Conspiracy theorists are nutters.

[Jonny_Darko]

Was going to reply to Sar in the other "I'm scared of the world ending" thread but this is kind of off-topic and I started ranting, so, new thread.

I think Bush himself being given credit for 9/11 is giving the man too much, well, credit - he's not smart enough. Rumsfeld and Cheney though - wouldn't put it past them being involved and probably a lot of shadowy faces that no-one knows. Question is - what will these behind the scenes string-pullers resort to when puppet-Bush is kicked out of office?

Isn't it bizarre - Conspiracies happen. They always have, and always will, and the media only makes it easier. It's unfortunately human nature to conspire (well, for some people) and mankind has been peppered with extremely clever and successful conspiracies throughout history. But in recent times how has the media programmed us to react to conspiracy theorists? "Oh, he's watched too much X-Files". People that say the kind of things I've been saying (that America planned to and murdered 2000 of its own people on 9/11) are ridiculed loudly and pointed at (I'm not kidding - this HAS happened to me), and for why?

Convince the world conspiracy theories are silly - and hey presto! You can then conspire in peace. Because believing that any American could be evil enough to kill 2000 of his own people simply to control many millions of them would be totally crazy right? Right? RIGHT? Wrong.

It gets scary when you start to think it's just as possible that John Kelly is having his strings pulled. I don't think that *is* the case - but then again do you really believe those who put all this time and money into taking over will be happy to lose it democratically? They could just be changing their game.

Is it really so hard to believe that there are people in the world already so powerful to pull this kind of crap off? People who have not only the power but the reason (however fucked up)? The American public have less freedom than they've ever had, they're totally and utterly under control, and they don't even know it - they sing their stupid fucking songs about the land of the free and abide by their "Patriot" Act (how that gem makes me laugh). All under the pretence of protecting them from terrorism that their own people not only funded but planned.

We know darn well Bush never won that election. We saw the travesty happen live. Fox simply told the world he did. I remember screaming at the TV! Bush and Murdoch pissed all over the American democratic constitution, flipped the bird at the American way, and personally I believe they both need to be arrested and made a severe example of as soon as NATO or the UN (I don't undertsnad how these things work) or whoever else has the chance. What they did is not, IS NOT OK.

I sense a wind of change, in the next ten years the world is going to hell or going to change for the better. People - us people - the rank and file - need to make it clear we WILL NOT tolerate deception and control. I'm not trying to start a revolution - I personally have nothing against capitalism.

The other thing I hate is that if you get upset about this stuff people tend to think (and say) "Jesus Christ chill out man! It'll all be ok". People just want to get back to their beer and talk about the last game. Well, no, it won't be ok, not really. For many people who have died horribly in recent years it certainly wasn't.

The general public NEEDS to be more media-savvy - all this stuff with the Mirror recently has even made the point over here. Just keep your fucking wits about you, that's all I'm saying. Everyone has a hidden agenda. Me? I wanna get laid a lot more (A LOT MORE!) and for people around me to be happy and safe. Not everyone in the world is like that, unfortunately, and "proper" evildoers (bear in mind "evildoers" in America usually means gays, blacks, potheads and non-Christians) need to be weeded out and dealt with.







Err, if I disappear mysteriously now, that'll prove my point. In fact I think I see a sniper hanging out of a window over yonder...

 

[Tom]

I guess the most pertinent question is, "to what end do these people conspire?"

 

[Jonny_Darko]

Power - it's always about power. Though some reckon it's just to keep the American public consuming - to make the wealthy wealthier etc.

Since I'm not capable of thinking like them I don't really know beyond that.

 

[GekuL]

The media haven't programmed anyone to consider conspiracy theorists silly, it's common sense; if there's no sufficient evidence to confirm something we will assume whatever is the most likely. Remember, just because something could be possible doesn't make it so.

 

[Jonny_Darko]

Whether you believe it's the media or not (and you're theory is, what, that it's innate?) my point remains. Most people will react a certain way to conspiracy theories - and shouldn't, because the world always has and always will be full of conspiring evil little bastards making other people's lives miserable for their own gain. If people opened their minds sometimes then maybe some of the manipulative evil little fucks in the world wouldn't get away with quite so much - they rely on people saying "don't be silly" to succeed - kinda like you just did!

 

[Munkey]

Everything we recieve is controlled. Granted the internet has allowed a bit more freedom in this regard but the people who post the stuff are still controlled by what themselves are told. At the end of the day, how do we know what to trust? Was reading on the guardian about Iranians being behind the Iraqi war, but yet just sounded another reason to foist the blame off of bush, even thou doubtlessly the Iranians would've contributed to the intelligence given.

Interesting issue, but if we start getting paranoid then theres no tellling where our paranoia might end.

 

[Jonny_Darko]

There's a big difference between being paranoid and being open to the idea of questioning stuff, that's all.

 

[Tom]

Jonny I've no doubt there is some truth in what you say, but it doesn't help the cause of the conspiracy theorist when you have crackpots like David Icke, or John Titor on the case does it?

And no, I'm not falling into the trap you describe. Any man who dresses his family in turquoise shellsuits and declares himself to be the son of god doesn't deserve anything more than a footnote in history as a fool.

 

[GekuL]

What really gets on my tits is when people say those that don't go around throwing conspiracy theories about are ignorant. (Because those that do are speshul right? )
One of the quotes on these forums is quite apt for this thread:"There's this thing called being so open-minded your brains drop out"

In my course I take a look at media representation and how people work and, while it's obvious the media are guilty of misrepresentation (oo look, Michael Moore), they are not programming people. Society programs people (not deliberately). It is in our nature to look for the most obvious answer. The majority of those that present alternatives are usually in need of medical help to be honest, so it's no wonder theories are ridiculed, as the truth is they are usually wrong. Most conspiracy theories rely heavily on coincidence and speculation. If there isn't sufficient evidence to back something up, why should people believe it? When people consider what little facts there are and come away with a different interpretation, why are the conspiracy theorists the ones that are right?

 

[Catsby]

Catsby suspects there is money (and power) available to both those that conspire, and those that peddle conspiracy theories. Catsby suspects that there is more money in the media side of things. For qualification, look at Murdoch, Barclay Brothers, etc... They are the ones with the power. Notice how little their influence is criticised in the mass media?

Catsby believes that this is simply a result of the free market and freedom of speech. To this effect, Catsby has not yet been threatened or coerced into making this statement. Catsby also has the right not to vote. He can also choose to be sceptical of what he reads in The Times, or to ignore the emotives underlined in bold in The Sun.

 

[Paradroid]

Everything we recieve is controlled. Granted the internet has allowed a bit more freedom in this regard but the people who post the stuff are still controlled by what themselves are told. At the end of the day, how do we know what to trust? Was reading on the guardian about Iranians being behind the Iraqi war, but yet just sounded another reason to foist the blame off of bush, even thou doubtlessly the Iranians would've contributed to the intelligence given.

Interesting issue, but if we start getting paranoid then theres no tellling where our paranoia might end.

Ta Da !!!

...here I am!


I think the anti-anti-conspiracy argument must lie in here:
"Are you niave? Do you really believe that after all this human evolution, civilisations rising and falling, that today, right here and now, the most rich and powerful people on this planet are doing nothing to protect their empires? Oh, yeah, 2-bit gangsters, and liqour store punks, will kill, intimidate, and, mame, for their own petty little profits, but people who own & control trillion dollar dynasties are above all that are they? You really believe that no one is steering this ship? Would you? Would you just sit back and let events unfold? Or would you try to swing things your way?"

The Bush neoconservatives are said to be admirers of Levi Strauss' political theory, that of a common enemy that will unite the people, in which terrorism is the perfect guise - since you'll never catch them!

Truth, he taught, was the preserve of an elite few who might have to tell "noble lies" to the uncomprehending masses. The elite were to be "the Guardians" of Plato.

Strauss posited the Machiavellian proposition that political entities are compelled to use force and fraud if they are to prosper. He believed that democracy, however flawed, was best defended by an ignorant public pumped up on nationalism and religion.

...and 9/11 was very similar to a plan that was scrapped in the 60's, called
Operation Northwood (drafts).


I had a look at the David Icke site and there's some pretty normal (and interesting!) stuff over there...I suppose I look at it like this: If there really is a global conspiracy between multiple heads of states (a la the illuminati) and these people knowingly, purposely, create wars - killing millions of people - for their own personal profit, then I would probably describe them as sub-human, or not human. Since they're devoid of any empathy, remorse, or, compassion, I could easily describe their actions & morals as reptilian. But when the conspiracy theory states that they are actually, physically, reptiles, from outer space, or UFOs from inside our planet(?), then I think David Icke has some sand in his vagina. The man has a fertile imagination, lets just leave it at that...or prove him wrong(?). (nah!)


...discuss.

 

[GekuL]

Those that believe past conspiracies add credibility to conspiracy theories are just as naive as those that think they don't occur.
Some people believe horoscopes work because people are selective on their interpretations. It is rather funny how people so skeptical of one news source, can be manipulated so effectively by another.

 

[Paradroid]

Those that believe past conspiracies add credibility to conspiracy theories are just as naive as those that think they don't occur.

Wha...?
Eh?
Quasi-profound nonsense?
...and 5 times zero, still gives you zero?

It is rather funny how people so skeptical of one news source, can be manipulated so effectively by another.

You've never entered into the Razzle/Penthouse debate then?

 

[Wij]

Conspiracy theories are not named such because they are theories that there has been a conspiracy as such. If someone claims that Guy Fawkes conspired to blow up the Houses of Parliament we don't call that claim a conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theories as we understand the term in this day and age are a class of theory which states that there are things going on that are being hidden from us by a mysterious coalition of the rich and powerful. Obviously this always an echelon of society much richer and more powerful than the one the theorist belongs to, no matter how rich or powerful he/she is.

The ideas all rest on this upper echelon and the links between them which somehow never get leaked to any other parties no matter how strong the links between them on other matters. Similarly noone ever seems to defect and spill the beans. Or if they do they always get silenced or brainwashed before they get chance to breathe a word. Spectacularly efficient enforcers they must have. In fact something this good at keeping its secrets MUST rely on alien technology. Humans are too unreliable as we all know.

Or maybe it's just a theory with no basis in fact that doesn't hold up to analysis.

 

[Tom]

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=5834001&content_dir=ua_congressorg

 

[Trem]

Excellent thread Johnny, I agree with what you say.

I feel Bob Dylan sums it up better than I ever could -

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead

 

[throdgrain]

Nice Trem

 

[Munkey]

THE PATRIOTS! ITS THE PATRIOTS! THEY'RE CONTROLLING US ALL! DONT BOW DOWN TO THE PATRIOT *schryzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*

transmission lost......

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Standby

 

[Mazling]

As well as the evil illuminati who micro-manage all civilisations and make them fight each other, there's conspiracy in human nature, too. Don't always assume that somebody is above/inside/outside controlling.

Those that believe past conspiracies add credibility to conspiracy theories are just as naive as those that think they don't occur.

Paradroid: This meant that, just because someone said there might have been one, once, that anything new must be true because we suspected it before. Not difficult.

Oh, and creating wars to keep everyone occupied and the evil ones rich, and in power ? 1984 anyone ?

 

[Wij]

Cthulhu thinks ? I thought Nyarlathotep was the only Ancient One who could be said to have proper thoughts.

Ia Shub-Niggurath !

 

[TdC]

Who he was, none could tell, but he was of the old native blood and looked like a Pharaoh. The fellahin knelt when they saw him, yet could not say why.

 

[Paradroid]

Paradroid: This meant that, just because someone said there might have been one, once, that anything new must be true because we suspected it before. Not difficult.

Mazling: I know. I was referring to the fact that GeKuL used the phrase "past conspiracies"....and not "past conspiracy theories". It could be seen as a Modus Operandi (?schpeling?) if it did actually occur, and it makes sense that it would add credibility to a current theory - if it did happen previously.

But does "Once bitten, twice shy" apply to paranoia?

 

[Mazling]

There's an old klingon proverb:
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, prepare to die."

 

[Sar]

Hehe

I do believe that someone within the US Power structure had a hand in the 9/11 attacks.

Bush was massively unpopular after he and his cousin Jeb stole the Presidency from Al Gore. And what's the one thing, the ONE THING, that will unite a people - the threat of the outsider. In this case, Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden, himself a CIA trained operative iirc.

George didn't likely do it himself - the guy's literally too thick to do it, but those using him as a figurehead certainly aren't. Look at what they've managed to do since with the likes of the PATRIOT Acts 1 & 2.

Somebody mentioned 1984 earlier - that's exactly what the Americans are living through atm, albeit 20 years late. The constitution that they've cherished so much for so long, has, in a couple of short years, been completely overthrown, and the US populace haven't been able to do a thing about it, for fear of being designated an "enemy combatant" and likely sequestered in Guantanamo Bay indefinitely without charge or likelihood of same ever appearing.

Too many people are far too trusting and sheep like of the people that they have (or haven't) elected to lead them, naively believing that they will never do anything against their ideals or beliefs.

The only thing that differentiates the likes of Bin Laden & Hussein from Bush & Blair is perspective.

 

[Funkybunny]

doh... i thought the subject was... conspiracy theurgists are nutters... thought it might have been a new daoc-spec for theurgist...

 

[Wij]

The only thing that differentiates the likes of Bin Laden & Hussein from Bush & Blair is perspective.

Yes because Bush is always organising rape-squads to terrorise his political opponents. Assassination is way common in the US and they have a one party state where if you vote for someone other than Bush you get hung.

And as far as Blair goes everyone on this board has been shot regularly for criticising him. I lost count of the number of times I've been ripped apart by dogs when he's sent Prescott's death-squad around for me.

 

[gmloki]

David Icke does pose some very interesring theories on who actually controls the world. If you can get passed the media hype and lies about 10ft lizards he is worth a read.

I am sure there is a line in the bible "the greatest trick played by the devil was that he convinced man he did not exist"

Very true indeed

 

[Wij]

David Icke does pose some very interesring theories on who actually controls the world. If you can get passed the media hype and lies about 10ft lizards he is worth a read.

I am sure there is a line in the bible "the greatest trick played by the devil was that he convinced man he did not exist"

Very true indeed

Great - except for the fact that the devil doesn't exist, so there is no trick.

 

[Sar]

Yes because Bush is always organising rape-squads to terrorise his political opponents. Assassination is way common in the US and they have a one party state where if you vote for someone other than Bush you get hung.

And as far as Blair goes everyone on this board has been shot regularly for criticising him. I lost count of the number of times I've been ripped apart by dogs when he's sent Prescott's death-squad around for me.

I was gonna write "balls to pull off public murder", but thought it a bit obvious.

Still applies though.

 

[Paradroid]

Yes because Bush is always organising rape-squads to terrorise his political opponents. Assassination is way common in the US and they have a one party state where if you vote for someone other than Bush you get hung.

And as far as Blair goes everyone on this board has been shot regularly for criticising him. I lost count of the number of times I've been ripped apart by dogs when he's sent Prescott's death-squad around for me.

Wij....Future Boy!!!