Crime in the UK

[old.Whoodoo]

OK, just trawling through the BBC news web site, Im becomming a little worried about the UKs policy on crime, and who gets away with what.

The first thing that popped into my head was the story sometime ago, of an illegal immigrant who ran a kid over. The law stated he caused death by wreakless driving, and the maximum sentance was 5 years. However, he got out after only 3 years because he is not a British National. Also, despite the fact he had no licence (oh, and got laughably banned for 5 years, lol!), no insurance, the car was not MOT'd, and he was under the influence, dont you think he got off a little lightly?

Then the case of Maxine Carr, the woman who tried so convincingly to give Ian Huntly an alibi for the murder of the girls in Soham. After serving 21 months for misleading police, giving false statements and knowing the asshole did do the crime, no shes got complete anonimity from the press and public as to where she ends up. Does she deserve the right to stay out of the public eye, after all under the "freedom of information act", I can go out and find anyone elses criminal record, health record or library use.

Then the 3 Irishmen who trained Marxist rebels in Columbia, and are known to Interpol as suspected terrorist sympathisers, who have now taken a wonder after being bailed during an appeal hearing.

Now you can also get an £80 fine for pissing up a tree, or puking your guts up in public, what the hells that about? So you go out for a meal, eat some dodgy fish, cant find a public toilet and get a fine for puking in the gutter? F*ck me, soon it will be talking above 30dB after midnight will get you life in prison, and 1st degree murder will get you a holiday in Barbados.

I think things in this country (and possibly others, sorry I dont know your laws) are getting silly, discuss.

 

[Dalmar-Hume]

definatly agree with you - this countrys policy on crime is screwed up
my younger brother is a drug addict and for about 4 years hes been to court about 10 times after being caught stealing/robbery and they just seem to give him a slap on the wrists and send him away (and suprisingly he still does it again). I really think they should get all the petty crimanals and make them join the army (that will teach them some discipline). even prison isnt much of a detterant nowdays though as some have better luxeries than even i have (gym/sky tv/pool tables etc )

 

[harebear]

Make the law ultra hard on serious crimes (such as what that guy did), hell I think they should bring back the death penalty for serious things. Pretty sure that would at least stop crime getting any worse.

 

[Deacan]

Christs i think in America you get 25yrs to life for attempted murder.
I've given up on our crime system.

It was a few years back now, but some Yob broke into my friends house, stabed him twice my friend was only 12 at the time.

They found the person, not sure what they did with him but about 4 months later he nearly kills a Land lord of a pub.

Then this was about a year ago, we find out he rapes and kills a old women in the same street my friend was stabbed, about 3 months ago we finally find out in the paper he now going to Jail.

My friend is 18 now but it just makes you wonder, were they sitting down with their thumbs up their ass the whole time.

And i bet he be free in about 5 years, should give him death row imo.

 

[Bubble]

Don't really want to teach Petty Criminals shoot guns

But agreed on the pathetic stance on crime
For Coldbloodly taking a life, your should be ended.
Thiefs should have a finger cut off for each offence.

 

[Hansmoleman]

Don't really want to teach Petty Criminals shoot guns

But agreed on the pathetic stance on crime
For Coldbloodly taking a life, your should be ended.
Thiefs should have a finger cut off for each offence.

the problem with that is it would be classified as humane, and where would you start the chopping a young kid taking some sweets from a shop or robbing a house?

 

[Thorwyn]

Make the law ultra hard on serious crimes (such as what that guy did), hell I think they should bring back the death penalty for serious things. Pretty sure that would at least stop crime getting any worse.

Take a look at the crimerate in the US.
Death penalty (or ultra hard penalties) are merely fighting symptoms. It will never stop or decrease the crimerate.

 

[Ballard]

agreed, you are a fool if you think longer prison sentences will reduce 'hard' crime. A murderer or rapist does not think 'Ill get 5 years for this thats not to bad' and then kills he does it out of rage/passion/emotion. Increasing the sentence to 30 years wont make him think 'hmmm 30 years is a bit long I better not do this'. Prison sentences are really only for the victims and general populace to make them feel better.

However increasing sentences for white-collar crime and similar offenses may have an effect as the perps likely do weigh up the pro's and cons of their actions.

 

[Rookiescot]

Don't really want to teach Petty Criminals shoot guns

But agreed on the pathetic stance on crime
For Coldbloodly taking a life, your should be ended.
Thiefs should have a finger cut off for each offence.

And if you hang the wrong guy?
You cut the fingers of someone who is innocent?
Dont get me wrong here.....I feel jail time should be very unpleasant. Not the holiday camp it sometimes appears to be but ....
If you hang someone then discover later he was innocent wouldnt you be guilty of murder?
In which case should you be hanged?

 

[Milne]

I have an idea, we catch the wrong guy and kill him, that'll teach people...
and if it's the right person, then you are teaching people that killing is wrong, by killing somebody?

 

[Hansmoleman]

and who would you get to these killings and chopping of the fingers? surely not a normal person somebody who gets paid to murder, i for one couldnt bring myself to kill somebody no matter what they did.

 

[Ballard]

Hippy.


I am a pacifict who has rarely fought in his life, But like most people I probably could kill. It just takes the right motivation. Lets say someone tortures youre whole family and murders half them. And you have a chance to kill him before he kills the rest of your family, what are you gonna do then mr 'i for one couldnt bring myself to kill somebody no matter what they did.'

 

[Comos]

'no matter what they did' lol I'd kill someone for deleting my daoc characters!

 

[old.Whoodoo]

I like the idea of "the punishment fits the crime" but its flawed by the innocent too.

Another example: Reading my local paper, this chap goes to court for 3 cases of burgulary. He coughs up another 15 cases. Having served 3 months on remand, he got 2 years community service and some crap binding him not to do it again. Court costs imposed £115.

So, insurance co's paid out on 18 of those, our premiums goes up, and he gets to walk and do it again. Virtually no financial penalty, dig a few old dears gardens and case the houses while ya there. Nice one eh?

Or, classic is "a driver with no licence was banned from driving for 5 years." LOL thats got to be the funniest one, he didnt give a shit in the first place, why will he care after?

Taking a life should lead you to no life too, I dont mean being put down, but locked away from society, isolated for life in a 6 x 8 cell with no contact with the outside world. Theives also, be given the basics to live only, make them know what its like to want. Rapists and Peodphiles, simple, chemical castration will end their lust for this kind of thing.

 

[Lumikki]

Sounds pretty f*d up in general

 

[Ballard]

Taking a life should lead you to no life too, I dont mean being put down, but locked away from society, isolated for life in a 6 x 8 cell with no contact with the outside world. Theives also, be given the basics to live only, make them know what its like to want. Rapists and Peodphiles, simple, chemical castration will end their lust for this kind of thing.

Yes very black and white. So if someone steals to survive should they lose everything? If someone kills in defense of someone else or their peoperty should they lose their life? and so on... You might want to look into sharia law that is practiced in some islamic and african countries that is very similar to what you describe.

Also what is the point of your 'punishments'? what purpose do they serve?

 

[Thorwyn]

Rapists and Peodphiles, simple, chemical castration will end their lust for this kind of thing.

That´s a myth. Castration doesn´t end the persons bodyfunctions or lust. They just can´t reproduce.

And I agree with Ballard. The usual tit for tat strategy when handling crimes doesn´t serve any purpose except maybe simple satisfaction of the victims (or their families). And on top of that: a good number of crimes are "reversable" acts. When you´re stealing money, you can give it back or refund the victim. You can´t give back a chopped off finger though. And you can´t give back lost lifetime. I´m not saying that punishments are redundant, but I can´t see a reason to punish someone to gain some sort of pseudo-justice.

Difficult topic

 

[soze]

The reason for fining peole who piss and puke in the street is not just because cops are twats they just want to stop people getting silly drunk and causing real proplems. But when you get taken to a cell for the night because you were swearing it gets extreme.

 

[Ezteq]

i get so sick of folks being arseholes just because they had 3 alcho pops and cant take their drink, all these kids wining because theyll get fined for going out and acting like a twat just shows how bleeding stupid they are, believe it or not you can go out and have a great time with out getting so smashed you start a fight with a lamp post then puke on it, then try and shag it.

Where i used to live from thursday night till sunday it was hell, all we heard were people yelling and being sick and the amount of times i left the house to find blood, sick or a comatosed person on the pavement i cant even count that high. It was a nightmare you try and go to sleep and all you hear is screaming, police sirens and things getting smashed up, the amount of time waisted in A&E rooms from peoples self inflicted drinking injuries is stupid, so im all for fining the buggers.

and as for my stance on serious crime........ lets not go there <nods darkly and reloads shotgun>

 

[SilverHood]

Worst case I saw, was someone who caused death by dangerous driving.
3 years driving ban and £50 fine.

Next up (next court case, same room, same judge) Guys drives into a tree. He was fined £250 and and banned from driving for 5 years.

Mind boggling.

 

[Yeke]

The british judicial system is quite frankly pathetic, scum of the earth are allowed to kill/wound/hurt/steal to their hearts content and get away with it completely or get a laughable sentance regular joe with no previous has a run of bad luck does something completly out of charecter and gets the full weight of the law thrown at him....

See this happening all the time both in my home town and reading about it nationally, even the police complain about the court's must be frustraiting catching some of the scumbags time after time, building a solid case against them and then seeing them walking the streets a few days later.

Too much is left at the judge's discretion imho about time we made penalties to fit the crime and get some consistency in the sentancing.

 

[Ctuchik]

Make the law ultra hard on serious crimes (such as what that guy did), hell I think they should bring back the death penalty for serious things. Pretty sure that would at least stop crime getting any worse.

i doubt it.. just look att he states in the USA that still have the death penalty.. those are the states with the highest criminal rating in US.. having a death penalty doesent always mean ppl will abide the law.. theres alot of ppl that do crime somply because they dont have any other options.. (homeless, no chance for work, social department wont help etc etc)

besides.. usually when someone figures out that he will get a death penalty for whatever hes done more or less makes them think "f*ck it, im taking as many ppl with me as i possibly can" and go total rampage with a machinegun or whatever... i mean, hes still gonna die so what does he got to loose?

death penalty solves nothing. and is in my humble oppinion a easy way out for a criminal! why should he die when the victims and or the family of the victims still have to live with the pain! i say make the fucker SUFFER!! giving them death is doing them a fucking FAVOUR!!!

 

[Escape]

The trouble is prisoners cost too much to support (average £19,000/year iirc).
Prison life needs to be overhauled completely and instead of costing money, prisoners should be making it.

Use them in slave-labour positions up and down the country, working in mines, fixing railway lines etc and making the government money at the same time. Once profits are involved, you'll see 50 new prisons open and the average sentance increased by 20years.

Life-sentences will actually end when the prisoner dies :x

 

[Ctuchik]

Rapists and Peodphiles, simple, chemical castration will end their lust for this kind of thing.

no.. take a really really rusty knife and cut their penis off! they cant rape anyone if they dont have the "tools" for it. a chemical castration wont help, they can still have a orgasm.

 

[Hansmoleman]

Hippy.


I am a pacifict who has rarely fought in his life, But like most people I probably could kill. It just takes the right motivation. Lets say someone tortures youre whole family and murders half them. And you have a chance to kill him before he kills the rest of your family, what are you gonna do then mr 'i for one couldnt bring myself to kill somebody no matter what they did.'

thiers this line tbh if someone stole something then no if someone murdered half my family yes. read between the lines

 

[Natswoo]

Personally i believe that the death penalty should be brought back for murderer 1, rapes/child molesting castration. For the less serious crimes people should get lesser penalties.... (and yes, i am a lawyer)

 

[Job]

Was in a Liverpool bar last night next minute this huge black guy walks in, totally angel dusted up or summit, face like a psycho, starts pushing people over then walks over to one of the girls in our group, snatches the smirnoff ice she was drinking and gulps it down, throws the bottle on the floor smashing it.

Then he makes a grab for some guys pint, the guy moves away so he tries someone else, we all just backed away and he staring at us all like a maniac, he turns for the door and throws the one doorman on his arse and walks out.

Jeez it was like a bleedin movie.

Some seriuosly seriously fucked up people breeding in this country.

 

[Ezteq]

Was in a Liverpool bar last night next minute this huge black guy walks in, totally angel dusted up or summit, face like a psycho, starts pushing people over then walks over to one of the girls in our group, snatches the smirnoff ice she was drinking and gulps it down, throws the bottle on the floor smashing it.

Then he makes a grab for some guys pint, the guy moves away so he tries someone else, we all just backed away and he staring at us all like a maniac, he turns for the door and throws the one doorman on his arse and walks out.

Jeez it was like a bleedin movie.

Some seriuosly seriously fucked up people breeding in this country.

its at times like that i really wish i was 6 ft 5 and built like xena warrior wotsit so i could stand up for my self if that happened to me, but as it happens im 5ft nothing and get knocked over by a raindrop.

wouldnt you just love to see the bad guys get bounced on their arses for once? get some bonehead waltzing in to a bar and doing that then getting totally trounced by a ninja midget, i seriously believe that they shoud teach self defence classes in schools or community centres for free, i mean imagine if your girl that got the smirnoff nicked from her was alone and the guy decided to get playful?? FFS PEOPLE TEACH THE INNOCENT HOW TO DEFEND THEMSELVES HERE!!! im sick of good honest people living in fear, sick!

 

[Hawkwind]

OK, what about the woman they just caught in the US who befriended a 8 month pregnant woman. Lured her, via e-mails, into a meeting about dogs she bred. She then strangled the pregnant woman and cut the unborn child from her womb. Premeditated, most definitely. Bad or mad?

They did recover the little girl she took and started to raise as her own.

She is now facing a court with the prosectutor gunning for the death penalty. Does she deserve the death penalty?

BTW the DNA evidence is overwhelming - from the girl she took and the hair found in the dead womans hand as she struggled for her life.

Mitigating circumstances - the murderer had a miscarraige and hid it from friends and family.

So, what do you think?

Personally, I think she should forfeit her right to breathe on this planet. What she did was calculated and abhorent. Some might argue that she is obviously insane and should be treated. Great, she basically gets away with it. Has some treatment and is then put back into the community. Meanwhile and entire family is scarred for life. I think people focus too much on the perpetrators rather than the victims and their families these days.

 

[Thorwyn]

OK, what about the woman they just caught in the US who befriended a 8 month pregnant woman. Lured her, via e-mails, into a meeting about dogs she bred. She then strangled the pregnant woman and cut the unborn child from her womb. Premeditated, most definitely. Bad or mad?

Pathological case. She´s obviously insane and needs a therapy. She needs to be locked away so she´s no longer a treat for other people, but killing someone because he´s ill is not the way to handle that sort of stuff and frankly, by killing her, we would just prove that we don´t understand how to cope with mentally insane people. There are many kinds and degrees of mental defects. Some aure autoagressive, some aggressive, some not. Would we kill someone who´s trying to cut his ownwrists? Then why would we want to kill someone who´s suffering from another variation of mental defect?

I think people focus too much on the perpetrators rather than the victims and their families these days.

Nope. That´s exactly NOT the case. We´re not focusing enough on psychologically handicapped people, that´s why cases like this one are happening at all. This one guy in germany who went to scholl and shot dozends opf people before killing himself.... he was *known* to have psychological problems. But noone seemed to give a damn until it´s been too late.