Cryogenics

[Lamp]

Saw a programme last night on TV about a US woman who before her death paid $150,000 (or GBP 80,0000) to have her body cryogenically frozen in the hope that at some point in the future she would be "reanimated" (the actual term used) and able to live again. Her husband has also signed up, hoping to be re-united with his wife sometime in the future.

I have real doubts about cryogenic reanimation.

They would need to repair the damage caused to the body due to the freezing process.

They would need to cure the body of whatever killed them.

Even if these are achievable, no one can guarantee or even predict what the effects are or will be on the brain, and what the physchological impact will be.

Are cryogenic companies giving these people false hope ?

Will bodies frozen today still be there in (say) 100 years time ? Will society feel the same way about cryogenics in (say) 100 years time ?

Will any reanimated people be treated differently in future society ?

How can we try to preserve a body when the scientific community knows virtually nothing about the death process.

Cryogenic companies claim that nanotechnology will enable cells to be repaired to facilitate reanimation. Some scientists think nanotechnology to do this is physically impossible.

I like to think that in theory cryogenic reanmimation is possible, but at the moment we're a couple of hundred years (at least) from being able to achieve this.

In my mind, I think anyone having their body cryogenically frozen in 2006 have no chance of successful reanimation. Maybe in 500 years time - but this is assuming we gain massive insight into body and brain death processes, nanotechnology, massive advances in medicine (able to cure cancer, diseases, and massive body trauma injuries). I also feel its a little unnatural. We're meant to die. Our bodies wear out. We're not meant to live for ever. I feel that nature will always win in this respect.

/discuss

 

[Dreamor]

Isn't Walt Disney 1 and Elvis already cryogenically frozen?

 

[Vladamir]

Isn't Walt Disney 1 and Elvis already cryogenically frozen?

Walt Disney is yes, but didnt Elvis end up dead on the crapper?

 

[Bahumat]

I heard its not the freezing that ruins your cells, but when they thaw you out.

dunno how true that is

 

[Lamp]

I heard its not the freezing that ruins your cells, but when they thaw you out.

dunno how true that is

Its both.

Freezing can result in the creation of ice crystals in cells which irreparably damage them and cause "fracturing".

But emphasis was given to the initial freezing process. Screw that up and you may end up thawing up so much mush.

 

[Pirkel]

I'm pretty sure they will overcome the "technical" difficulties if you can even call them that. If not in 500 years then in a 1000.

However what will be much harder is how do you tell someone. That you revived him after so many years?

"Hi welcome back. We just revived you. You have been frozen for 826 years. We tried tracking down any relatives you had but your family all died in the great Saturn war of 2734.

The good news is that the 2 bucks you let sitting on your account when you died has grown to 343 trillian dollars.

The bad news is that money lost all its value about 600 years ago when we returned to a truelly communistic system based on the equal seperation of goods.

So eh... enjoy your day off... your shift in the nano-factory starts tomorrowmorning at 6."

 

[Bahumat]

I'm pretty sure they will overcome the "technical" difficulties if you can even call them that. If not in 500 years then in a 1000.

However what will be much harder is how do you tell someone. That you revived him after so many years?

"Hi welcome back. We just revived you. You have been frozen for 826 years. We tried tracking down any relatives you had but your family all died in the great Saturn war of 2734.

The good news is that the 2 bucks you let sitting on your account when you died has grown to 343 trillian dollars.

The bad news is that money lost all its value about 600 years ago when we returned to a truelly communistic system based on the equal seperation of goods.

So eh... enjoy your day off... your shift in the nano-factory starts tomorrowmorning at 6."

anyone get the feeling Pirkel has been to the future and never liked it?

 

[Vladamir]

anyone get the feeling Pirkel has been to the future and never liked it?

He's dutch they're always pessimistic

:wub: Pirkel

 

[Lamp]

What if you "lose" the body ?

 

[Pirkel]

anyone get the feeling Pirkel has been to the future and never liked it?

If I had been to the future I'd have checked things like sportscores and the stockmarket and I'd be loaded now.

He's dutch they're always pessimistic

:wub: Pirkel

<3 Waffle

 

[Hansmoleman]

soo, have they not tried to freeze say a mouse for 1 year and then thaw it too see what happens?

 

[Lamp]

soo, have they not tried to freeze say a mouse for 1 year and then thaw it too see what happens?

I don't think so.

What they have done is to freeze a rabbit kidney, then reanimate it, and place it successfully back into the bunny.

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-First_Century_Medicine

 

[Hansmoleman]

I don't think so.

What they have done is to freeze a rabbit kidney, then reanimate it, and place it successfully back into the bunny.

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-First_Century_Medicine

ok, but they should try a whole living animal before a human imo...

 

[Darksword]

yours is a question with many answers....

plus juan?

 

[Ryuno]

yours is a question with many answers....

plus juan?

juan von pablo?

 

[Job]

The big question of course is does human consciousness survive freezing, bit pointless if they revive you and the hard drive has been wiped, can you just freeze all the states of the neurons in the brain and still have you afterwards..

Myself I think its quite likely, the great big YOU is just a collection of chemical states anyway so no reason why you wont just boot up like a game 'save state'

 

[Lamp]

Its all about the brain imo. Get this. What they do now is to drill a hole in the person's skull, shove a probe in there so they can monitor overall brain temperature.

I think they need to be preserving the brain at cellular level, rather than just sticking a thermometer in there and hoping for the best.

IMO, without nanotechnology, (a) you got no chance of getting revived, and (b) even if you did, your brain functions would prob be no more advanced than a small turnip.

 

[Fana]

I, like others, dont believe the cryogenic freezing method we can employ today is sophisticated enough to allow a human to be revived to any sort of meaningfull life. There will simply be too much damage done, and i seriously doubt it can be repaired in time even with nanotechnology - remember you still have to introdcude the nanobots and let them do their work before the patient dies or suffers irrepairable braindamage etc during the thawing process. I believe the only way you will be able to "travel into the future" so to speak, is to actually place a body outside of the influence of time, i.e. in true stasis. How to do that we have no idea as of yet, as we still know next to nothing about the physical mechanics of the flow of time.

That being said, if you have the money and the desire, why not freeze yourself? There is always the outside chanse it might actually work.

 

[Serbitar]

what i want to know is, say 500 years into the future, you have paid £80000 worth of electricty bills for keeping your 'pod' frozen, do they just unplug you?

 

[tris-]

i think the question is what happens to the mind its self after being frozen?

anyone got a good answer for that ? . i cant concoct one tbh, this is too advanced for me to think about.

 

[MesS°]

ok, but they should try a whole living animal before a human imo...

Haha, the whole idea about cryogenic freezing is that it might be possible to thaw someone in the future and revive them.
They arent doing on healty living people btw, they can only do it on people allready pronounced dead. The idea the cryogenic companies are selling is that mayby in the furture, what ever killed you can be cured, and thawing of frozen bodies can be done.

All in all they are selling hope of eternal life, in a bottle

 

[Garok]

More chance in the next 50 years they will be able to grow you a new body rather than use your old one...

Question would be though when freezeing your brain then thawing it and repairing the damage would it still retain your old memories?

 

[Overdriven]

Bump. Don't want to see this thread die just yet.

 

[Serbitar]

Bump. Don't want to see this thread die just yet.

tis OK, we'll just freeze it \o/

 

[confused]

Surely the fact that when you're defrosted you'd go into multi system organ failure. ALso how would oxygen get to your brain if you were frozen...

 

[Dillinja]

It's just another form of suicide.

 

[fl3a]

Surely the fact that when you're defrosted you'd go into multi system organ failure. ALso how would oxygen get to your brain if you were frozen...

i didnt know your brain needed oxygen when dead

 

[DocWolfe]

why would someone in the future want to revive some dead rich twat anyway?

 

[Job]

Let it go people, what ya gonna do when you die the second time?

Freeze yourself again, to be revived by even greater technology that can give you an eternal living body?

Of course the moment they perfect it and can come out and say there's a 99% success rate for freezing and animation half the frekin world will want to be frozen to wait for a better world, in fact everyone who can afford it will be frozen and they'll be no-one to make that better world, wars and civilisations will come and go with millions sat underground in nuclear powered freezing chambers and you'll probably have to wait for a passing alien to work it out and switch us all back on, (might be a good idea to have a self-timer)


Have you ever considered someone might invent an instant-off/on consciousness device, you could set it to switch on/off every second and everything around you would run really fast, in fact you could just set it for any event you were waiting for so you'd get there without the wait, be great for plane journeys.

Opens up the pointlesness of life a bit for me really.