DAOC unleashed

[censi]

Chaps,

Dunno if you noticed but I think cheating has become widespread....

Been getting some strange deaths lately.....

Dont wanna say any names but there seems to be a certain core of opposing realm players (mainly on ALB) that seem to have the uncanny ability to find me and other stealthed players, when I am miles away stealthed...

A typical example (and this happend)... I see a grp of ALBs resting by Alb main wall... I sneek to my BOW ranger limit and One shot a resting mage.
I turn and hit my nitros and Im gone. I rotate my view to see all but 1 of the ALB's give up the chase. I continue to move away from this one last chasing ALB, he is a tiny pixel now (right at the point where he will dissapear from view) I stealth and change direction and break right 90 degrees. To my surprise this ALb is still heading for me (he was alone and there was no pet locked onto me) And he is closing in on me now im stealthed. Not yet at the point of panic I change direction again this time doing a 180.
To my surprise he immedietly changes direction again and is zooming right in on me again.... Now he is getting close (still not within this detect range though (if he was an assasin ((but he was a tank)), so I do one last direction change of 90 right. Yep you guessed it he changes direction immedietly. And bang he is onto me... the rest goes as you would expect.....

Now, If this were a one off occurence I would have just put it down to bad luck... But this has happend to me a few times now..
And other people have told me its happend to them...

There is a program called DAOC unleashed (yes it exists) that extracts the Co-ordinates of all players in the nearby area to you and displays them on a handy little map. I havent seen this program but its out there. Mystic are aware of it apparently, but its undetectable at the moment.....

Now this doesnt mean to say that everytime you die your opponent is cheating... (far from it) But I am pretty sure there are a handfull off players out there using this illegal software....

I will find out where its being distributed from and take a closer look.

But pls post your thoughts and comments here, I am sure some (if not all) of you know a lot more about this than I do.

 

[-Light-]

One word......paranoia Tree hugging freaks

 

[belth]

DAoC unleashed/Odin's Eye don't work anymore (well that's what Mythic & people on VNBoards says), since the server only transmits data on people you see. That'll change with See Hidden again, I guess

There's a stealth-bug that doesn't remove you from someone's target occasionally when you stealth... Maybe the Alb got lucky & did /follow.

 

[Son]

I too believe that certain people are using some kind of aid to finding stealthed players. It happened to me whilst hid in trees away from enemy players. They ran off in another direction only to turn and head straight for me. Names have been passed on to GOA just in case they were being naughty.

 

[Eblessair]

nice one, now the rest of the eu version of daoc know about it..
the only good that will come out of this post is more money in the pockets of the makers of daocunleashed.

 

[Eblessair]

Originally posted by old.Belthazor
DAoC unleashed/Odin's Eye don't work anymore (well that's what Mythic & people on VNBoards says), since the server only transmits data on people you see. That'll change with See Hidden again, I guess

There's a stealth-bug that doesn't remove you from someone's target occasionally when you stealth... Maybe the Alb got lucky & did /follow.

programs like that will always work.
but they will never let you see stealthed players, as that is kep server side.

 

[censi]

Eblessair, I take your point, but it wont make any difference.... This software is widespread enough to the point the most DAOC players will hear about it at some point...

Its better to make people aware of it again...

Think back to UO......
There were loads of gr8 3rd party client mods, OSI (UO's Mystic) only got around to addressing this when the problem becomes widespread.

Trust me its far better to make things common knowledge than to ignore the problem and hope it goes away..

One thing for sure, Software houses do not like the idea of players using 3rd party Mod's. If the proggy is being used I wanna know how widespread it is so it can be addressed.

But yes it is a dangerous subject.

 

[censi]

I don't think we need a link/ss of it too - Brinx

Found this info, Yes this program does exist... jesus reading this site to they are even patching the thing specifically for the Euro servers. I think I have seen enough to say I am gonna cancel my account unless I can get some feedback about what they are doing with this.

Of course they can detect it.... They just have to put a disclaimer where you give them permission to scan your harddrive prior to game launch.... This will require work on there behalf.... (surprised nothing has been done upto this point)

One things certain now... People will be using this.... its being distributed from loads of different places..

Kemor can we have some info pls....

 

[old.Tzeentch]

Yes Censi, anyone with half a brain will right-click, properties, and follow the image back to the site, well done.

 

[- Pathfinder -]

GG brains, etc. Do us all a favour and edit your post, sighs.

 

[old.Enscepti...alya]

From my quake 2 days I know this: It's one thing to suspect you're playing against cheating people. But the more cheats get known and available, the more people will become paranoid and blame every death on cheating on the part of the opponent. It ruins the game more than the cheat alone would ever.

I'm sure if you simply send a mail to Kemor or whoever is in charge of finding solutions for this stuff, including links to the program, screenshots of it in action, and a description of what it can do, they'll work on a way to stop it from working. Putting the stress on em by making it public knowledge isn't good for anyone, so I suggest this thread gets deleted.

Ensceptificamuralya
Lvl 47.45 Warden
<Clan Bearhawk>

 

[_Shurugwi_]

Catching a cheater

It was with great concern that I learnt about DAoC Unleashed about two months ago. As I read the website, forums and looked at the screenshots many previously puzzling incidents in game became very clear to me.

Accounts in the states have apparently been suspended or put under investigation for use of this or similar software. :whip:

As a stealther you are invisible to this program until you unstealth. My mo used to be: Find a good hiding spot, a victim and let rip some arrows. After repeatedly being run down by plenty enemy not even in visual range after my victim fell I started experimenting. Either I really suck at this game or something sinister was at work here.

Stand behind a tree or any cover you know will block your line of sight to an enemy or group of enemy. Unstealth, don't fire at anyone, stealth again and move away from that location. Watch the enemy zero in on the location you were 15 seconds earlier. A location that they had no LOS to, enemy that was usually way out of your visual range. If this happens once its just coincidence, twice get suspicious, three times report the cheaters.

Good places to do this are standing in or behind the tower in emain. The small forests, left right and central to the bowl in emain.

Watch the skalds come zooming over the hill at ligen when you unstealth and restealth behind the right hand hill or behind the trees surrounding the valley leading from Ligen.

Sadly this disgusting cheating is not just limited to the albs and mids, my sworn enemy, but also to the hibs. I have been in RvR groups with /stick on someone running down enemy with such precision that it could not have been a lucky guess each time. Epic mobs in the Cursed Forest are run down with such precision you would think the group leaders set the spawn points themselves.

Nothing will do this game more damage than a growing community of cheaters.

RR5 is worth nothing if you have cheated in order to gain an unfair advantage. uke:

 

[Eblessair]

The epic mobs in the CF dont have a very large roaming range, apart from Blight i think, so it is pretty easy to find them in a short ammount of time.

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Í doubt people cheat to locate Epic mobs We find the LB ones easily; the only one we have to search for now and then is Mordred, who tends to roam.

 

[censi]

wtf you talking about brains?? you seriously think people wouldn't be about to find it using a search engine site??

I mean, the string to search for is pretty obvious and there are loads of places distributing it ??

 

[K0nah]

Ive seen VERY strong evidence of a certain mid gank crew using it, one more time and GoA gets the names (just to be sure) and a certain alb minstrel admitted to using it to another player. Very, very sad, whichever realm they're from.

PS GoA if ur reading - dont arse about with a 3day suspension for this - outright, permanent banning plz.

 

[aussie-]

Ooooh Albs again ;(

well i can tell you i was shot from medium arrow range by a certain ranger when i was resting stealthed



for some reasons he is my nr1 hibbie target now and started already a whine thread

 

[Xero_X]

Originally posted by aussie-


well i can tell you i was shot from medium arrow range by a certain ranger when i was resting stealthed

have also had this happen except it was a mid who got me , im not talking about point blank ranger , i was sitting in the bowl stealthed ( stuipid move by me ) and this hunter was at the alb wall :/

Very dodgy stuff

 

[Tank Init]

if u are in someones LOS for long enuff u will be uncovered and u will look transparent to them, then they will be able to target u and attack
by the looks of it this program helps them to keep u in los so that they can uncover u and attack, dont think it actually make u visable to them just gives a loc, but i could be wrong never used the proggy meself

 

[Novamir]

i don't think people would cheat to play this game. going on the reasoning that i know im quite good at it and dont cheat, and i dont think any players are unfeasably better than me.

people who accuse others of cheating in wierd situations i cant understand. well i have almost 400k RP now and let me tell you as a tank that is a fuck load of grouped RvR, and i can honestly say not once have i thought: x person is using third party software/radar/wallhack crap to kill people.

the only things which consistently bug me and wish they would fix are: archers inside walls, and being able to physically attack people through objects (keep doors) because of lag and /stick.

so pls stop this paranoia, i think it's silly. if someone shoots you out of range, in an odd situation etc it's usually due to some lag.

 

[K0nah]

The reason u dont see any of it is precisely because u are grpd. Its the gankers tool. The ex-UO ub4R PvPerz tool. The win at all costs tool. The "I'm shite and cba to get skillz" tool. And finally the "I want l33tz0r RR asap" tool. Afaik it doesnt show stealthed players which is why this is such a good test (if ur a stealther), wait until a l33t "name" skald/solo type or sml mid gank crew pass u by as they're sweeping the countryside for green cons, destealth behind em and I mean well behind them, way out of camera and watch them turn to you for a moment...

Some archers also have an "uncanny" knack of being in the right place at the right time, could be using this cheat, could just be good/very lucky, hard to tell.

No DAoC aint at CS lvls but its out there and its being used be sure of that.

 

[censi]

Yep, Novo, I posted a screenie of it taken from one of the distributors web sites (edited out by mod). It exists. Looks pretty basic. They have even patched this for the European servers.

 

[Novamir]

Novamir != Novo

there is someone else called Novo i believe.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

afaik it isn't up to 1.48 euro.

that's from the site.

but it doesn't really matter to me as a caster, since I am usually grouped..not usually in a gank squad looking for stealthers etc.

i guess i can understand how'd it hurt you more censi, but i do not believe the information that this tool shows is anymore than you cannot get yourself.

ie, the locations of other characters relative to you are not stored on your pc as it would in an RTS game or so, it would not work really.

this tool seems to get information to information that is already available to you, but presents it in a manner which you might prefer

eg if it is dark and you cannot see well, then this tool might help you pinpoint people.

but since you cannot normally see a stealther, then this tool cannot get this information from your client.

i believe mythic would keep all info you do not need to recieve, on the server, so if someone IS stealthed, then it does not neccessarily mean that your client is receiving packets that reflect this, after all, if you can't see him, it does not matter to you.

to go further:

i can cast an AE spell on the MG doors to try to get a resist message or so from any stealther in the vicinity.
now, i am just testing to see if there is someone about, i have no idea if there is, or is not.

so, my client <the game on my pc>, will not receive any information before this cast, whether there is a stealther there or not.

as soon as i cast, and it does affect somebody, and that person becomes unstealthed, THEN the server would send me packets to reflect this, and i can look for him, and THEN this program can come of use.

otherwise, people can employ packetsniffers to check if there are any stealthers near you.

<which i believe is what daocunleashed is, a packetsniffer with advanced functionality>

 

[censi]

Tzeen, Im not flaming but a few thing you say there are well off the mark.

"this tool seems to get information to information that is already available to you, but presents it in a manner which you might prefer"

The fact that it displays all players that "visable" in your area (or viewing radius) is a massive massive advantage.... Dont need to elaborate on that one... Daoc is basically about who sees who first.... This would give you such an advantage, I dont need to explain why..

"otherwise, people can employ packetsniffers to check if there are any stealthers near you.

<which i believe is what daocunleashed is, a packetsniffer with advanced functionality>"

This program is not a packet sniffer in any sense of the word.... IT would be far to complicated (and a bad way to do it) to look at the packets coming into your PC on the port the datastream runs on... There would be to much other crap coming to make it worth trying to extract the co-ords at this point.....

I think DAOC uses DirectX. Far more likely that they are extracting the information from the DirectX DLL. (far easier to program to)

I am not sure why Mystic has not gone down the legal road to get the distribution of this stopped. Either way, I dont understand why they have not gone down the road of detecting it (which is easily possible)


One final note, for anyone thinking of going and getting this program a word of warning....

As with any 3rd party proggys there are bogus sites distributing version of this software. You may well download a virus version of the software that will probably contain a keylogger. If you do try and obtain this software you deserve anything bad that happens to you.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

The only real advantage in RvR I see with this software is having a 'hud', where you can see all who are around you <not stealthers>.

Seeing behind you is great, but I certainly feel it isn't such a big threat, certainly to myself.

 

[Kobold]

Cheating is just lame. I don't think it's a big problem for EU DAoC yet (not sure if it gonna be either), but anybody using cheats to get things easier than they should, and getting better than others without deserving it should not play MMORPG at all. And if they want to be that dam uber by cheating just play a single player RPG

I think most people share this opinion with me, so thats why I think it won't be a big prob. And if some do it will be reported to GOA/mythic by time and they will prolly get banned.

 

[_Shurugwi_]

How it works?

imho many don't fully realise what this software does.

This is my understanding of how it all fits together:

Firstly understand how DAoC works. I read somewhere that all critter info is sent to the client while you move in a bubble. The bubble is a zone of say 6000 units around you. The moment anything enters your bubble your client receives packets with info about the critter. Your visual range must be around 3000 units. The bubble needs to be bigger than your visual range to compensate for fast moving with speed song and latency.

What this meens in effect is that anyone using this program can see twice as far as any other person not cheating.
They can see further than anyone, behind hills, over walls, inside keeps, behind them, critter con and exact critter level. By 'see' I mean they may not yet see the outline on the gamescreen but on the HUD they are visible. The HUD is the overlayed map display of anything inside your bubble. 360 degrees view.

The program does use activeX and creates overlayed drawing surfaces. It is a packet sniffer as it has to intercept the packets passed from the server, analyse, extract from the 'tons of garbage' what it needs and generate it's display.

Where this screws up the game for us is mostly in RvR. While xping I think it could be a great tool.

Imagine a scout spots two groups of the enemy camped at a location. He alerts his friends. They decide to attack the enemy from two flanks and set themselves up outside visual range waiting for the attack order. One group to attack first will draw the tanks forward and the second team will nail the exposed healers and nukers from behind. Without cheating this would have been great. You are guided by a scout essentially setting up blindly for attack, getting ready to kill or be killed. With the cheat the enemy will have advanced warning of approaching forces and will simply retreat to a safe location or can attack one of the flanks etc. It takes away so much of the game.

 

[_Shurugwi_]

A word of warning!

A word of warning to those using or considering to use this cheating software.

If the developers have already figured out DAoC's encryption routines and they obviously sniff all incoming packets then you have to be aware of the fact that they can just as easily sniff the outgoing packet(s) that sends your login name and password to the server.

These guys may be making and honest, dishonest living but I wouldn't trust some shady third party proggie to have access to chars I have spent days working on. If this proggie in any way authenticates or calls home, who knows what its telling the mothership when it does

Just a thought

 

[Avoca]

My Radar

Dont know if this is related..but I have a type of radar which lets me know when people are just about to enter my clipping range.
My hard drive gives a little whirr...just a little noise as I approach new mobs or players.
I know lots of areas well so I know if mobs are coming.
While killing Greenbarks in Gorge I could always tell when a stealther came close.
Works best in quiet areas while solo so there isnt any background noise as such.
Maybe that little whir of my harddrive is linked in someway to people tracking others?..I dont know.
Anyway I have never been tracked down once stealthed since i hit lev 50..unless I was messing about..nothing strange happened to me yet.
Maybe I was just lucky.
Avoca.