Chanter nerf a good thing?

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iziz-minx

Guest
I think the up and coming chanter focus nerf will be a good thing for the realm more tank groups.

Focus pulling was killing the fun in the realm pet pulling is so damm boring.

Iziz out.
 
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Amadon

Guest
Imo it's the xp treadmill that's boring, and the focus nerf (if it comes) will make it worse. Also you'll see fewer and fewer casters xping because the caster lot in RvR gets worse every patch (1.64 - new weapons = caster nerf), and casters suck for end game PvE (ie epic encounters), and mana enchanters will most likely have some nerf inc to the heat debuff/nuke, so they will no longer be viable in RvR (ie. they'll be as bad as most other casters then).
Hib is very reliant on mages for dealing damage in RvR, and currently mages don't do so, the one that does is getting nerfed, so it's going to make tank rvr groups much more prevalent, negating any advantage that Hib has from the utility of their mages.
It's going to fuck things up even worse imo.
 
V

VodkaFairy

Guest
Originally posted by Amadon
Imo it's the xp treadmill that's boring, and the focus nerf (if it comes) will make it worse. Also you'll see fewer and fewer casters xping because the caster lot in RvR gets worse every patch (1.64 - new weapons = caster nerf), and casters suck for end game PvE (ie epic encounters), and mana enchanters will most likely have some nerf inc to the heat debuff/nuke, so they will no longer be viable in RvR (ie. they'll be as bad as most other casters then).
Hib is very reliant on mages for dealing damage in RvR, and currently mages don't do so, the one that does is getting nerfed, so it's going to make tank rvr groups much more prevalent, negating any advantage that Hib has from the utility of their mages.
It's going to fuck things up even worse imo.
Click to expand...

Amen :(
 
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iziz-minx

Guest
If anyone thinks mana line will not be nerfed is playing another game.

U cannot move in hib for chanter pl or farming spots to death its not a good thing.
I hate nerfs but this one was always on the cards a bit like left axe nerf.

Iziz out.
 
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Amadon

Guest
care to address any of my points iziz?

you've just ignored them so far

I know for a fact that I would have quit the game about 2 months ago if I hadn't been able to lvl my hero with focus pull groups. I also know there would be ALOT fewer bards, druids and wardens around were it not for focus pull groups. The support chars benefit the most from it, and those are the ones we need most in RvR.
 
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spankya

Guest
I think its a good thing, it will allow all classes to participate more in exping, and will free up camp spots for normal exp groups. Focus shield has no use in RvR so its not like the current lvl50 chanters are gonna lose out in RvR
 
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iziz-minx

Guest
Ok Amadon your right leveling is boring its the same in any game thats level based eq was no diffrent.

Skill based games are a little diffrent usally a little faster u can work up the skill trees than level based games.

Uo had a nice balance until that was killed by macroing same with swg great skill trees but very buggy atm will wait and see how swg gets on.

The point being many tank types are left out groups cos all u need is chanters bard druid u got yourself a pl/farm or exp group leaving many classes holding out for a group.

Iam meeting more and more players who have pl to 50 and are lost in rvr had a bard in group only yesterday was not sure where blog was and iam not kidding.

Mana chanter will get nerfed when mythic think and says a line is overpowered it gets the bat hib land is going to have to find other ways of leveling up.

Iziz out.
 
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Sichama

Guest
Don't get me wrong i dont really care about Focus Pull or Chanters, what i do care of is to avoid the leveling treadmill and people shouting for Nerf on their realmates.
Some people obviously have good and valid reasons for it, but instead of calling for a nerf or a change in another persons class, that will have unexpeced consequences the least, i say search for more easy and less troublesome solutions.

Lets face it why is Focus pulling a problem at this point?

Is it because Tanks are not needed in groups anymore and they lost their God given right to dictate who is included in the group? I say tough luck join all the others that have to deal with rejection too.

Is it because people dont xp the hard way and kill loads of mobs in a few seconds? I say good for them and good for Hibernia that has a definate increase of support classes.

Is it because some high level Chanters camp spots that are ment to be for mid to high level people to xp so they will pl their gray con (or as it will be from now on /level 20) alts? Yes this is the most troublesome aspect of Focus pull and the only reason imo that something needs to be changed?

So what do we do? Do we completely Nerf focus? and lose the obvious benefit of easier leveling and the appearance of an increased number of support classes? For example by having focus distribute aggro to all members of the group? And give Tanks back their God given right?

Do we change the line of focus? That will only cause an even bigger increase of Chanters because now two will be needed to do what they do today anyway? And at the same time half of the chanter population will be generaly useless in RvR and only be used for pl and farming? Not to mention that a solution like this will not fix the problem of valuable camp spots beeing taken for the benefit of pler's and their alts.

I say no and no, I say put a level restriction to enter Dungeons, stop the pler's from camping good xp spots, let chanters continue helping in the leveling treadmill which is an absolute bore, as DAoC does not have enough content to justify doing it a second time. And stop calls for a Nerf on your fellow realmates for valid but in the same time personal reasons.
 
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boni_ofdavoid

Guest
Originally posted by iziz-minx
I think the up and coming chanter focus nerf will be a good thing for the realm more tank groups.

Focus pulling was killing the fun in the realm pet pulling is so damm boring.

Iziz out.
Click to expand...

The realm needs less tanks, not more. Standing outside DL with my various misfits looking for a group, I notice that bards, druids, wardens are the most in demand and for magic users manachanters. Most days theres a collection of tanks (champs, ns, ranger, bm, vw,hero even) lfg...

Focus pulling is only boring if your doing it lazily, if your group is just pulling 3-4 at a time and healing pet is dead easy then its time to try and pull twice as many.

No one has to focus pull, most people are under the impression that pve is a grind to be done as fast as possible for these people focus is only a good thing, doubly so for those of us leveling our nth level 50.

Leave the whining about focus shield out, if you dont like it then dont join those groups, but dont ask for your own realm to be nerfed...
 
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shneddi

Guest
i think its a bad thing --- buts thats only cos i play a mana chanter :D
 
C

cercela

Guest
Originally posted by iziz-minx


Iam meeting more and more players who have pl to 50 and are lost in rvr had a bard in group only yesterday was not sure where blog was and iam not kidding.
Click to expand...

I didnt know where bolg was till i was lvl 40ish. And I got 1 lvl of PLing, lvl 24-25 with my friend in DF.

why?

sinple, I didnt xp too much in the frontiers, and I'm sure as hell not going on a pleasure run solo.

So maybe it was his frist run or something on his first lvl 50. I mean, what lvl was your char when you first learned where bolg was?

imo i think personally that they should change the amount of XP you get with a higher lvl in the group. Anyone say 10 lvls higher then you in group, and you get crap xp. Be much easier then destroing a class imo,
 
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Spamb0t

Guest
Originally posted by iziz-minx
Iam meeting more and more players who have pl to 50 and are lost in rvr had a bard in group only yesterday was not sure where blog was and iam not kidding.
Click to expand...

what on earth does being PLd to 50 and not knowing where bolg is have to do with eachother??

even if he exped the normal way he wouldnt know where bolg was....

and most ppl getting PLd (or PLing themself) is experienced players anyways...


then theres also ppl who buys their chars.. oh ye thats better then PL i guess... :uhoh:
 
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Nemlius

Guest
Is focus pulls good or bad ????


In my view it make alot of people who dont know how to play they chars...... and of course also some who do :p

I think the only bad thing about focus pulls i have seen is those chanters who camp spots to pl they alts ...... but then again its a free world and NO one have rights for any kinda spot to kill so let em pl ............


But are mana chanters really so good in RvR anyways ??? i dunno really just asking :) still dont think they should be nerfed cause we suposed to be the magic realm and casters should do most damage here.

I agree thou dont ask for our realm to be more nerfed then it is already
 
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Elric IA

Guest
Two issues with manachanters which people seem to mix up

1 Focus Shield - other realms have similar maybe not in the PBOAE line granted but I believe that matter specced cabalists have a high one in their line. Makes very little difference to RvR effectiveness of chanters (you need to be a real noob to concentrate on a pet whilst ignoring its owner). Only RvR effect I can is that it might produce more higher level characters as it is an efficient way of xping but looking at RvR active populations, both here and Prydwen, Hibernia has the lowest numbers. This is the one that will affect the PvE status of mana chanters more if it is altered.

2 Heat debuff in Mana Line - this is the one that has the RvR impact. Ice wizzies do have it as well but not to the same extent. With scing and buff resists most casters in rvr must be quite frustrated and only debuffing (either on their own by a mana chanter or good teamwork in the case of mids cold debuffing when they used to run more mage type groups) actually means they can do some damage. This is the one which if altered will alter the RvR effectiveness at range to a mana chanter.

Personally, I think focus shield should be left but the ideas such as dungeon level restriction or back to the old grouping level rules should be followed. Heat debuff should be looked at along with other debuffs and mages RvR effectiveness in general (all realms)
 
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Ravenbourne

Guest
imo if you dont exp "properly" you dont deserve another 50, you dont buy a bmw and say right i want a merc for free please you would have to earn it, far to many people who dont have a clue how to play their class running around, they are a liability not a good thing.
 
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Noche

Guest
Like rogues alwyas had grp....

Oh well.... anything which lessens the lvl treadmill is good tbh. This game really doesn´t require fps skills, it´s much easier to learn how to rvr good being lvl 50 than being a lowbie. I remember the time when rogues go rvr simple coz they can´t find xp grp...

Nerfing focus shield coz u can´t find a grp? Big deal, it´s like saying gif NSs pve only pb, so they can lvl faster ...
 
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Sichama

Guest
Those that do not know how to RvR with their chatacter will learn, Ravenbourn.
Although i do agree that until they do they are a liability but hell i dont know alot of things about RvR either, and it took me a long long time to reach 50, you say i don't deserve to have another character at 50 lvl until another year passes?
How will i learn to RvR if i start the leveling trendmill with another character? And how long do you think this game will interest me doing the same thing day in day out in RvR if i don't do something else too? I want to spend some houres RvRing and some houres leveling more characters and i want to do it as fast as possible.
Isn't it a benefit for all of us if players learn how to play multiple characters? No need to ask or wonder what another class can do in the group?

PvE content in Camelot is quite poor (which i think must not change at the moment with so many RvR issues that need to be addresed first), even with SI you only need about three weeks to explore everything.
Anyone with a lvl45+ character will eventually see the 10 most hard mobs in the game in another 3 weeks, what then?

Better to virtually pop as much 50's as possible and let them figure out how to RvR (which in most cases is vastly diferent from PvE anyway) with help from the experienced players, than to have a couple of 50's showing up each month.

Hell it isn't like you need a college degree to play DAoC anyway, in no way is it even remotely hard as a game.
Boring in some tasks and repetitive in others yes but hard no, it's strongest asset (and the only reason i played it) is its end game RvR.
Its content from start untill you reach end game, i rate below medium at best and quite poor at worst.

And this concludes my daily contribution to the subject, i really need to concentrate at work now, or i get fired and won't play at all. :)
 
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old.chipper

Guest
hang on youre sayin the realm needs this, the realm needs that how about what the player wants ??
i hate playing chars like druids etc i find them boring i like to nuke and melee ppl/mobs
the point iziz is saying people are hitting lvl 40+ and hitting a lvl block they have to beg for a pl grp because frankly thats the majority of grps these days, spend hours waiting to get on ONE fins list, or try coxing ppl to get in a regular xp grp which alot wont cause they so used to focus pull grps

unless your a chanter/eld, bard, druid, mana ment there is no place for you in these focus pull grps other than a leech spot and unless its your friends who made the grp chances are good u aint gonna get in it now im all for fast lvling etc but at what cost?

we all know hib has a very low population atm if ppl cant get grps they will think fuk this im off to midgard which holds slightly more appeal with chars like savages etc, you might say well we are better off if they cant handle it well your wrong midgard proved that other day by kickin our asses while taking a relic we need ppl on hibernia and we need lvl 50's of ALL classes we our outnumbered in every aspect when it comes to RvR and with chanter nerfs in sight id say we need more lvl 50's than ever

also when leeching ppl do not learn how to play there char to its best advantage they dont learn its strengths and weaknesses and so when it comes to rvr they fluff it up royally and get owned

BUT as i said in other posts focus pulling is a great way to xp but i really think ppl should play there chars to 40 before jumping into a focus grp to learn the char.
focus pulling has many benefits but it also has many flaws which affect the whole realm sooner or later we gonna have too many certain chars and not enough of the others every char has a role to play in rvr with the possible exception of mentalism mentalist ;)
 
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rauno

Guest
i made my enchanter only for farming to buy nice things for my champ, it takes ages to farm money whit tank(full grp) and my uber rings are so broken now:(
 
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Noche

Guest
Again ppl don´t realize that making grp is the best way to xp, a full pb grp can lvl faster than focus pull grp, if that pb grp got good setup etc.

And hell it´s not a bad thing having tons of chanters/supports to grp with rvr-wise. Lack of grp? I highly doubt in other realm as u move in u got insta grp and all ppl r like "nice" and "gentle" to ya. Afaik hib got lowest number of the so called "retard" ppl.

If ya really like a realm, slower lvling shouldn´t be something which stops ya, after all if u nerf dmg shield, u got same effect (no, if one can be arsed to make a good grp to lvl up, they won´t complain about focus full, those who can´t r the ones complaining here)
 
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Ryo

Guest
Cabalists had the focus shield in its current form since beta. In the european release version of the game chanters had a focus shield which did a LOT less damage. In fact if I recall correctly it wasnt even better than the realm castable damage shield, so it was 100% pointless. Some patches after release the focus shield was equalized for all three realms, meaning all realms got the albion version. While in Alb and Mid focus pulling is not popular, somehow it seems to have reached a ridiculous popularity in hib :) No idea why hibs do it and the other realms dont.

(I have a matter spec cabalist on prydwen and a mana chanter on exca, both levelled to 50 long before focuspulling became so popular and I am glad about that - I cant see any activity much more boring that focuspull XPing..) :p
 
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old.Nol

Guest
I agree with Amadon, and I would just like to point out that any new char is screwed in RvR for a while, PL'd or not.

There is a huge difference RvR and PVE and no amount of smacking fins with regular tanks groups changes that.

That PVE nerf to enchanters is screwing our one drawcard in RvR, I think it's stupid tbh. Our tank groups cannot compete with BOF or with mid damage output, all we have is enchanters...
 
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Solarius

Guest
The problem with Enchanter FDS is not the FDS itself, as many people seem to think, but in fact is game mechanics. In two respects, one is and unintentional mechanic (that will be fixed soon, according to Mythic) and the other is an intentional mechanic.

The first problem is the FDS is not taking mob levels into account with the feedback damage. Hence, a purple con mob will still take the full 33dps of a level 50 FDS, when melee and nuke damage is reduced by the level of the mob. The second, and sadly intentional, problem is the removal of the exp penalty in 1.54, which effectivly opened the door to PL in the first place. Personally I don't think a level 5 character should be able to join a group at the Abys in CM and still get xp for each kill. The chance of the lvl 5 having ANY impact at all in the group is none, so why should (s)he get xp?

Mythic are in the process of sorting out the first issue. But, until the second issue is dealt with, I can't see many of the complaints that are currently aimed at focus-pulling enchanters ever going away. If FDS is nerfed in the way the Hero TL wants, all that will happen is the plers will simply move to another class that will give fast, easy xp.
 
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