Discussion on What is Cheating in todays DAOC..

[Thornea]

Im gonna rightnow a list of things ive seen in game that appear to be dodgy, bug abusing or damn right cheating..
I intend to ask GOA which items in the list below are actual banable/cheating/bug abusing offenses for a definative answer (I will post reply here) as no one really seams to know 100%.
Im not asking for flames, naming or shaming of anykind.. Just want to know if ive missed anything off the list (May be some class specific bugs I dont know about) that u guys can come up with before I submit to GOA (Im sure ive missed tons off the list)


1... Water surface skimming on low health
2... Water up/down to avoid being hit constantly
3... Water backing up (opponent always hitting you but you get out of range as they back up)
4... Constant Run Throughs in melee
5... Perma straffe so melee oponent gets consta out of view
6... Perma run round in circles (same as above? but not actual straffing) for out of view
7... Cant hit someone when /stuck to them & sprint on, when it appears u are right on top of them (even when charging SOS.. 1 hit then back to oov) - Is this just Server Lag? Been fixed recently by mythic?
8... Pets "Somehow" getting inside towers/keeps (Just a bug?)
9... Casting, shooting (whatever) from Bridge support beams (but accessable by all)
10.. Bainshee COEing through keep walls (think its ok through doors?)


Some of the above may just be game mechanics tbh, but im encountering them more and more lately (as are my guildies).



Items we know ARE Cheating/Banable....

1... Gaydar
2... Excessive emote spam
3... Speed Hack
4... Shadowstrike gaining access too 1) DF steps 2) Inside of Towers
3) inside of main keeps (but not outer oil platform)
5... Shooting, Casting (whatever) from inside a terrain piece where u cant be attacked back
6... Necro Pet abusing (same as 5?)


Items we/I know are legit

1... Shadowstrike teleport to oil platform on main keeps



Please, Please keep this cival and blame/name free guys. Im prompting for some serious discussion/feedback to send to GOA for answers once and for all so we all know where exactly we stand.

 

[thaaadi]

lagg straff

 

[Infanity]

Nuking through walls

 

[Void959]

Water skilmming on low health and to avoid snares due to garotte etc is definately bannable, most of the others you list are consequences of lag and are not, I imagine the pet 'bug' should be though if you can prove it was deliberate.

 

[AngelHeal]

cheating = software running that is not daoc, but is involved with daoc.

(except teamspeak orsmt)

 

[Elkie]

The los issue in water is not a cheat and was confirmed to me by mythic, the only bug/cheat in water is when you are on low hp and you are ontop of water you go land speed still.

 

[Andrilyn]

People that use /stick in combat make me cry.

 

[grimlin]

if i cant kill u

 

[Danord_durin]

I guess u can't call meele lag a cheat. But it sure as hell sux badly.

 

[Congax]

4... Shadowstrike gaining access too 1) DF steps

iirc, this is legit?

 

[censi]

u sux newb!

 

[uspe]

still casting on someone which is hidden behind door or in twr etc.....and dead.
that is cheating which some ppl still doing it.

 

[Gondath]

1... Water surface skimming on low health

(edit, misread this one at first)

This is apparently an exploit since you avoid the snare effect your normally get, then again it's pretty unreasonable to expect people to stand still and not move in certain situations simply because the game handles it badly. It's unreasonably to expect people to even be aware of this one


2... Water up/down to avoid being hit constantly

Legit

3... Water backing up (opponent always hitting you but you get out of range as they back up)

Legit


4... Constant Run Throughs in melee

Legit


5... Perma straffe so melee oponent gets consta out of view

Legit as long as not combined with window-dragging or other voluntarily induced lag


6... Perma run round in circles (same as above? but not actual straffing) for out of view

You are thinking of spiralling, which is also legit


7... Cant hit someone when /stuck to them & sprint on, when it appears u are right on top of them (even when charging SOS.. 1 hit then back to oov) - Is this just Server Lag? Been fixed recently by mythic?

This is either server lag (legit) or lag-cheating which obviously isn't.


8... Pets "Somehow" getting inside towers/keeps (Just a bug?)

Bug, but still an exploit obviously.


9... Casting, shooting (whatever) from Bridge support beams (but accessable by all)

Hard to get it any more legit than that, no idea how you can even consider it otherwise



10.. Bainshee COEing through keep walls (think its ok through doors?)

Not ok through doors either. It's a simple matter of crappy LoS checks, they apparently fixed some more in 1.84 but no idea how much it actually helped. Impressive that they still haven't sorted out their models and checks yet lol, the game isn't exactly new.



"Some of the above may just be game mechanics tbh, but im encountering them more and more lately (as are my guildies)."

Most of that stuff is perfectly legit, despite being undesirable. The best idea if you want it changed is to write constructive bug feedback, focusing on getting the game mechanics changed rather than focusing on the players exploiting them.



"Items we know ARE Cheating/Banable....

1... Gaydar
2... Excessive emote spam
3... Speed Hack
4... Shadowstrike gaining access too 1) DF steps 2) Inside of Towers
3) inside of main keeps (but not outer oil platform)
5... Shooting, Casting (whatever) from inside a terrain piece where u cant be attacked back
6... Necro Pet abusing (same as 5?) "

Yes all of these are already pretty clear.


"Please, Please keep this cival and blame/name free guys. Im prompting for some serious discussion/feedback to send to GOA for answers once and for all so we all know where exactly we stand."

Sounds good. Doesn't hurt to check stuff out, although I wouldn't expect miracles if I were you. A game mechanic that is intentional is never considered cheating or even borderline regardless of how much one might dislike the effects.

 

[islef]

Lagg casting at every single standoff?

 

[Cylian]

Water skilmming on low health and to avoid snares due to garotte etc is definately bannable, most of the others you list are consequences of lag and are not, I imagine the pet 'bug' should be though if you can prove it was deliberate.

The los issue in water is not a cheat and was confirmed to me by mythic, the only bug/cheat in water is when you are on low hp and you are ontop of water you go land speed still.

until there is a fix to this, it's considered legit since you cannot chose at which speed you go while in the water.

that's roughly the answer I got from GOA when I asked them about it.

 

[Konah]

the only bug/cheat in water is when you are on low hp and you are ontop of water you go land speed still.

its hardly a cheat, just a (very annoying at times) bug.

plenty speed hackers/macro craft-xp'ers and even radar users around still. 2 radar that are undetectable atm i'm told, altho radar users can always be busted by diligent GMs spotting dodgy behaviour/movement/positioning, but wait, we're talking about GoA here... xD

 

[Elkie]

its hardly a cheat, just a (very annoying at times) bug.

plenty speed hackers/macro craft-xp'ers and even radar users around still. 2 radar that are undetectable atm i'm told, altho radar users can always be busted by diligent GMs spotting dodgy behaviour/movement/positioning, but wait, we're talking about GoA here... xD

Some guy on usa i met sent me a ss of a char name included ect and said he would get legendary armourer in a day, sent me ss that night same char ect /played time like 12 hours and was lgn acer so yes their are alot of craft haxs

 

[necromania]

4... Shadowstrike gaining access too inside of main keeps (but not outer oil platform)

thats not illegal/bannable.

 

[Gondath]

until there is a fix to this, it's considered legit since you cannot chose at which speed you go while in the water.

that's roughly the answer I got from GOA when I asked them about it.

Which makes perfect sense. Even if the game has a flaw like that, you can't expect players NOT to move in those situations lol, most aren't even aware of the problem

 

[Vodkafairy]

1... Water surface skimming on low health

well, this is bannable if abused. why you would want to tell people about such bugs is beyond me though

 

[pjuppe]

1... Water surface skimming on low health

can somebody explain to a limited to a swede with limited knowledge of the english language, like myself, what this means?

 

[Void959]

until there is a fix to this, it's considered legit since you cannot chose at which speed you go while in the water.

that's roughly the answer I got from GOA when I asked them about it.

I'm sure I heard of several people getting temp bans for it a few months back which is why I said that, though people are right that it can often be used unintentionally, there are still people who use it very deliberately. Maybe GOA have changed their stance on it like they did about 10 times on pre-nerf cone abuse.

 

[rure]

<Text removed>

4... Constant Run Throughs in melee
5... Perma straffe so melee oponent gets consta out of view
6... Perma run round in circles (same as above? but not actual straffing) for out of view

Since when did moving your char became cheating or bannable?

 

[Bistrup666]

can somebody explain to a limited to a swede with limited knowledge of the english language, like myself, what this means?

Yes this is the only banneble offence on the first list.

And for U pjuppe

It is when U are at low hp and swim at reduced speed U can go to the surface and U will swim at normal speed.

It's a bug that they asked ppl not to abuse, and it's illegal to abuse it.

At the same time they've told every living soul about it and expect them not to abuse it, mythic logic they won't fix the bugs in game even tho some have been there for mutiple years now, and they admit it's a bug wich they will try to fix. Shows U excatly how much skill mythic posses.

 

[lpep]

Since when did moving your char became cheating or bannable?

its not the fact that people r moving thier toon its the jumping /straffing that people do when ure trying to hit them in melee.. hib casters seems to have it perfected

 

[crispy]

Since when did moving your char became cheating or bannable?

Dont think he said it was bannable ^_^ this was a list of questions to mythic.

And tbh, running through in melee with the sole purpose to avoid casters qc'ing their spells SHOULD be bannable since its bugabuse imho

its not the fact that people r moving thier toon its the jumping /straffing that people do when ure trying to hit them in melee.. hib casters seems to have it perfected

Same goes for mid casters

 

[Glacier]

As long as it dosent require a 3'rd party program, and you dont have to 'create' lag to make it happen, i consider it legit.

 

[pjuppe]

Yes this is the only banneble offence on the first list.

And for U pjuppe

It is when U are at low hp and swim at reduced speed U can go to the surface and U will swim at normal speed.

It's a bug that they asked ppl not to abuse, and it's illegal to abuse it.

At the same time they've told every living soul about it and expect them not to abuse it, mythic logic they won't fix the bugs in game even tho some have been there for mutiple years now, and they admit it's a bug wich they will try to fix. Shows U excatly how much skill mythic posses.

thanks, didn't know about that i guess i have to stay underwater from now on.

 

[Muylaetrix]

is using walk through as a caster vs a mellee class coinsidered dodgy ?

i know i use it a lot when a mellee clas on me to just walk through and try cast a single pbaoe before i get hit again.

doesn`t work half as good vs duel wielders as vs 2handers though.

 

[rure]

its not the fact that people r moving thier toon its the jumping /straffing that people do when ure trying to hit them in melee.. hib casters seems to have it perfected

So you are saying you arent moving your char when you jump and strafe?