Company Sick Pay

[Vae]

Hi I'm trying to get an idea of what the general practice is regarding sick pay in companies of different sizes (with the idea of pushing for a change in my companies sick pay plan) so was hoping that people might give me an idea of what they get where they work:

How long are you entitled to on full pay before Statutory sick pay kicks in?
Is there a waiting period (i.e. with Statutory sick pay there's a 3 day waiting period before you receive it)?
Is there a period of lower pay involved (e.g. x time at full pay then x time at half pay)?
How large is your company (approx no of employees)?
Are you aware if this policy varies depending on the level of employee (i.e. do management have a different policy)?

Many thanks for your (hopefully) helpful answers in advance

 

[Rubric]

Hi I'm trying to get an idea of what the general practice is regarding sick pay in companies of different sizes (with the idea of pushing for a change in my companies sick pay plan) so was hoping that people might give me an idea of what they get where they work:

How long are you entitled to on full pay before Statutory sick pay kicks in?
Is there a waiting period (i.e. with Statutory sick pay there's a 3 day waiting period before you receive it)?
Is there a period of lower pay involved (e.g. x time at full pay then x time at half pay)?
How large is your company (approx no of employees)?
Are you aware if this policy varies depending on the level of employee (i.e. do management have a different policy)?

Many thanks for your (hopefully) helpful answers in advance

My understanding is that your company claims the ssp from the government and if they choose to pay you more above this it is a goodwill gesture from them. I used to work for HSBC where it think i got 3 months from then i started. I work for a large water company now and i get like 3 weeks!

 

[Gumbo]

Many places now are doing away with any sick pay whatsoever beyond statutory. It has just become too damn expensive. At my business, with admittedly only a few employees, I will generally pay a certain amount at full whack, but if I think you're taking the piss, then you're straight onto statutory.

With the advice of an employment lawyer, our statements of particulars state that you are only entitled to statutory sick pay, but, at the discretion of the directors, you may receive additional payments. That leaves it up to me. Two examples recently.

1. Guy who has been with the company for 30 years, has a blood clot on his knee, causes some swelling, told to rest it. He had 2 weeks off on full pay.

2. Youngster employed as a trainee, has a few days off with a cold, given benefit of the doubt and paid. 3 weeks later 4 more days off with a 'dodgy stomach', paid again. 3 weeks after that 2 days off with a cold, he got statutory (ie wasn't paid, the first three days are called waiting days and are unpaid) and told that he's had more time off in 3 months than the other guys have taken in 10 years. 3 weeks after that more time off for 'dodgy tummy'. I sacked him.

Another company up the road in the same industry I'm in has an american style points system, so much time without missing work, and you get a certain amount paid, take too much and you lose points and go onto statutory and so on. It seems a good idea, but a pain to administer.

I have noticed, in certain sectors where I have worked, a real effort to take the piss. One company offered 3 months paid sick leave per year. Most of the workers treated that as 3 months extra holiday a year. You can imagine what that does for profitability. When we were bought by a firm of venture capitalists the first thing which changed was abolishing paid sick leave, suddenly the place is staffed and productive again.

I would imagine, in 10 years from now, apart from public sector nonces who already get 30 days holiday and short hours, most places will really tighten up on sick pay. It's just getting stupidly expensive to employ people.

 

[Rubber Bullets]

I get:

6 months full pay
6 months half pay
no waiting period
This is standard across all grades
My employer employs roughly 1,300,000 people

Ok so I'm a public sector nonce, in the NHS, third largest employer in the world apparently.

Gumbo, have you heard of the Bradford Factor? It is either the same as or I guess similar to the company that you refer to. It is a pretty simple, and completely fair way to analyse time off.

Your Bradford factor is the number of occasions that you are off squared multiplied by the total number of days that you have off. It is generally worked out over a rolling period, 1 year in our case, but some companies do 3 months or 6 months. A company could then set certain limits at which warnings and sackings would occur.

In your examples above the guy with the knee would have had a factor of 14 (weekends are counted)

The trainee had 4 occasions off so 16x his total days (you haven't stated exactly, but appears to be about 12). So his factor in 4 months would have been 192ish.

It isn't a perfect system, but it is totally transparent and unarguable, assuming accurate records are kept, and differentiates between people who take odd days off here and there and people who are ill for a while, but only occasionally. 5 days off in one go has a bradford factor of 5, but 5 days off as single days here and there is 125.

RB

 

[Gumbo]

Sounds good RB, I think if I employed more than I do, (4, but will be 5 soonish plus me) I would definately implement something along those lines. As it is, directors discretion suits me fine. With such a small workforce, I would soon be found out if I didn't apply that discretion even handedly.

One thing too, people seem to believe that they are entitled to take time off, paid, for things like doctors and dentist visits etc. This is not the case, unless you are pregnant. Now I don't mind at all letting people nip out for that, or even nip out to meet a delivery man with a washing machine or something. On that basis I'm fairer than a lot of employers, I don't demand that the lost time is made up or anything. Equally, if we need someone to stay behind for a half hour, because someone is late returning or something, I won't expect that to become a claim for overtime. I, and my employees, like this flexible approach. Once again though, I can see that there will come a time when things have to be far more rigid, both ways really.

It's interesting, but the guys who don't take the piss, the ones you don't mind nipping out to meet the washing machine dude, and wait behind without moaning, are the older guys, say, 35 plus. Try and get a late teen, or early twenties guy to see that it does in fact benefit him and it's a whole other kettle of fish.

The trainee I let go, I was paying about a year or so, and a skill level or so, higher than the industry recommended pay structure. We also have a slightly higher holiday allocation here than the norm, and like I said above, I paid him for his time off the first couple of times, again, outside the industry norm, which is just SSP. Unfortunately, he couldn't see that he was being really well treated, and continued to take the piss. It wasn't just the time off 'sick', he was late often and occasionally very lazy.

Talking to other employers it seems that this is now the norm for most 16 to 20 year olds or so. No sense of responsibility, no work ethic, and an opinion that they are entitled to be employed, rather than realising that they have to work for it, and earn the right to be respected and valued as an employee.

I need to employ one more person really, when the summer starts, and that would normally be a youngster that we can train up, hopefully to move from general 'lad' to boatbuilder. (I better say lass aswell, or fall foul of sex discrimination legislation) I am really thinking of just going for an older person, already qualified. It'll cost more in the short term, but you reach a point where you're just fed up of people who think they can have a free ride.

That or get in a Pole, but that's another debate.

We'd better get back on Vae's topic now, or he'll get upset.

 

[cHodAX]

I worked for Nextra, after my second spinal surgery I recieved full pay for 6 months before going onto SSP. I had worked for the company for about 5-6 years at that point but as far as I am aware all employees were entitled to the same after 12 months employment.

 

[Vae]

Ok thanks for the responses so far now I just need more of them to get an idea what normal in the private sector. (We can save arguements about Public sector sickpay vs private sector for another thread )

 

[Will]

I'm at Virgin Media. If you have been here for less than 6 months, you only get SSP. Up to 3 years, its 65 days on full pay before you go onto SSP, and after that, its 130 days before SSP.

 

[soze]

After your trial period (3months) you get paid from day one and if i am off sick for four or more days i need a doctors note. There are also rules for maximum sick leave before they can terminate my contract but i have no idea what they are.

 

[Pfy]

We get sick pay if you've been with company for 1+ year, upto 4 years you then get upto 4months full pay. 4 years+ 6months full pay. iirc.

All sick days require a private medical note (generally £10 charge) or you only receive SSP. That means one day off due to a headache and you have to see the doctor and pay for a note.

We also have a system called MFA (Management for Attendance) whereby instances of sick are monitored. 2x instances in 13 weeks = stage one, another instance within 52 weeks = stage 2, get to stage 3 and you're dismissed. thankfully this doesn't appertain to me as I'm a different grade

Thats about as much I can remember I'm afraid.

Company employs a good few thousand people.

 

[mycenae]

You know what my company policies are, as I am also in the NHS. Although, in the new job, the have brought in a new policy for sickness, whereby you have to report in to your team leader as soon as you're back and explain why you've been off etc etc....if you have 2 episodes of sickness in 13 weeks, you get and informal warning and it escalates with more episodes of sickness over time.

 

[old.user4556]

I get:

When sick I can self certify for 7 days, any longer off work and I need a doctor's line. Then:

6 months full pay
6 months half pay
60,000 employees (i work for a PLC)

 

[SAS]

New joiners for the first year get SSP after being sick more than 3+ days in a row sick.
After 12 months:

6months full pay
6months half pay
Then SSP.

But the company uses a stage warning process. If you get to stage 3 you can face dismissal...

 

[Dukat]

It's interesting, but the guys who don't take the piss, the ones you don't mind nipping out to meet the washing machine dude, and wait behind without moaning, are the older guys, say, 35 plus. Try and get a late teen, or early twenties guy to see that it does in fact benefit him and it's a whole other kettle of fish.

...

Talking to other employers it seems that this is now the norm for most 16 to 20 year olds or so. No sense of responsibility, no work ethic, and an opinion that they are entitled to be employed, rather than realising that they have to work for it, and earn the right to be respected and valued as an employee.

I need to employ one more person really, when the summer starts, and that would normally be a youngster that we can train up, hopefully to move from general 'lad' to boatbuilder. (I better say lass aswell, or fall foul of sex discrimination legislation) I am really thinking of just going for an older person, already qualified. It'll cost more in the short term, but you reach a point where you're just fed up of people who think they can have a free ride.

That or get in a Pole, but that's another debate.

We'd better get back on Vae's topic now, or he'll get upset.

At the risk of moving further off topic; I just wanted to say how suprised I was to hear that people roughly my age are like this. I'm 22, I've been a student for 5 years and tbh, my college attendance after the first year was very poor, but I've always seen education and work as two very different things, since I've started working (just over a year) I've had one day off, and tbh I was mortified about it for months afterwards. I'd always imagined my friends and others my age to be far better than me with regards to attendance, seeing as in education I was the always worst by clear miles.

Just wanted to say how I was suprised to hear your experiences in this regard Gumbo.

 

[TdC]

depends on the boss Dukat, imo. at my work they're almost surprisingly liberal about illness, because our IT, of which I am one, tend to be highly stressed individuals under huge workloads/timelines/etc. the boss says "ill is ill" meaning if you're sick then fgs stay away, but don't take the piss. also, there is some kind of unwritten law that you're allowed a day off for unclear reasons, which is ofc a grey area.

I call my coordinator, tell him I am ill, and then I'm on sick leave as far as the company is concerned, with one waiting day before full pay kicks in. Ofc, if I am away for a long period of time then they will start asking after a doctor's report or a visit to the company doctor, unless it's perfectly clear what's up; for example, when I broke my leg, and had to have an operation, I was off work for something like 5 weeks, and nobody batted an eyelid. My boss did come to visit me at home, but not "officially", and some other colleague's also visited (mostly to write nasty things on my cast). However, were I to take the same period off sick with no clear indication of what was wrong, they will be acting win a different manner I kid you not.

Imo, you are perfectly entitled to be ill. Ill is ill, and you can do nothing about it, but from talking with UK friends I have heard on occasion things like "I can't be ill because I'll get a warning", or "I've already been ill this quarter" or words to that effect. I find that a hard line to walk, because the company is clearly giving out a message that I am somewhat disinclined to agree with, but then the laws are very different between Holland and the UK :/