Dark Specced SM

[Nimah™]

Dark specced kobby SM, con10 piety10 dex10 at start-up, what they like in rvr? Do they get groups regularly or usually found soloing, what average damage when fully toa'd and rr4-5+ ? Just a few questions, as i'm levelling my sm and never played bid before Currently do about 350damage on orange con mobs (neutral to my damage) and about 500-600 with a good crit.

Thanks

 

[Asty]

Dark sm is a very good caster, performs well in rvr - groups and solo. Currently it isn't as popular as supp in groups though (which is odd ) but when NF comes pretty much all sms are gonna be dark.

You may get the image that the lifetap isnt much better than basenuke

base delve=179
lifetap delve=183

BUT its wrong, the lifetap is SHITLOADS better. Because of the different formula you get 9% more dmg to it which takes it to 199. Also the speed on it is even faster than basenuke (2.5s) which makes it evil. I'd suppose your damage at lvl50 in rvr would be something like ~400-450 (ofcourse depends a lot on ra's and template..). At rr9 with mom3, 9% dmg and 10% passive pierce I usually hit for 450-550 - depending on target.

Hope this helps

 

[Zeratuhl]

thx for that asty u helped me atleast.

 

[Shrye]

base delve=179
lifetap delve=183

BUT its wrong, the lifetap is SHITLOADS better. Because of the different formula you get 9% more dmg to it which takes it to 199.

Partly incorrect. The formulae is indeed calculated differently from normal dd's, however it doesn't increase the cap of lifetap, only the average damage (on lvl 50 targets). I recall the sorc TL tested it to be ~5% DPS increase rather than 9%, altho guess that could vary from ours.

 

[Asty]

Partly incorrect. The formulae is indeed calculated differently from normal dd's, however it doesn't increase the cap of lifetap, only the average damage (on lvl 50 targets). I recall the sorc TL tested it to be ~5% DPS increase rather than 9%, altho guess that could vary from ours.

According to Pin the bonus damage depends on the hp return on the lifetap (with 60% return you get 6% dmg, with 90% 9% dmg). And besides you wont hit cap without debuff anyway so doesnt matter much.

 

[Spix]

A question I have is do you spec 50 dark or can you stop at 47 and put some points in secondary line without gimping the lifetaps?

 

[Shrye]

According to Pin the bonus damage depends on the hp return on the lifetap (with 60% return you get 6% dmg, with 90% 9% dmg). And besides you wont hit cap without debuff anyway so doesnt matter much.

Nice to know.

A question I have is do you spec 50 dark or can you stop at 47 and put some points in secondary line without gimping the lifetaps?

Don't go higher than 47 tbh.

 

[Asty]

A question I have is do you spec 50 dark or can you stop at 47 and put some points in secondary line without gimping the lifetaps?

I have 50 dark because of last ae mezz. Only reason to go 47 is to get 23 summ for rez but its pretty useless in groups.

 

[jakob]

Dark sm is a very good caster, performs well in rvr - groups and solo. Currently it isn't as popular as supp in groups though (which is odd ) but when NF comes pretty much all sms are gonna be dark.

It's not that odd, the reason is that dark sm doesn't have any AE. In groups with only 1 caster, you want AE to take care of stunned boxes etc.

 

[Summoner]

IMO
45 s/c debuff and 28s ae mezz >> 36 s/c debuff and 33s ae mezz
and dark sm still has 2s cast pbae mezz for 29s.

so 47/26 looks better

 

[Asty]

It's not that odd, the reason is that dark sm doesn't have any AE. In groups with only 1 caster, you want AE to take care of stunned boxes etc.

Tbh supp sms AE is kinda questionable too. Without moc up its simply dump to charge a pbae box. And whats the fuss about AE dd ? if box is interrupted, which it should be, by healers, shammys, banelords its better to kill their casters one by one with single dd than to do low dmg ae.

Keep in mind too that dark sm nuke damage is very close/similar to rms but we got a lot more utility (pet for intercept/interrupt, d/q ae debuff, ae mezz)

And why do u sometimes run with bd? Do they have AE? noope, bad excuses imo

 

[jakob]

Tbh supp sms AE is kinda questionable too. Without moc up its simply dump to charge a pbae box. And whats the fuss about AE dd ? if box is interrupted, which it should be, by healers, shammys, banelords its better to kill their casters one by one with single dd than to do low dmg ae.

Keep in mind too that dark sm nuke damage is very close/similar to rms but we got a lot more utility (pet for intercept/interrupt, d/q ae debuff, ae mezz)

And why do u sometimes run with bd? Do they have AE? noope, bad excuses imo

Who runs with bd?

If you are talking about Groove, I've been in that group 1 time. But I've seen it countless times with their grp. Supp sm runs into box with bodyguarder and takes out ½ or more of the grp in a matter of secs. That simply cannot be done with a single dd nuker.

I don't know if you have had problems getting grps as dark or whatever, but I do remember a certain day when grp split cause someone didn't wanna run with dark sm. I was sitting next to him, and the reason was simply that too many fights was lost due to not having AE nuke.

And I'm not trying to bash on you or anything, I'm simply offering an explanation why supp sm's are more desirable in a grp than a dark one.

 

[Summoner]

skilled BD BL ml10 >> any caster.
Verka is the one

 

[Asty]

Who runs with bd?

If you are talking about Groove, I've been in that group 1 time. But I've seen it countless times with their grp. Supp sm runs into box with bodyguarder and takes out ½ or more of the grp in a matter of secs. That simply cannot be done with a single dd nuker.

Thing with charging box is that it doesnt often work out that well. Against intelligent groups the charging sm will get stunned/mezzed/interrupted very fast, often before first pbae. Ofcourse they can kill noob groups fast and it seems uber but those groups would die anyway so doesnt matter how fast. Anyways - agree, against hibs it can change the fight, but its risky.
However against other kinds of groups like alb debuff groups pbae is 101% useless. Thats where d/q ae debuff and fast deadly nukes really start making the difference.

Generally in fights supp sms nuke most of the time with basenuke too.. and then maybe charge with pbae if boxed or kill pets, and this is not just my playstyle, talked with a lot of other sms and ~85% of fight is single dd'ing. So doesnt it seem like a good trade to get A LOT better dd and lose pbae which is only used in some occasions?

Maybe I shouldn't say that dark > supp but atleast after playing supp sm for 3.5mil rps I found dark much more suitable for me.

geez gone offtopic a lot now ^^

 

[Asty]

skilled BD BL ml10 >> any caster.
Verka is the one

Tbh dont get this either

Sm & Rm damage output > Bd's
Sm & Rm utility > Bd's

Ofcourse bd dies a lot less, not hard to keep yourself alive with insta noobdrain and 2 healer pets, but nukes dont do that much dmg and drain mana like hell. Banelord stuff on the other hand makes Bd desirable. But problem is that to use those you need to be near enemies (in the center of fight) and even a bd should get ganked there fast.

 

[jakob]

Could also be that particular groups play style, I still think that AE nuke is a very good idea in a tank grp with 1 caster.

 

[ruudoniac]

well Only think i know is that more and more sms are respecing to dark hard to c sup sm in rvr grp - i think that says all

 

[Meril]

or it says something about the ppl that the respeccing sm is playing with ..

Debuff grp 6 pets 2-3 pbaoe k-thx-bye .. just keep screaming for grp at mtk, ill take a rr1 supp over u any day Astona

 

[Whisperess]

ill take a rr1 supp over u any day Astona

Such ignorance

Oh well, your loss.

 

[Asty]

Debuff grp 6 pets 2-3 pbaoe k-thx-bye ..

This kinda proves your ignorance ^^
Yeah the pets are always all on 1 target and boxed up and sm is never interrupted

 

[Shrye]

Just mezz/root the pets and they shouldn't be that much of a problem. Also, if it's theurg/zo pets, lvl 26 pbaoe still 1shoots them. Supp is incredible circumstantional, if you don't win CC, you're degraded to dd with a large variance. Even if you win and get the enemy boxed nicely up, you still have to waste precious seconds running in to pbaoe (and hope you won't get owned immediately by insta's on first pbaoe). With dark, you've dropped a caster by the time a supp would have moved into position, at least if you got a clue.

I know Meril has a very strong opinion about dark sm, however it's really his own loss, that he judges dark sm performance from having played together with a nqqb at some point and is now refusing to touch them alltogether.


Biggest loss dark sm suffers over supp sm, is the mezz cure imo, for which I cry myself to sleep every night

 

[Summoner]

Nah Meril just feels like he needs to respec to 50balista / 50doorbashing soon so he hates all the casters except "groove" ones

 

[[CE]Hjendug]

Tbh i can only agree with meril, i think ive runned with 2 different dark sm's now, and to be honest they sucked beside a supp sm

But when i come to think of it, its all about the playstyle, if a pac healer can pan cam and get in decent mezz !All power to supp sm's! if their not boxed up nicely at start i can see a little + on dark sm.
Though its not that big that a supp sm cant do that good to ^^

But as Meril said - i prefer Supp sm over Dark sm anytime to

 

[Summoner]

Would you invited that guy who asked into Groove as supp sm even if you is not ebayer enough? ^^
I know "groove healers" or "groove shammies" but all sms belong to BC meight 2 rr9 sm r BC and both dark, the only rr8 sm is dark too. Astona is last week rp holder among sms, 2nd one is from CE.. so what the f*ck r u talking about Grooverz?

 

[Chronictank]

most sms go supp till rr5 then respec to dark due to better dmg. Lowbie there is a hell of alot of varience in the lieftaps and the fact supp was fotm at the time. I would say supp till ur 50 then respec since supp is prefered in pve and will get you your artis and such

 

[Meril]

Such ignorance

Oh well, your loss.

ow no i wont get my rps ow wait .. how is the view from mtk? .. im normally in a hurry the few times im there in a day :kissit: :kissit: :kissit:

 

[[CE]Hjendug]

Would you invited that guy who asked into Groove as supp sm even if you is not ebayer enough? ^^
I know "groove healers" or "groove shammies" but all sms belong to BC meight 2 rr9 sm r BC and both dark, the only rr8 sm is dark too. Astona is last week rp holder among sms, 2nd one is from CE.. so what the f*ck r u talking about Grooverz?

Maybe that we dont run with sm's 24/7 like bc does, and that we run with dark runie - aka. djiin ?

 

[Indrid]

Would you invited that guy who asked into Groove as supp sm even if you is not ebayer enough? ^^
I know "groove healers" or "groove shammies" but all sms belong to BC meight 2 rr9 sm r BC and both dark, the only rr8 sm is dark too. Astona is last week rp holder among sms, 2nd one is from CE.. so what the f*ck r u talking about Grooverz?

well, i kind of agree with meril, and disagree.. i dont have anything against dark sms =)when they assist nuke me, they go down before they can do sheit.. (enemies that is)

The SMs debuff is very nice, and they dont need much heals, since lifetaps =) tho the SMs in BC was sup for a very long time =) like Astona said, i played sup for 3.5 mill..

And lots of ppl playing in BC is lwrps, because they have fixed groups every day.. which makes them, mids most active rvr guild.. so if they dont have lw rps, it would be weird..



tho i know astona got stong skillz playing Dark Sm, i knew he had strong skillz playing sup sm.. both works good imo but vs pet groups i would say Sup, and vs good pac healers also sup

 

[Summoner]

Maybe that we dont run with sm's 24/7 like bc does, and that we run with dark runie - aka. djiin ?

aint rr1 supp sm >>> dark rm aka djiin too?
cos most of the time djiin is soloing.

 

[[CE]Hjendug]

uhm, he might be soloing alot of the time, but if we are haveing a gg and hes on and wishes to join, then sure he come, might be that i know how hes plays and i like the play style ^^