a blind and death level 1 cabalist.

So, i did a lot RvR with my former minstrel and for "sure" i was knowing to much about theurgs - i thought so - till the day i started to play a theurg as my main. Ive learned a lot, even the truth that a mostly air-theurg in RvR is a kind of ok, but never will reach the performance of a prober played and specced earth/ice theurg.

Usually i dont qoute, couldnt withdraw - my excuse:

"it seems to me clerics/sorcs/turgs are the chars everybody else "tanks/wizzys/rouges" want us to make our chars to help them . clerics are expected to go rejuve "gimping themself for rvr" sorcs are expected to go the route of mezz " gimping solo abilty in rvr" and same with turgs . all other chars can make there chars purely for rvr . whilst we struggle to get grps if we try create our chars for max ability of solo i rvr ."

So the game is about RvR and viable charakters//templates - and believe me, the way of an air theurg isnt a good one in RvR. And i´m dont talk about how good or bad pbt is - we know pbt rocks the house - its about gimped air theurgs: A crappy mezz and a nice nuke, hmmm - thats all about an air theurg




Jesus, i hate to beat up dead horses...