confused

[Nazgul]

that problem that nvidia cards had with hl2 and doom3 that was discussed a while ago has got me confused...what is this problem and is it serious?

also i noticed Jonty was talking about new nvidia cards in the summer are these just the updated chipsets like the flip chip 5600ultra or something different?

thnx for any help

 

[Jonty]

Hi Nazgul

The problem with anti-aliasing and Half-Life 2 (Doom³ was never affected) has now been resolved for all cards, so there's nothing to worry about in that respect.

As for nVidia's forthcoming products, the flip-chip 5600 cards should already be available to buy. nVidia's forthcoming chip, codenamed the NV36/GeForce FX 5700, now seems to be planned for a mid-September announcement, with the cards actually shipping late September/early October.

The chip is rumoured to be clocked at 500/1000 MHz, which is aggressive for a mainstream card, and will be manufactured by IBM at a 0.13 micron level process, and will likely ship with 128Mb of RAM.

Of course all of the above is speculation, since the official details are bound up in non-disclosure agreements, but the sources reporting this information aren't usually too far off the mark.

Whether it's worth waiting is up to. This card certainly should outperform the 5600 Ultra, and thus the Radeon 9600 Pro which is already being beaten, in most cases, by the flip-chip 5600 Ultra, or so I'm told. If you don't want to wait, then the updated 5600 Ultra looks a good buy, but just make sure you get the flip-chip version (how to spot these cards is covered in this thread).

Kind Regards

 

[wyrd_fish]

ATI & nVIDIAS GFX Card war has got way out of hand...

 

[Will]

I've totally given up trying to know about what graphics cards are which. Its just too bloody confusing.

 

[Jonty]

<twoPenniesWorth>

I believe competition, on the whole, is good. It forces companies to innovate, to lower prices, to do their best to gain customers. The only downside is the ferocity with which both sides do this, which in turn means the market changes at an incredible pace. nVidia gained it's position as market leader with it's infamous six month product cycle (i.e. release a product, six months later introduce a more powerful variant, six months after that start again with the 'next generation').

nVidia stopped doing this a while back leaving a big gap between the GeForce 4 and the GeForce FX and ATi made significant gains. As such, nVidia is keen to start this kind of strategy afresh, even though they still hold 60% of the whole market. Rumours exist that the GeForce FX 5700 would be with us far sooner, were it not for the fact that he 5600 customers would be upset that their new cards would be so soon outdated.

But what can we do?

</twoPenniesWorth>

 

[throdgrain]

Originally posted by Will
I've totally given up trying to know about what graphics cards are which. Its just too bloody confusing.

I also have lost the plot tbh

 

[Jonty]

Hi guys

Right, let's have a go at sorting this out, at least partially. This is going to be very rough and ready, and omits a lot of the fine detail.

Okay, there are two main developers in the graphics card market: ATi and nVidia. ATi's range of consumer 3D cards are called 'Radeon' and nVidia's equivalent range called 'GeForce'.

Both companies sell their chipset designs to third party manufacturers, such as ASUS, Gainward and MSI, who then produce their own products based on the technology provided by ATi and nVidia. A third party manufacturer produces either ATi or nVidia based cards, but never both.

ATi and nVidia both produce what are called 'reference designs' for these companies. These designs represent a basic blueprint for a product. Some companies closely follow the reference design and produce stable and cheap, if a little uninspiring, cards. Other companies modify and improve the reference design, adding their own cooling systems and overclocking the card etc. These cards cost more but yield better performance.

Both ATi and nVidia have three main markets: the performance/enthusiast market, the mainstream market and the budget market. For ATi, in respective order, their cards are staggered as follows: Radeon 9800 and 9700; Radeon 9600 and 9500; Radeon 9200, 9100 and 9000. For nVidia, in respective order, their cards are staggered as follows: GeForce FX 5900 and 5800; GeForce FX 5600; GeForce FX 5200. Usually, the higher the model number, the more powerful the card, but sadly in ATi's range, the numbering has become a little confused so this doesn't always hold true.

The main divisions between these 'layers' of products are: cost, performance and features. It used to be the case that ATi and nVidia would produce one performance level card, then strip down features and degrade performance to produce the mainstream and budget variations. Now, however, it's not uncommon for nVidia and ATi to develop all three types of cards separately.

Both ATi and nVidia also created divisions within these categories by producing special editions of each card. For ATi, these cards are suffixed with the word 'Pro' and for nVidia these cards are suffixed with the word 'Ultra.' Thus, a Radeon 9800 Pro is more powerful than a Radeon 9800, even though they are both in the same peformance-level category; and a GeForceFX 5200 Ultra is more powerful than a GeForceFX 5200, even though they are both in the budget category. Usually the differences between the Pro and non-Pro/Ultra and non-Ultra cards are small, and equate only to a small increase in power.

Hope this helps to clear things up a little bit.

 

[Will]

Heh, I understand the theory...I just can't be arsed trying to keep up with them any more. I'm not actively looking for a new card, and with 22? different models on the market, let alone the different card manufacturers, my brain would probably melt.

 

[Nazgul]

there is only one version of the 5600ultra available in the UK by leadtek and this is the non flip chip version and i am still waiting for the flip chip one....

thnx for the help Jonty

 

[Jonty]

Hi Nazgul

You should check some of the online stores, such as Overclockers UK, Dabs.com, eBuyer, MicroDirect etc. where you should find a wide variety of 5600 Ultras now available. I'm not sure whether these have filtered down to the high street, but they're certainly available online.

Kind Regards

 

[Nazgul]

doh there was me looking at ebuyer and aria

 

[Anasyn]

Still leaves me worrying about which one to get though. :/

I mean, you look at it one way, which is faster, GeForce or Radeon, but then you have to look to compatability, which really has crossed my mind what with the fact that NVidia are also producing Motherboard chipsets (the NForce range).
It crops up "well, would a GeForce FX be quicker, and more stable, running on an NForce2 based motherboard than a Radeon 9x00?

 

[Jonty]

Hi Anasyn

In terms of compatibility, you thankfully have nothing to worry about, since there's no evidence to suggest that nVidia cards work better with nVidia motherboards, or that ATi cards are at any disadvantage.

Kind Regards

 

[Anasyn]

Thanks for that Jonty... just made my life even more difficult

Y'see, I have a dilemma.. I'm building a new system (this one just IS too long in the tooth, at an 800Mhz Athlon, 512Mb RAM and a GF2MX)
So, I've decided to just build a new one (bitching only essential supplies from this computer like Monitor, DVD ROM and CD-RW drive)

I've already decided steadfastly that I'm sticking with AMD, not ever had a problem with them, beautiful processors, if a little warm lol.
I have also decided that new motherboard shall me NForce2 based, probably the Asus A8NF2X or whatever it is, possibly even deluxe one.
I've come to the conclusion that I desire 1Gb of RAM, and want a new HDD, cos 40Gb can't cut it for me (just run outta space with all my games and music and anime vids).
However, I've not decided which graphics card would power this adequately, especially as I couldn't give a flying monkey turd (no offence Mr. Monkey) about Half-Life 2 or Doom 3 (no offence umm.. all of you who are, I'm just not much of an FPS fan).

So.. advice?
I'll listen to everyone btw, and make my own decision (if it's not what you advised, don't worry, I'm just taking my own opinions on board too).

Thanks in advance,
Anasyn

 

[kameleon]

asus a7n 8x deluxe definately a good choice
match it with 2 x 512 Mb crucial pc3500 low latency ram

 

[Anasyn]

I was thinking something like that maybe, I dunno, I'll be getting 2x 512Mb sticks though, so I can run at the full 400Mhz the board can manage (only two slots support it as you know).
As for make of the RAM, well that honestly doesn't bother me, I'll be looking to get the best I can for the least I can. But I won't pay for a brand name (Nike style). I'll shop around but got prices in mind and a package so that's not really something on my mind.

As I said, I'd rather make my mind up about the graphics, don't wanna use the onboard, although may use onboard sound (built in 5.1, although I already have an SB live, the drivers are.. well.. not to put too fine a point on it, absolute w*nk, so onboard sound may be a feasible option, might even be able to TALK on teamspeak for a change)
Onboard graphics just take up too much of your system, and when you're playing BF1942, or Desert Combat, you want as much of your system for the system as you can.
Just want a card that'll leave me still able to play games to a playable level in 18-24 months. GeForce2MX was never a looker, but it still plays the games.. well, not NOW it doesn't anyway.

Reason for upgrading in all honesty, can't play Desert Combat on this system.

AMD Athlon 800Mhz
512Mb PC133 (Samsung)
Abit KT7 motherboard
Elsa GeForce 2 MX (original)
Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 Digital (which windows happened to put on same IRQ as bloody graphics card.. DUH! Microsoft, fuckwits, you think they'd tell Windows NOT to do that!)

 

[wyrd_fish]

why not try moving it to another slot???

http://mooses.34sp.com/blue/art.php?art=95

ta dah...

 

[old.Fweddy]

I bought a GA-7N400 Pro motherboard on wednesday, and I'm loving it (though my new AthlonXP 2600+ and 2x 512mb Crucial memory are very nice too). The onboard sound is great, and my computer's more reliable than it has been for years!