Debate time!

[Dukat]

Just been looking thought the FH quotes and saw this:

The life of a single human being is worth a million times more than all the property of the richest man on earth.
- Che Guevara

I thought it would be interesting to see what people think about this statement?

I think that it has merit, and in principle it is true - I strongly agree with the ideals that this quote is talking about.

However, in practice, surely if we spent "a million times the worth of the property of the richest man on earth" in exchange for one single human life, then we'd lose hundreds of millions, if not billions, of lives because we'd just spent everything on joe bloggs over there?

Just thought it would be interesting to see what people think about this

 

[Mey]

Life is cheap, war, poverty, famine, murder, abortion (etc.) all highlight this.

 

[Ezteq]

sorry im just going to have to say it but imo (and this really is just in my opinion, its how i feel i cant help it and dont want to help it so dont flame me) different people have different values.

so the statement (for me) is wrong because some people, i truely believe, are a complete waste of space and oxygen and are utterly worthless

what can i say i really am a bastard.

 

[Bugz]

I think you have to look at that quote in the context it was written in.

He doesn't mean we should take all the wealth of people to keep one person alive - but rather we can not value the life of an individual and cannot put a price on something as delicate as human life.

In effect, one million times more than the richest man on earth suggests a priceless appeal - which I think he is trying to get at*

*probably wrong!

 

[old.Tohtori]

Che Guevara saying that, is rather ironic though.

If you look at it from the point of view that he was a guerrilla leader.

 

[Olgaline]

well altho I do agree in the ideal that a human life is priceless,
The dreadfull truth unfortunatly is that dosnt exactly hold true.

but then again how do you mesure the most significant contributions that mankind have brought us,
or more even importantly so, what or rather who brought them about? many times you'll find that the answer is money!
finances are a means to an end, and as such in them selvs need not be an evil as some would like to suggest.
However how finaces are put to use? is a very diffent matter all together.

here you can better messure how these specificly benifit the "greater good" off humanity, oh and sometimes it might take a while before a specific crontribution reveals it self as a segnificant to humanity.

 

[Iceforge]

Okay, ready to make an ass out of myself then

Anyway, to me it depends on the life in question and from what view one should look upon the life.

Should one take on a subjective humanistic view or an objective capitalistic view on this matter?

Watching it through subjective humanistic eyes, life is priceless and so much more worth than any coins, property or other belongings, as a human will have social connections and leave other people in grief after their death, no matter who the person is.

But if all sink down to a humanistic care-bear state debating this, the debate won't get much further than life is priceless.

So, for the sake of making this more exciting, I am going to state that viewed objectively and capitalisticly, a human is worth no more than the money they posses and was going to earn through the rest of their life, not a single cent more.

Why? Well, an our capitalistic world, we reward people depending on the worth of their contribution to the rest of society and grant them power in the form of valuta/cash that they can then choose to administrate however they want.
Cash is power in our society. The rich bastard gets a bigger house, bigger car, more influence on politics through lobby workers then the average joe.

That is also why our legal system frown hard upon people commiting economical fraud, as they have promoted themself to posses more power than what they are truely worth, artifically taking a position in the heiracy(sp?) of our society located higher and pushed others down the heiracy.

So various positions are rewarded depending on how much worth it has to society. Companies gain money by people spending their power in exchange of feel good services or required goods for survival. In most civilized countries, we got a firm belief now that everybody, no matter what actual worth they got to society and how much they contribute, they should be allowed at least the power(cash) to essential survival.

On a big picture, with money resembling the power and worth people got to society, logically a persons life is only worth the money and possessions he has and what he would have earned before dying.

This is, however, with 1 big exception.

Because every society, also a capitalistic society, needs new residents, so a person is actually worth what he own, what he will earn until he dies, and what any reproductions (and their reproductions, and so on and so forth) would be worth.

So a person who would reproduce (again) before dying, would be a priceless member to society, assuming his bloodline would never die completely out, but the moment you got all the kids you are ever going to get, your life is essentially not worth a lot compared to the rest of society (which are going to reproduce)

 

[russell]

Okay, ready to make an ass out of myself then

Anyway, to me it depends on the life in question and from what view one should look upon the life.

Should one take on a subjective humanistic view or an objective capitalistic view on this matter?

Watching it through subjective humanistic eyes, life is priceless and so much more worth than any coins, property or other belongings, as a human will have social connections and leave other people in grief after their death, no matter who the person is.

But if all sink down to a humanistic care-bear state debating this, the debate won't get much further than life is priceless.

So, for the sake of making this more exciting, I am going to state that viewed objectively and capitalisticly, a human is worth no more than the money they posses and was going to earn through the rest of their life, not a single cent more.

Why? Well, an our capitalistic world, we reward people depending on the worth of their contribution to the rest of society and grant them power in the form of valuta/cash that they can then choose to administrate however they want.
Cash is power in our society. The rich bastard gets a bigger house, bigger car, more influence on politics through lobby workers then the average joe.

That is also why our legal system frown hard upon people commiting economical fraud, as they have promoted themself to posses more power than what they are truely worth, artifically taking a position in the heiracy(sp?) of our society located higher and pushed others down the heiracy.

So various positions are rewarded depending on how much worth it has to society. Companies gain money by people spending their power in exchange of feel good services or required goods for survival. In most civilized countries, we got a firm belief now that everybody, no matter what actual worth they got to society and how much they contribute, they should be allowed at least the power(cash) to essential survival.

On a big picture, with money resembling the power and worth people got to society, logically a persons life is only worth the money and possessions he has and what he would have earned before dying.

This is, however, with 1 big exception.

Because every society, also a capitalistic society, needs new residents, so a person is actually worth what he own, what he will earn until he dies, and what any reproductions (and their reproductions, and so on and so forth) would be worth.

So a person who would reproduce (again) before dying, would be a priceless member to society, assuming his bloodline would never die completely out, but the moment you got all the kids you are ever going to get, your life is essentially not worth a lot compared to the rest of society (which are going to reproduce)

Iceforge, I think you add a great deal to the debate and give an exceptionally intelligent and well considered answer.

I myself struggle with the context of the quote and the fact it comes from Che Guevara, whom I think to have been a very intelligent and inspirational man with a great ideology, but ultimately a man who was a brutal, tyrannical murderer.

He executed hundreds and hundreds of people, and yet here he is quoted as valuing the life of a single person so highly! (Or maybe it is that he places so little value on wealth and material possessions)… Mmmmm… controversial.

Think he would be very amused at the humanist v’ Capitalist side of this discussion!
But you raise valuable points. It is your personal perspective on life that matters in all this. The value of a human’s life is totally subjective according to your own attitudes, values and beliefs.

I fall into the humanist camp as I believe( in a soft and girly way) that it is all about what you give to other humans and the contribution you make, and the legacy you leave behind in the world (like your children) that makes a human being’s life worth ‘more’. But I accept the Capitalist viewpoint as a valid methodology. Money is power, and if the majority humans actually lived by the humanist theory, there would be no amassed wealth and no abject poverty!!! Ha HA –Like that would EVER happen.

My dad would agree with Exteq, but he would go further to say that some human life should be irradiated totally for the greater good.

Hmmmmm its all food for thought from my patio on a Tuesday morning…

 

[Hawkwind]

sorry im just going to have to say it but imo (and this really is just in my opinion, its how i feel i cant help it and dont want to help it so dont flame me) different people have different values.

so the statement (for me) is wrong because some people, i truely believe, are a complete waste of space and oxygen and are utterly worthless

what can i say i really am a bastard.

Repped for truth!

 

[echome]

I don't even want to go into this one tbh

 

[old.Tohtori]

I don't even want to go into this one tbh

Fanboi

 

[Calaen]

Every leader is a prick They would all kill to be in the top position.

 

[echome]

Fanboi

You are always trying to hurt my feelings... evil evil man!!:wub:

But yeah guess I am a "fanboi". I do agree with his thoughts and acts atleast hehe.

 

[old.Tohtori]

You are always trying to hurt my feelings... evil evil man!!:wub:

But yeah guess I am a "fanboi". I do agree with his thoughts and acts atleast hehe.

Hey, i've got an evil reputation to uphold

 

[Jupiter]

If your a capitalist Che was a murderer & tyrannical, if your a socialist he was a freedom fighter & saviour of the people. I would like to think he was somewhere in between and the world needs a Che Guevara with a little mix of Darwin thrown in for good measure.

I always liked the quote from Full Metal Jacket "Inside every gook is an american trying to get out" and that film was made in 1987, Kubrick was a genious........

 

[Helme]

Every leader is a prick They would all kill to be in the top position.

I doubt many would kill to be in the top position, far more will kill to stay there however.

 

[Dark Orb Choir]

“I don't care if I fall as long as someone else picks up my gun and keeps on shooting"

Thats his best quote

 

[Dark Orb Choir]

"time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a bananna"

thats groucho marx's best quote

 

[echome]

“I don't care if I fall as long as someone else picks up my gun and keeps on shooting"

Thats his best quote

I think so too ;-) - Tbh I think many would find his writing interesting, being a communist , capitalist or whatever. Same with Fidel, even though he is a bit more dreaming.

 

[Dukat]

I have to admit that I was unaware of the irony of the quote I dont know much about the guy in question at all, as I say I just found it whilst browsing the FH quotes section

The same as russell, my dad has said things similar to what Ezteq said I'm undecided, quite often I can be kinda aggressive to people in some cases, but that said I've always believed that the most noble thing anyone can do is lay down thier life for someone else's in a situation where no one will ever know about it, regardless of what the person they're saving is like.

Another quote, this time from a corny sci fi programme 'Babylon 5' - "No greater love hath a man than he who lays down his life for his brother. Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame, for one person ... in the dark where no one will know or see."

I just find it interesting to think about - on the one hand you quite often see things that make you lose all faith in humanity, but then on the other hand people will place a single life above all the money in the world I guess we're all made up of contradictions on some level or other.

 

[Lamp]

I believe Gandhi said "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, makes the whole world blind". Gandhi wore glasses.

 

[soze]

Have to agree with Ez a child rapist is not worth a ten pound note

 

[old.Tohtori]

Have to agree with Ez a child rapist is not worth a ten pound note

Well i'm gonna say something that might not go down well, suprise there but it's what i think, if you rape a woman who can't fend you off or if you rape a child, you're equally in the wrong.

Rape is wrong in any case, any way, any how. Even roofiedropping fratboys should be locked in with the same guys who take a kid.