Christians and evolution

Shneddi

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christians that live in the western half of the world in general do...
how can they believe in god and leave millions of people starving all over the world???

i say if they really beleived in god theyed by out there helping people , not just donating 10 to charity....
 

Job

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As much as I despise blind belief, the evolution theory is just that, a theory ,yet to be proven.
History is littered with theories that at the time were seen as abseloute undeniable fact, only to be shown as total bunkum years later.

I'll add 2 present favourites to that list, Black holes and the Big Bang theory, soon to be proven to be bollacks, mark my words.

1950's military maps of Mars still had canals on them, it was established fact until the first probe got there that there were intelligently built waterways all over the surface, they were gutted when they found an empty rock.
 

harebear

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It is however a theory based on facts, unlike pretty much all the stuff in the Bible.
 

Chesnox

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Job said:
As much as I despise blind belief, the evolution theory is just that, a theory ,yet to be proven.
History is littered with theories that at the time were seen as abseloute undeniable fact, only to be shown as total bunkum years later.

I'll add 2 present favourites to that list, Black holes and the Big Bang theory, soon to be proven to be bollacks, mark my words.

1950's military maps of Mars still had canals on them, it was established fact until the first probe got there that there were intelligently built waterways all over the surface, they were gutted when they found an empty rock.

Evolution is one of those scientific postulations that can't really be 'proved' in human terms, since the timescales involved are enormous. But its pretty daft to deny that evolution takes place simply because in the 100 or so years since the theory was advanced we havn't been able to 'prove' it. Like anything "sciency", it needs to be proved beyond doubt to convince the naysayers, but any theory needs an adversary. And if creationism is evolutions nemesis, then evolution is safe, since obviously creationism is utterly ludicrous when subjected to any analysis. Whereas evolution isn't :)

As for black holes, you are wrong. The astronomical phenomena we call Black Holes can and do exist, since they are just the latter stage of most stars lifecycle. Would be interesting to read any articles you have found on the "bollacks"-ness of black holes tho....
 

Vindicator

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Just because somebody has blind faith in something you despise them? I'm sure you piss off religous people just as much with your arrogant superior attitude. I mean who are you to tell people what they should and shouldnt believe in ? Forget that, who are you to judge somebody based solely because they believe in something that goes deeper that any man can explain.

I'm not christian my self. I dont think the christian's are stupid / annoying / dispecable just because they dont think like I do. I respect there choice to believe in something without anybody asking them to examine the evidence and facts, in fact part of me admire's them that they can actually have blind faith. It's something I cant do my self, I need to believe in it my self by seeing / reading / testing certain things. The only way I have had blind faith in my life is in my family and close friends, I trust them no matter what comes up. If everything depends on my brother doing something for me, I can be sure I have faith in him that he will do the right thing for me etc.

So dont be so judgemental and close minded in people and there beliefs. I know you think your actually extremely open minded but with those kind of statements you prove the exact opposite, to be truly open minded you must consider every possibility and also respect other's choice / faith.

The americans in that thread are amazing evidence of just how bad the school system is to begin with. They lack any understanding of what they talk about, both the pro and anti side's on that debate. It's like 2 blind gerbils running around a maze of the actual truth and slamming into walls every once in a while screaming " There is no wall!". Unbelievable really. Thanks for the laugh Harebear.
 

Marc

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harebear said:
It is however a theory based on facts, unlike pretty much all the stuff in the Bible.

You know, if you actually knew what you were talking about, and actually looked further than the end of your nose you would find that a lot of the bible has actually been proven to be true.
 

Marc

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and if you hate religion, i guess you dont celebrate christman either then? You know, that time near the end of the december, do you actually know what christmas is? Well if you dont believe in Jesus why celebrate his birthday?
 

Gajinn

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What exactly has been proven to be true in the Bible? That the earth was created around 6000 years ago, or that was a wee flood some years ago that wiped out all life and made us all inbreeds?
 

Dillinja

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Marc said:
and if you hate religion, i guess you dont celebrate christman either then? You know, that time near the end of the december, do you actually know what christmas is? Well if you dont believe in Jesus why celebrate his birthday?

Christmas has become more tradition-based than religion-based over the years tbh, which is why a lot of people who do not even go to church still celebrate it, me for example.
 

Outlander

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celebration at Christmas time is actually less Christian that most people think, the tradition originated from the Pagans and was one of the many festivals that the Christian church over threw when the romans were in power. A lot of it was basically spin doctor stuff to try and make Christianity look good hehe, hence why so many aspecs of Christmas are not related to Christ or Christianity in any way. Just what I learnt studying Religion at Uni but everyone has there own ideas and theories Im just saying what I know :) feel free to say I talk crap I dont care :)
 

Jugvayne

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I don't mind reigious people in general, but when you come across evangelists and people who try to shove their agneda down your throats then well....they can fuck off. Also people who say "oh the REAL meaning of christmas is christ's birth, by celebrating it you aknowledge....blah blah", piss me off, since christmas isn't about christ's birth to everyone.
 

Morchaoron

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Job said:
As much as I despise blind belief, the evolution theory is just that, a theory ,yet to be proven.
History is littered with theories that at the time were seen as abseloute undeniable fact, only to be shown as total bunkum years later.

maybe we were created by aliens!!

sounds alot more believable then the god theory anyway...
 

Ingafgrinn Macabre

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Everybody has the right to believe what they want to believe, that is correct, but about creatism or evolutionary theory, it is just that the latter is based on research (dug up skellies and stuff) and the first is based on written story which is in fact a story told from generation to generation before it's written down.
Have you ever did that game when you sit in a circle with a bunch of people, and the first person whispers a word to the second, who whispers it to the third.... and goes on untill it reaches the first person again and you find out that it isn't even close to the word you start out with?........
And besides this... the way those people on that other forum know the creatism telltale is the way it happened and just throw away all the other facts that are <not interresting> or <can't be true cos it's not what the bible says> is just sad imo.
also, have you seen them talk about evolution or adaptation?
they seem to have conveniently forgotten that adaptation is learning to work with your environment without changing any biological features, ie. before adaptation the build of the organism (be it a human or a virus or a bacteria) is exactly thesame as afterwards, however should the make-up of the organism change, and this can be seen by offspring having thesame changed features by birth, it is called evolution. And the latter is what happened to the bacteria.
And ohw... adam and eve? eve being moulded from one of adams ribs... women would've been very very tiny then :p

And for proof that the bible is based on facts? Somehow conspiracy theories can always find proof for their cause aswell....

the above shows... this is exactly why education and state religion shouldn't be mixed.



gajinn said:
<snip> .. made us all inbreeds?
<looks around on a saturday night in the pub> Quite believable ;)
 

Wij

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Chesnox said:
Evolution is one of those scientific postulations that can't really be 'proved' in human terms, since the timescales involved are enormous. But its pretty daft to deny that evolution takes place simply because in the 100 or so years since the theory was advanced we havn't been able to 'prove' it. Like anything "sciency", it needs to be proved beyond doubt to convince the naysayers, but any theory needs an adversary. And if creationism is evolutions nemesis, then evolution is safe, since obviously creationism is utterly ludicrous when subjected to any analysis. Whereas evolution isn't :)

As for black holes, you are wrong. The astronomical phenomena we call Black Holes can and do exist, since they are just the latter stage of most stars lifecycle. Would be interesting to read any articles you have found on the "bollacks"-ness of black holes tho....

*agree*
 

Conchabar

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adam and eve was a story more then a fact :p

religion is an easy cop out imho.. the human mind needs sumthing to belive in.. we need to understand why things happen ... the early mind needed to understand why things happened the way they happened... so religion was made? maybe there is a god maybe im speaking aload of bullshit.. maybe the ppl who starve in places like africa are really just bad ppl god is punishing.. maybe the reason ppl die at young ages is because there bad?

in my eyes the bible is a story that ppl talked about to pass time... yes it says that there was a person called jesus so says roman records... yup so this guy called jesus told aload of stories got followers who belived these storys because they had nothing better to do... this guy called jesus was abit of a nutter and he knew alot about medicine? sum ppl called these ppl witches in england :)

it would be nice to belive that there is a heaven or w/e any religion belives... but common sense would eradicate any possible belief in such a thing <i would belive>
 

Lumikki

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So what do you believe is going to happen to you after you die Conch?
 

Painbringer

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black holes do exist, there is at least one in every galaxy, they are at the centre of every galaxy, even ours. how does religion explain dinosaurs and the fact that our planet was once part of the Sun at the beginning of the solar system? our solar system didn't even exist in the beginning as our Sun is a 2nd, possibly 3rd generation star. ofc no one knows about the big bang being true or not, at this time there is no way of telling, nearest scientists can predict is a few seconds before the event. also if string theory or M-theory is correct then the big bang theory is bollocks anyway as they theorize that the big bang could have been a collision between 2 or more realities/universes.

I won't go into anymore detail i made my point, no one knows about the 'big bang' for definite, but 'Black Holes' do exist, there is one affecting us this very moment. and ofc aliens DO exist, there is approximately 100 billion stars in our galaxy alone, most with their own solar systems with planets, you would have to be naive to think that our planet is the only one that can support life ;)
 

harebear

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A while ago I talked with some Christians who believed that Dinosaurs were placed on Earth by Satan to trick us. Woo!
 

Kokelimonkelmedisin

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Morchaoron said:
maybe we were created by aliens!!

sounds alot more believable then the god theory anyway...

there are alot of ppl who beleve that allso, they allso beleve that many acient egyption
stone tablets has alien spacesship controllpanels pictured on em.
And all the drawings with the horses and crap that only look like piles of stones
from the ground but looks like animans and whatnot from the air was
made by the same aliens that made us.


And they beleve that the aliens who made us made the human women so hot that some of
the aliens had sex with the women and the offspring became the giants that
the bible tells us about :eek:


that beeing said I do beleve that there is alot of things a humans mind can't grasp
and I beleve that there is something that is greater than us, greater then ouer existance,
thats what I beleve :p
 

Marc

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If god didnt create the world who did? The aliens? Who created them? You see, like anything in life, there has to be a definitive beginning and end. I dont know much about the "big bang" theory, but as for as I can gather it something about gases combining? I honestly dont know and cba googling it. However, if it as about gases, where did they come from? Where is the start of life? DOnt flame me, im genuinly interested!
 

Dillinja

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harebear said:
A while ago I talked with some Christians who believed that Dinosaurs were placed on Earth by Satan to trick us. Woo!

There are other ones who believe that God put them there to test our faith. Hmm.
 

sibanac

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Marc said:
If god didnt create the world who did? The aliens? Who created them? You see, like anything in life, there has to be a definitive beginning and end. I dont know much about the "big bang" theory, but as for as I can gather it something about gases combining? I honestly dont know and cba googling it. However, if it as about gases, where did they come from? Where is the start of life? DOnt flame me, im genuinly interested!
who created god ?
While there probably never will be proof of the big bang, there are alot of things that point in that general direction.
 

Sendraks

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Dillinja said:
There are other ones who believe that God put them there to test our faith. Hmm.

Ah yes, the tale of Jesus and the Brontosaur, who had a splinter in its paw.

But Jesus did remove the splinter, and the Brontosaur became his friend.

And Jesus sent him to Scotland.....



I love Bill Hicks.
 

Archeon

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If there is a God he's probably lost interest in us, what other explanation is there for suddenly wondering off? He used to be all with it... what with the floods... and the smiting of non-believers... if he is still around he's probably something like This

Though that doesn't necessarily mean belief is a bad thing... I mean after all, our history wouldn't be so celebrated if people used words like "Mass Genocide" instead of "Religious Crusade" or "Holy War"


I do apologise if you are religious, for what it's worth I don't normally voice my own religious opinions mostly because I realise they can be taken so offensively. But look at it this way, if I am wrong then when I die I’ll be burning in hell with all the other Godless heathens while your up in the rafters playing a harp and ogling the Angels right?


Marc said:
I don’t know much about the "big bang" theory, but as for as I can gather it something about gases combining? I honestly don’t know and cba googling it. However, if it as about gases, where did they come from? Where is the start of life?

As I understand it, the current theory is that the gases used for this Big Bang were leftover from the Big Crush (It's probably got a more technical name) - according to scientists the universe is constantly expanding, so at some point it will stop and start to contract, collapsing on itself and then blowing up again starting the whole shitty mess off all over again.

Where they originally came from though... who knows? There are plenty of things science has yet to explain, whether this is because there is no scientific explanation, or because our science isn't advanced enough yet we probably won't know in our lifetime.


And finally, because there are probably still some people out there I haven’t pissed off yet. The reason they're probably changing the curriculum is because their forever condensing the academic system in an effort to make people smarter, in this case it's probably a bad idea. If your only taught to think in one way then what happens when you meet people who think differently? Just look on these forums, the bulk of 'conversation' is people trying to force other people to think their way, this post isn't any different.

Government should just keep their nose out of education, it isn't their job. There job is collecting money and distributing it fairly to public services (Insert Sarcastic Laugh Here if you live in England) so they can do their job, which in this case is to properly educate youngsters. What people fail to realise is that the academic side is only half of the education people receive.
Personally I think lessons like Religious Education (Fairly self-explanatory), Design Technology (building stuff), Drama (see my whine about faith), and even Home Economics (cooking and sewing) are all just as important. If anything to allow students a break in between being taught parrot fashion from some Government approved Textbook. Yet they are being cut back in order to make room for more mind-numbing parrot fashion teaching. Point and case; When I was at secondary school (11 to 16) there was 1 RE lesson a week, even when we started our GSCE's - my brother went to the same school a few years after I’d left and there was now only 1 RE lesson every 2 weeks, also RE had been 'changed' in order to fit in all the stuff you learn in Social Education as well (how to put on a condom/use the pill. Why it's bad to rob a shop and Why you should be nice to that guy you pick on because one day your going to walk into an interview and he's going to be sitting across the table trying to decide if the guy who gave him wedgies when he was 12 is good enough to empty his office bin) - so really it was like losing three lessons and having it compressed into 1 to make space for more English, Math and Science...

Oh, and because I know some smart-ass will come along and say "But you don't do anything in those lessons" well to you I say, that’s the whole damned point. Education isn't just about cramming as much crap into kids heads as you can before their legally old enough to join the army and get shot in Iraq or whatever the next 'Area Of Tension' will be (and there will be another, there's always another!). It's also about making sure they can think for themselves, and more importantly. Look after themselves, because lord only knows the parents can't be trusted to do it. Their too fucking busy spending the benefits money they receive from the government, or working in their own cramped little cubicles sending out letters asking if the recipient would like to switch to British Gas or something like that.


... Ok, whine over. If your still not pissed off then... Umm... I hate you personally, and I hope you slip on a banana peel or something... a mouldy banana peel... I'm also going to egg your house.

Yours in pointless angst
- Archeon.
 

Job

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Black holes are still just theoretical, they are based on the extension of present knowledge, seem totally reasonable? Yes, but so did all the other bollocks we have come up with in the past.

The Big Bang has more do with ego's than science, they keep finding stuff to agree with the theory but also brush every single bit of opposing data under the carpet.

When I say 'they', I'm talking about the side that has the most popular support, the guys with the higher scientifc positions, the greater funding, they buy their theories airtime.

That 'bought' airtime is what people like us get fed and take as total fact.

The metaphysical guess world of huge equations on blackboards and sub-quantum physics has a side to it that belongs in the fashion industry, who tells the best story, who looks like a proper crazy genius.

As for blind faith, why do you believe?
Cos your parents told you too.
'Not me!' you shout.
Well that's funny cos that's the story for 99.99999% of your fellow believers.
 

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