Design faults

[jigsaw]

" Players undertake not to make use of any bugs, nor to use any undocumented functions, nor to exploit any possible design faults. Players also undertake to notify GOA personnel of the presence of any bugs, undocumented functions or design faults that they may discover as soon as possible."

Dear GoA,

As requested i am notifying you of a design fault.

New frontiers = shit for melee classes

is this "working as intended" or an undocumented function?


:touch:

 

[Danya]

is this "working as intended" or an undocumented function?

Neither. NF being shit for melees is an opinion, not a feature of the game.

 

[Jeriraa]

Real game design faults would be:

1) /assist
2) the missing (or removed?) speed caps
3) pet spam classes
4) most of the master level abilities
5) some of the realm abilities

 

[Chesnox]

Neither. NF being shit for melees is an opinion, not a feature of the game.

An opinion shared almost unanimously by anyone who plays a tank class. That makes it a fact in my book.

 

[Jeriraa]

...almost unanimously by anyone who plays a tank class...

hearsay

 

[Danya]

An opinion shared almost unanimously by anyone who plays a tank class. That makes it a fact in my book.

Popularity doesn't prove a fact. Many many people thought the sun went round the earth - doesn't make it a fact.

2) the missing (or removed?) speed caps

Which would these be? Melee, archery and casting are all speed capped.

 

[Chesnox]

hearsay

Its not hearsay. Look at the weekly RP earners on almost any server. See any Armsmen, Warriors or Heroes up there? No, nor do I. Of course some smartass could spam stats from a server where a tank is in top 10, but thats the exception. The rule is, is no fun to play a tank in NF, where range is the king. Not hearsay, fact. Deny it all you like, but you are plain wrong.

Popularity doesn't prove a fact. Many many people thought the sun went round the earth - doesn't make it a fact.

Err? So even though 90% (guess) of the tank players in DaoC decide that playing their tank in NF sucks its not true? Because, right, and get this, people used to think the Sun went round the Earth, and they were wrong too!

Please. Provide statistical or anecdotal evidence as to exactly why tanks in NF don't suck, rather that your lame arguments. Thanks.

 

[Invisibul]

" Players undertake not to make use of any bugs, nor to use any undocumented functions, nor to exploit any possible design faults.QUOTE]


Does this refer to game design faults? If so every animist that casts a shroom is guilty of the lame geometry problems, therefore unintentionally abusing a bug

please correct me nicely if wrong.

 

[Danya]

Err? So even though 90% (guess) of the tank players in DaoC decide that playing their tank in NF sucks its not true? Because, right, and get this, people used to think the Sun went round the Earth, and they were wrong too!

Please. Provide statistical or anecdotal evidence as to exactly why tanks in NF don't suck, rather that your lame arguments. Thanks.

You missed my point. My point isn't whether tanks suck or not; my point was that whether something sucks or not is opinion, not a design flaw. My opinion is that tanks do suck in NF FWIW.
Please. Less straw men. Thanks.

 

[Chesnox]

You missed my point. My point isn't whether tanks suck or not; my point was that whether something sucks or not is opinion, not a design flaw. My opinion is that tanks do suck in NF FWIW.
Please. Less straw men. Thanks.

So, you think tanks suck. I think tanks suck. The OP think tanks suck. But its nothing to do with Mythic right? Because our opinion that tanks suck is nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that the guys who design this game made an RvR expansion that prompted most of the players who play tanks to post "Errrr, don't you think tanks suck in NF guys?" posts to a plethora of DaoC forums.

Come on, of course its poor design that a whole set of classes is almost redundant in RvR. What else is it? Who else can right that wrong? Nobody but Mythic. The designers.

 

[Danya]

That's all very nice, but has almost nothing to do with what I said... Now, what did I say about straw men?

 

[Chesnox]

That's all very nice, but has almost nothing to do with what I said... Now, what did I say about straw men?

Yes its does. You said its not a design flaw. I said it is. Next.

 

[Danya]

So all tanks should be banned by your reckoning, for exploiting design faults?

 

[Outlander]

playing a tank in nf isnt expoiting as it doesnt get you ahead in the game by unfair means

 

[Chesnox]

So all tanks should be banned by your reckoning, for exploiting design faults?

Hehe. Handing out bans for gimped tanks. That would affect all of the, ooh, 10 active RvR tanks. On all servers ;p

Seriously. It is poor design when range becomes so important. OF was by no means perfect, but NF has almost killed off the role of heavy tanks in RvR. Sadly, the state DaoC is now means people re-roll fotm classes, i.e. those with range or stealth. Tanks have no answer to those classes in NF, so most people have quit or re-rolled. Pretty tragic state of affairs imho. Go RvR now (even the BGs!) and its fall off the chair time if you see a warrior/hero or armsman. Sad days.

 

[Danya]

That's more about how people chose to play the game though. You don't have to attack towers/keeps in NF, it's just everyone does.
You can argue that the design encourages that, but ultimately the players are responsible. Maybe GOA should ban archers and casters for attacking tanks from battlements instead.

Besides, the CoC says design faults - it's not a design fault that ranged attackers are more effective in tower fights than melees, that's how mythic intended it to work.

 

[knighthood]

scarily ive seen a lot of newly rolled Armsman recently, even in thid..
and reavers <very fotm atm cos of thornweed> which are pretty much a tank. Your right about warriors though, havnt seen 1 in about 2months, though i did come across a luri hero in thid yesterday.

but on the other hand... id like to see someone kill cetus/runi/chimera ect with just a bunch of casters and rogues..

tanks wont die out.. the games impossible without them , and as for RvR , well ill admit havnt tried big boy RvR properly as a main tank <Mincer/Friar the closest melee class > but my reaver has no probs in Leirkvik engaging arrows/interupting casters ect

but yes, give tanks wub.. it so sucks atm for us, i want a pole ogre

 

[Vilje]

That's more about how people chose to play the game though. You don't have to attack towers/keeps in NF, it's just everyone does.

You've got a good point.

Still, wherever you go in NF, you will meet at tower, or a keep. You can't really escape it, and it makes it more difficult to find a common playground for the realms. In the old days it was Emain Macha around the Mile Gates, and around the pk's etc, etc...Anyways, a fairly big area... At the moment it's at Brynja Bridge, and around the Bled, and Bled drop off area ( Prydwen ), but it changes alot. And this area is too small to play at anyways = a bit boring

So, anyways, since no one knows where to go fight there enemies, they tend to end up camping drop off points, or the most common keep to port to ( Ex: Bled on mid, since thats where the boat takes the shortest time to the other realms, and therefore most people port there ).

Then after a while, out of total boredom, the ones looking for enemies, decides to take a tower, and maybe even a keep. Then more people arrives, siege begins, and tanks start to feel useless, which I do not blame them for. Because of the need for range etc.

But tanks are not the only ones feeling useless: Any spellcaster with uber long range, like the Fire wizz, or the Eldritch, or the Runie, or the Sorcerer etc etc, can not only outrange melee classes, but also other classes with shorter range. Ex. other casters with shorter range. You have to have the longest range, anything inbetween wont really help you much, in tower/keep siege atleast ( my experience, though others might feel different ).

Maybe if we all, tanks in paticular, took more chances under the tower/keep sieges ( im not saying that you dont do it, but even more ), it would surely be more fun for you tanks, and us other classes, and fun is what it's all about remember

Ex: Run out of the tower, then attack people using ram, etc. Sneak out the side door on the keep, and flank someone...hehehe ( ofc there would have to be more than just tanks running out, else mess and dead but anyways ).. I know this is easier said than done, but perhaps it just might do the trick...turn the tide if you know what i mean. I rarely see anyone do anything like that

Remember, it is very much what we do that decides wherether the game is fun or not ( well not if the game is completly fecked, but u know what i mean ).

EDIT: Grammar

 

[Teiten]

just for the record i always run with a hero and a bm in my grp.

however the game may suck for tanks now some are still having fun, its the way you play the game, and lack of initiative to go do something else then taking towers that makes it boring.

 

[old.windforce]

but on the other hand... id like to see someone kill cetus/runi/chimera ect with just a bunch of casters and rogues..

i can kill all those solo (chimaire, runi with help of 1 other player) playing necro and cleric

all heavy tanks are at best sub-par with hybrids and "light" tanks