Concealed Speed Cameras!

[dysfunction]

I think I have been snapped by a speed camera yesterday.

I was only doing 50 in a 40 zone on the A40...

The thing is I passed a yellow painted camera about a minute before hand and at that time I was going 40.

I then passed a stationary white van which was concealing a portable camera that was under a tree!!
The only reason I saw it was from the flash...and then looking back on it in my rear view mirrors

Are these cameras even legal?? I thought you had to be warned about where they have been planted. I thought thats the whole reason why the other cameras are so visible and painted yellow.

Also about 1/5 a mile down the speed limit changes to 50mph. How can they prove where their portable camera is situated?? I could say it was in the 50 zone...

Do you think I have a case to avoid payment or will I have to pay the fine if it arrives?

 

[TdC]

dunno about england, but the dutch pull that kind of stunt all the time. thing is, due to some legal technicality I believe that they have to let you know where they will be checking / it's allowed to be broadcast on the radio etc. thusly if you have your radio on while motoring there are good odds you'll be kept up to date by the DJ as to where the latest speed-traps are.

 

[Tilda]

I dont know about payment, however, around my parents house, there are policement who setup their portable ones behind signs and snap you as you go passed, the only clue you get is the pair of legs

 

[Cyfr]

Guess they do it when they are running out of funds, instead of catching real criminals not people who are going 10mph over the speed limit on a bloody A road :S

 

[Gray]

Had this sort down near where i work.

One van was for those people who dont pay there Tax i think? Or insurance on their cars (Basically driving illegally). The other van was for speeders, just a mile down the road from a speed camera.

The times they did it was when roads where busy from roadworks on a main bridge, i shat myself, was doing 65mph on the corner (60zone) but slowed down as the corner was sharp and low and behold! the van is there, managed to slow down a bit more. Bit down the road was a cop car flashing, thought i was busted :s.

But i think the Mobile CCTV are legal, especially also if there is signs saying there is cameras in the area (Like the Gatso you went past)

 

[Will]

Guess they do it when they are running out of funds, instead of catching real criminals not people who are going 10mph over the speed limit on a bloody A road :S

If people who should know better didn't break the speed limits, maybe they could spend their time catching "real criminals".

Oh wait, a "real criminal" is someone who breaks the law...

 

[Bullitt]

I hear you can buy a special spray to put on your number plates, it's completely invisible to the naked eye but apparantly it blurs your plate to speed cameras, only works on cctv type though.

It's to do with reflecting the light back or something, You have to import it from America iirc, don't ask where though it's just something i've heard of.

 

[Ukle]

Guess they do it when they are running out of funds, instead of catching real criminals not people who are going 10mph over the speed limit on a bloody A road :S

Can imagine the incentive to the coppers is that the less people speed the less fatalities they have to deal with. Which would you prefer in your day to day job picking the remains of someone off the road or playing with a radar gun?

 

[Bodhi]

If people who should know better didn't break the speed limits, maybe they could spend their time catching "real criminals".

Oh wait, a "real criminal" is someone who breaks the law...

Like people who enjoy smoking the herb you mean? It is, after all, against the law.

 

[nath]

I was only doing 50 in a 40 zone on the A40...

Case closed, imo.


p.s. before you/anyone says anything - yes I have travelled faster than the speed limit plenty of times, but I'm a (reasonably) intelligent being, I understand the concept of a speed limit and what it means to break them. If you get caught, bad luck/tough shit.

 

[dysfunction]

Thats fair enough and thats not what my post is about though.

I was just wondering if using sneaky tactics (like concealed cameras) to get money rather than trying to prevent accidents was "legal"...since they go to great lengths to make the other cameras so visible.

And besides, to me, going 50mph on an A road that has 3 lanes is not being reckless...especially when 1/2 a mile up the road thats what the limit is.

 

[Paradroid]

I hear you can buy a special spray to put on your number plates, it's completely invisible to the naked eye but apparantly it blurs your plate to speed cameras, only works on cctv type though.

It's to do with reflecting the light back or something, You have to import it from America iirc, don't ask where though it's just something i've heard of.

A guy I know had set a number plates that were flash resistant - but I'm sure he said they're illegal.

I can't understand what the big deal is with motorists. What other activities do the police need to pre-warn the public about before they can legitimately arrest and/or fine? Speeding isn't something that's passive and doesn't effect anyone else. There are huge signs already up saying what the speed limit is! All motorists have passed a test which includes speed limits on different types of roads! It's not like the motorists don't know it's illegal! Why the extra layer of warnings? Oh, I'm sorry I killed him officer! I didn't realise this was a no stabbing zone! Or, how about not being able to arrest drink drivers 'cause you weren't pre-warned that there'll be spot-checks?

 

[nath]

Well, having said what I said - you weren't doing anything *wrong*. Legally speaking you knew you were in the wrong, you seem to accept this and as such maybe my snottyness was a tad uncalled for. Generally I don't have a problem with sneaky tactics. I think that the idea is that you don't know when you might get caught out for speeding, so it pushes you to think twice about doing it. However, since you were so close to a 50 zone, I guess it does seem a little silly to have a mobile camera there.

In answer to your previous question, you said you saw a flash, so I presume that they have photographic evidence that you were where they say you were.

 

[Jonaldo]

I also hate it when in shops they have cameras and security guards that don't have big signs over them so I don't know when I can break the law and do some shoplifting. It's just not fair dammit! Why can't they just tell us when we are allowed to break the law and when we can't? I wouldn't want to do anything illegal after all, just break a few laws.

I was trying to set up a major crack import organisation one time and it turns out that there were a bunch of undercover police that busted us all They could've at least had uniforms on and showed us their badges before we allowed them in on our crew.

 

[Bodhi]

Yer, cos speeding and crack dealing are the same thing.

 

[Driwen]

However, since you were so close to a 50 zone, I guess it does seem a little silly to have a mobile camera there.

They might have wanted to make the point clear that even if in one minute you can drive faster, you shouldnt be doing that yet and that you can be expected to sometimes get caught if you do so. This is assuming that the 40 mph zone still has a reason to be there or else it should be 50(or the speed that is allowed in that one minute driving).
Off course it could also just be wanting to write some extra fines and the best spot for that is just before you are allowed to go faster.

 

[tris-]

And besides, to me, going 50mph on an A road that has 3 lanes is not being reckless...especially when 1/2 a mile up the road thats what the limit is.

but was the limit on that stretch of road 50mph? no.

if you didnt break the law then you wouldnt need to worry about the sneaky hiding of speed cameras. its your own fault and trying to get out of it is a load of bollocks

 

[old.user4556]

It's poo, but i've been nicked for speeding on a motorway at midnight doing 64 mph with not another car in sight. I wasn't endangering anyone, it wasn't near schools, there were no pavements or pedestrians; but they decided to make the road a temporary 40 whilst bits were re-surfaced during the day.

They put up a sneaky camera behind a sign. I went through at what appeared to me to be a leisurely pace (although i disregarded the temporary 40) and I got nicked by a GATSO.

Take the points and pay the fine, it's not worth fighting or disputing. If you do decide to dispute it, you may come off a lot worse.

G

 

[old.user4556]

Are these cameras even legal?? I thought you had to be warned about where they have been planted. I thought thats the whole reason why the other cameras are so visible and painted yellow.

There are couple of mobile speed units operating where I live and they're perfectly legal. A discrete white van with a window at the back.

If you're doing the speed limit, there's not problem .

 

[Tom]

Its quite obvious from some of the replies in this thread how many of us are not regular drivers. Speed cameras are not a deterrent, they are a means of raising money for the treasury. If they were at all successful in their job, then the number of fines issued and penalties given would be dropping year by year. Funny how thats not the case.

Dysfunction, there are many things you can do to get out of this. I recommend visiting http://www.pepipoo.com/ and joining the forums there. There are lots of people with excellent advice on what your rights are, and what you can and can't expect. Simple things like the police sending your NiP second class can get you out of trouble. Go have a look, its invaluable.

 

[nath]

Its quite obvious from some of the replies in this thread how many of us are not regular drivers.

I'm a regular driver and yet I have 0 problem with speed cameras. It may well not be a detterent, it may well just be another way of making money for the government - however I'm pretty sure there's a way you can get out of gettiing any speeding tickets and as such, not pay the fines.

Let me think....

 

[Tom]

So you don't have a problem with the government telling porkies about 'safety' cameras? What then would you feelings be if the government started taxing your internet useage, claiming that the tax was paying for a branch of government that tracked down internet paedophiles?

People get in such a fuss about speed cameras. To me, its quite simple. I'm a bloody good driver, I can decide for myself exactly how fast its safe to drive. Trouble is, theres lots of shit drivers on the road (the majority IMO), and rather than take the trouble to teach them how to drive properly (ie more traffic police and retesting), the government just uses their ineptitude as a way of raising money, while cynically creating a myth about how speed is a major killer.

I never saw a speed camera bring a drink-driver to court, have you? Guess who kills more, then guess how much it costs to apprehend them. Then guess which is cheaper, traffic police or speed cameras? Then guess which brings in more money? Pathetic.

 

[Iceforge]

Yer, cos speeding and crack dealing are the same thing.

Crack = Kills
Speeding = Kills

What more do we need to know?

 

[Brynn]

As far as i know i think the camera's in the van dont flash - they are constantly filming. I know coz i was going 50 past one in a 40. Either i got really lucky or thats the case.

You will probably hear from them in about 2 days at a most. IIIIIIIF they do contact you.

 

[old.user4556]

Crack = Kills
Speeding = Kills

What more do we need to know?

Bit of an extreme comparison. You could argue driving too slow can kill, getting out of bed and into the world can kill, ad infinitum.

 

[Iceforge]

Bit of an extreme comparison. You could argue driving too slow can kill, getting out of bed and into the world can kill, ad infinitum.

True, saying crack kills is a bit extreme...

Dunno about UK but in Denmark, number 1 cause of death is speeding, so my statement that speeding kills is pretty fair
(Oh, that is not counting natural causes of death)

EDIT: Dunno about Scoutland as well, just noticed your from Scotland Big G, hmm, was on a school trip there once, Edinburgh and looked at surrounding areas, nice country good charm

 

[dysfunction]

Dysfunction, there are many things you can do to get out of this. I recommend visiting http://www.pepipoo.com/ and joining the forums there. There are lots of people with excellent advice on what your rights are, and what you can and can't expect. Simple things like the police sending your NiP second class can get you out of trouble. Go have a look, its invaluable.

Thanks! I'll have a look at that.


I'm used to sneaky tactics as that is all they do in South Africa...

But I've been driving on the A40 for two years now and thats the first time they have used a hidden camera....so I become very cynical when they use it as it can only mean they are after extra money and nothing else.

I'll now be on the look out for these extra cameras...

 

[nath]

So you don't have a problem with the government telling porkies about 'safety' cameras? What then would you feelings be if the government started taxing your internet useage, claiming that the tax was paying for a branch of government that tracked down internet paedophiles?

But everyone knows speeding is illegal, everyone knows the risks of speeding (well, particularly with regards to getting caught). Taxing the internet is not quite the same, I'm not (necessarily) doing illegal stuff on the internet. If I started getting caught out and fined for my illegal activities online, fuckit that's my tough shit.

As it is, I know there's a very slim chance of me being done for downloading a movie/game etc. However I know there's a much greater chance of getting a fine if I speed on the roads - so I almost always don't and I sure as heck wouldn't complain if I was and I got caught*.


*Not a dig at you dys, you seem to be acting fairly reasonably about this

edit: really it just gets on my nerves people complaining that they get caught when they break the law. It's fine saying that the speed limits are a joke, by all means try to do something about it but if you speed while knowing full well that there are speed cameras out there and you could get fined/points tough bloody luck.

 

[old.user4556]

while knowing full well that there are speed cameras out there and you could get fined/points tough bloody luck.

Agreed.

If you're speeding and you're nicked, then it's fair cop guv.

What annoyed me about my speeding conviction was the "reminder" of speed limits i was sent with the letter:

"lets see now, speed limits on a motorway..... oh! ...... 70 mph! .... I was busted for doing 64...... fuckers"

 

[Tom]

If every person who received an NiP through the post for a speeding related offence took the matter to court, the courts would break down within weeks, and the system would fail.

Just thought that was worth mentioning. BTW, did you know that the NiP requires you to name a driver, and that you must show due diligence in determining the identity of the driver if you're not sure? You can't just send the form back saying 'I don't know, you're the police, prove who was driving'. What other crimes require you to incriminate yourself or another? I thought that in this country, a person was innocent until proven guilty. Did you also know that you do not have a right to silence (as enshrined by British law)? Also, if you ask for a copy of the police video to prove who was driving (taken from the laser/radar van), the police don't have to supply it, unless you're in court (which carries the risk of higher costs)?

The whole thing is bullshit. Its wrong, and I'm perfectly entitled to moan about it. This is my country, I've got just as much right to say how things should be run as anybody else, so what right do a bunch of chauffer driven politicians have to take my money for exceeding an arbitrary limit? What right do they have to say its unsafe to drive at 40mph at 3am in a 30mph zone?

I bet you wouldn't say that people who didn't pay their poll tax bill because it was unfair, and who were later fined and even jailed, shouldn't moan? At what point does a law-abiding citizen have the right to disobey an unjust law?