Cooling and arctic silver

confused

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Ok, with the rig i've got its running all pretty cool, but the only problem i can see it is that it sounds like my office is in an apache... Therefore i'm going to buy a couple of different coolers from stock, for gfx card (7800gt) and for chip (amd 3800+ 2x). I've cemi decided on a Scythe Ninja, party because it sounds kickazz, and it sounds like it works well, and i've got an ultra quiet 120mm fan to stick to it or a Zalman CNPS9500-LED Aero Flower. And for gpu its between the Zalman FS-V7 Fatal1ty Copper VGA Cooler, and the Arctic cooler Excellero x1..

Also i've heard alot about arctic silver and ceramic compounds that aparently help alot for cooling, but never actually knew if they were worth it or if they actually made a significant difference.
So if anybody could shed some light on which cooler is more effective and whether the thermal compounds are affective/worth it, my repping finger will be very happy... pre thx
 

confused

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Seems like either nobody wants rep, or nobody knows the answers :(
 

Neffneff

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if the compounds you r talking about ar the ones you stick between heatsinks and gpu/cpu...then yes, they are very much worth it, a heatsink+fan cannot disperse heat if the heat is not being transfered efficiently to them.

should ALWAYS use some sort of compound between your cooling gear. its very much worht the cost (which is tiny anyway)
 

Skg

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My CPU went down 7 degrees celsius at full speed when i applied Arctic Silver, so yes, it does make a diffrence.
 

xxManiacxx

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Always always always use arctic silver!

If you want a GFX cooler you should look at Arctic Cooling NV Silencer 5 rev. 3
There is not a better gfx air cooler on the market.
 

eggy

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Arctic silver is very impressive; it lowers the temperature by 5-10 degrees straight off.

By the way, the PC world version of arctic silver has been rated higher than the original brand-named compound itself - read an article somewhere. In fact, I once read a test using marmite, peanut butter etc :p

Can't remember what won :(

Edit: here you go http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm
 

Konah

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arctic silver rocks, sure its expensive for such a small tube but when u think that will last you probably the rest of you pc building life, its not so bad afterall :)
 

eggy

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I wouldn't call a couple of quid expensive for the added longevity of your CPU.
 

confused

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eggy said:
By the way, the PC world version of arctic silver has been rated higher than the original brand-named compound itself
Sounds like own Brand cola.... stuff bought thx all :D


my rep finger is satisfied :D
 

Herjulf

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Ok, this is how it is, what it all comes back too.

System temperature!

Get that down and the rest shall follow.
In you computers you have 5 main sources of heat Harddrives, CPU, Videocard, PSU, and chipsets.

There are combinations of solutions to use to get rid of the main heat producers.

1. Duct systems, get the heat OUT and not into the chassi.
Many gfx cards use the air inside the chassi, then send it through a duct enveloping the heat exchanger lamells, then sends the air out through a the back of the chassi.
CPU´s are rarely using this, approach simply because there are few universal solutions. same thing here a box envelops the CPU cooler lamells then sends the air out into a duct and transfers the warm air to the outside.
Chipset/harddrives and PSU. Create a OVERPRESSURE, aka a air pressure greater then on the outside of the chassi, an let air escape near harddrives, thus the heated air will not affect the system. You create this overpressure by using fans/a fan with greater effectivness then that of the PSU and any duct systems combined.
My favourite solution: a BIG fan with low RPM.
I have 2 running examples here at home right now, one fan i saw when installing a "dry toilet", a RADIAL FAN, a fan mounted inside a housing, causing no wing flap wrrrrm sound.
Or a 180x180 DC axial fan, dont matter much what you choose but i found fans with metal moving parts create less sound and last better. Then do a DC potential MOD, and move the (-) lead to the +5V, now u got +7V instead of 12V the fan will move slower and more silent. but u still will move lots and lots of air, thus creating overpressure.

2. Room temperature, if u have your computer in a separate room, like a bedroom. the temperature dont have to be nearly as high as the rest of the home. get it down to 19-20degrees. the system temperature will follow the trend of the outside temperature.

3. computer placement give it oom to breathe, its your best friend gaddamnit, it give you hours and hours of erot... err gaming pleasure. dont jam the backend towards a wall it needs ateast 20cm or more free towards the door or there will be a counterpressure, causing less air to escape.

4. water cooling, it is overall a good thing. but it is typically to slow to reach the best combinations are a BIG, water blocks working on the turbulens approach, they will make more water particles take up heat, thus it works faster. But this will only take care of CPU and in some cases GFX heat, but heat will still fill the chassis you still need system coolers.
 

SethNaket

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I always use arctic compounds when I assemble pc's, but mainly because I think it's very easy to apply and remove. Compared to nothing at all between cpu and heatsink, yes the difference is huge (but noone in their right mind runs a computer without thermal compund). Compared to the standard white strip that comes on every box cpu on the market, it's usually about 2-3 C cooler.

The best and easiest way to cool the computer is to put a big (and quiet) fan at the side of the case that will blow air over the cpu/gfx and create overpressure in the box, like Herjulf said

The biggest reason to use arctic silver is that it's easy to use and remove, should you ever want to switch cpu without switching heatsink or vice versa. It's also good but that's mainly a bonus. :)
 

Jeriraa

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Herjulf said:
Create a OVERPRESSURE, aka a air pressure greater then on the outside of the chassi, an let air escape near harddrives, thus the heated air will not affect the system.

Overpressure is no good. Airflow wont be consistent. You'll have whirls in the case and dust will settle everywhere.

I have customized a couple of cases with different cooling systems. When installing aircoolings you will always want either as much intake power as you have outlet power so the pressure inside the case stays roughly the same as outside or more powerfull outlet fans to create a steady stream inside the case.
The 2nd option is hard to achieve since you basicaly have to airtighten the case everywhere but at the fan holes.

As for fans: I prefer so called radial or centrifugal blowers over axial fans any day. They are harder to install but they are increadibly silent and powerfull.

Have a look at http://www.ebmpapst.us/Search/search.asp. Check for 12 or 24V (the 24V ones usaly run with just 12V too - inaudible and still good airflow) DC centrifugal fans, crossflow blowers and flatpacks.
This is not stuff commonly used in PC cooling but the people I customized the cases for loved me for using these fans.

Also a case with 2 crossflow blowers mounted too each side looks damn cool. :)
 

confused

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I've already got 2x 80mm fans at the back along with 2x exhausts and 1x 120mm fan at the front with another 120mm fan at the side, but they're all quiet, things that are making the noise are the cpu and gpu, both of which have a new fan coming for them.

Thing is that I wasn't the person who fitted on the cpu/ stock fan, and so i'm not sure whether the person put on the white strip, if I put on arctic silver will I need to remove the white strip and if so is it litterally just just possible to pull it off?
 

Jeriraa

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White strip has to go! Peel it off carefully with a razorblade if nessecary. After that clean the surface of the cpu with a soft rag. Then apply a little dot of whatever heat exchanging compount you got. When I say little I mean little. Not more than the size of a match tip. That stuff isnt meant to glue the cooler to the cpu. Its meant to smoothen out the surface of the cooler and fill microgaps in wich otherwise air would stay.
Put the cooler on the cpu and let it slide a bit creating a thin layer of the compound. Take it off again and have a look at the cpu. Use a soft rag to wipe off whatever compound is not on the surface that will conect to the cooler. Put the cooler back on and mount it.
 

Boni

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confused said:
Thing is that I wasn't the person who fitted on the cpu/ stock fan, and so i'm not sure whether the person put on the white strip, if I put on arctic silver will I need to remove the white strip and if so is it litterally just just possible to pull it off?

Full and detailed instructions for the use / removal and refitting of thermal paste and thermal pads can be found on AMDs webbie. I strongly suggest you pay them a visit.

The 'white strip' is a thermal pad, and probably does a better job than any amount of silver gunk. If its in good conditon then use it, otherwise you will need to scrub it all off and replace with a new thermal pad or silver gunk.

thermal pad > silver gunk imo, theres a lot less that can go wrong, and the end result is as good as silver gunk will ever be, probably a lot lot better if you havent done it a handfull of times already.
 

Skg

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Boni said:
Full and detailed instructions for the use / removal and refitting of thermal paste and thermal pads can be found on AMDs webbie. I strongly suggest you pay them a visit.

The 'white strip' is a thermal pad, and probably does a better job than any amount of silver gunk. If its in good conditon then use it, otherwise you will need to scrub it all off and replace with a new thermal pad or silver gunk.

thermal pad > silver gunk imo, theres a lot less that can go wrong, and the end result is as good as silver gunk will ever be, probably a lot lot better if you havent done it a handfull of times already.

I do not agree. Sure, the thermal pad is easier but it is far from beeing as effective as silver paste... I used the thermal pad in the beginning and as I said previously, arctic silver lowered my CPU-temp by 7 degrees.

Removing the thermal pad aint hard so I suggest you do it and use a good thermal paste instead (arctic silver for example).
 

Fana

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confused said:
I've already got 2x 80mm fans at the back along with 2x exhausts and 1x 120mm fan at the front with another 120mm fan at the side, but they're all quiet, things that are making the noise are the cpu and gpu, both of which have a new fan coming for them.

Thing is that I wasn't the person who fitted on the cpu/ stock fan, and so i'm not sure whether the person put on the white strip, if I put on arctic silver will I need to remove the white strip and if so is it litterally just just possible to pull it off?

I had a stock fan on my p4 Prescot cpu for a while, but it didnt cool it enough and was loud etc, so i decided to install a Zalman copper/aluminum 12" fan/heatsink on it. I used Arctic Silver 5 thermal compound as my thermal medium. I was a little scared to perform this operation as it was my first time and i didnt have anyone to help or show me how to do it, i did however read guides etc. Its really pretty easy, just be careful. Buy some non chlorium-bleached coffefilters and some Isopropyl alcohol (can get this from a pharamacy/drugstore, just tell them what you are going to use it for) before you start. You are going to use these for cleaning off the gunk from the CPU coverplate. When you are ready to start, place the case on a firm surface and make sure you have good light to work in etc. Make sure you touch something grounded before you start (like a radiator) to remove excess static electricity. When you remove the old fan/heatsink assembly use a gently twisting motion, clockwise and counter clockwise, as you slowly lift it up. The old gunk of the thermal pad will be quite adhesive and wont let go easily so work carefully (it takes on the characteristics of really sticky chewing gum after its been used a while). When you have freed the assembly you can start cleaning the cpu coverplate. This is why you bought coffefilters and isoprop alcohol, since the coffefilters are antistatic (important) and just the right combination of stiff and soft. The alcohol is a very powerfull solvent on the thermal gunk and it also evaporates within seconds so it wont cause any damage to the cpu plate. Dab a piece of coffefilter with alcohol and start to very gently remove the gunk. Tear new pieces and dab them frequently. This process will take a while but will give you a shining cpu cover plate without any trace of the old gunk. Make sure not to inhale the fumes of the alcohol as they are quite powerfull (work in a ventilated room and take breaks etc).

As for applying Arctic Silver, start with applying a ricecorn sized (not more)bit of it to the underside of the new fan/heatsink assembly and rub it gently into the metal with a coffefilter, this will cause it to settle into the tiny grooves in the metal and increase its heat transfering capacity. When you dont actually see much of a trace of the arctic silver on the metal surface anymore you are done. Then apply another ricecorn size (boiled ricecorn :) ) dab of arctic silver on the cpu coverplate. Dont do anything with it like try to smear it around etc, just leave it (the preassure of the new heatsink alone will disperse it evenly). Then gently lower your new heatsink onto the coverplate. When its settled, twist it 45% slowly, then back again (this is to help the thermal grease to even itself out over the surface). Then fix it in position following its normal instructions etc.

Oh and dont forget to turn off any rpm (rotations per minute) sensors for cpu fan you have in BIOS before starting as otherwise they might not let the comp start with a new very slow fan (BIOS will think that the fan is not operating correctly etc), or at least turn down the minimum allowed rpm etc.
 

Boni

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Skg said:
I do not agree. Sure, the thermal pad is easier but it is far from beeing as effective as silver paste... I used the thermal pad in the beginning and as I said previously, arctic silver lowered my CPU-temp by 7 degrees.

Unless your are running your chips at a crazy temperature you should be fine with thermal pads, theres just no reason to NEED to use silver paste unless you plan to fry eggs on your motherboard. AMD strongly recommend thermal pads, in fact I believe they go so far to say that if you start slopping that silver gunk round your CPU then you invalidate your warranty, not that we care, but its a good indication that AMD think that silver gunk should be viewed as a last resort, and they make the chips, thus probably have a better knowledge of what really matters than us?
 

Fana

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Boni said:
Unless your are running your chips at a crazy temperature you should be fine with thermal pads, theres just no reason to NEED to use silver paste unless you plan to fry eggs on your motherboard. AMD strongly recommend thermal pads, in fact I believe they go so far to say that if you start slopping that silver gunk round your CPU then you invalidate your warranty, not that we care, but its a good indication that AMD think that silver gunk should be viewed as a last resort, and they make the chips, thus probably have a better knowledge of what really matters than us?

Tbh they just want to make it easier for themselves (i.e. tell the customers not to fool around with aftermarket stuff - less customer support etc).

Aftermarket coolers/heatsinks and thermal paste *is* a good addition to any system, purely to increase performance for a rather cheap price and even to increase the lifespan of the components. The cooler a computer operates the faster it will operate and the less stress there will be on the components.
 

Skg

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Boni said:
Unless your are running your chips at a crazy temperature you should be fine with thermal pads, theres just no reason to NEED to use silver paste unless you plan to fry eggs on your motherboard. AMD strongly recommend thermal pads, in fact I believe they go so far to say that if you start slopping that silver gunk round your CPU then you invalidate your warranty, not that we care, but its a good indication that AMD think that silver gunk should be viewed as a last resort, and they make the chips, thus probably have a better knowledge of what really matters than us?

Ofc they recommend thermal pads, less things that can go wrong which means lesser community support. The majority of users are newbies really and hardly knows what they are doing. But if you know what you are doing there are only advantages with thermal pastes such as Arctic Silver in comparsion to thermal pads.
 

Naetha

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Just wanted to say scythe ninja heatsink and fan is awesome >.<
 

confused

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Naetha said:
Just wanted to say scythe ninja heatsink and fan is awesome >.<
too late bought the zalman :p, also the zalman comes with a blue led in the fan which is perfect for the settup... got 3x blue neons blue led exhaust fans green led intake at the front.... you get the idea

just to say, i'm not a noob with comp stuff just i've never used arctic silver before and I just happenned to build two identical computers with a friend, while he put in the cpu i fitted something else in each :p
 

Krait

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xxManiacxx said:
If you want a GFX cooler you should look at Arctic Cooling NV Silencer 5 rev. 3
There is not a better gfx air cooler on the market.

Got to agree with this........dropped my x850 pe agp temps from ~75c with the stock cooler to ~45c Oo

And the quietness is simply divine........ no more aircraft engine decibels :)
 

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