Can someone craft me an axe PLEASE? :/

[nalistah]

Can someone craft me a MP 16.5dps 4.0spd 1-handed cleaver?
and/or a MP 16.5dps left-hand axe 2.9spd.

Contact me here in this thread, or in game.. Im always on Nalistah (or Nli when im farming)

pleeeeeeeeeeease, ive been looking for crafters for a long time now =(

else u might be able to tell me who i can contact in-game that take orders?

 

[-RG-Jaond]

hi Nalistah

 

[Whisperess]

Tss, cleaver?

Prefer (MP) Double-bladed much more

 

[nalistah]

cleaver is of pwn

 

[nalistah]

Originally posted by Whisperess
Tss, cleaver?

Prefer (MP) Double-bladed much more

and thats only 16.2dps QQ

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Originally posted by nalistah
and thats only 16.2dps QQ

nope 16.1dps

 

[old.Emma]

Its actualy 16.199 DPS ;p

But the game rounds it down ;p

1.64 Be nice around now.

16.5 dps, 4.2 spd exceptional double bladed axe please

ohh and get rid of the 2.9 spd offhand WBA Nalistah. total borks your swing speed.

 

[Whisperess]

Originally posted by nalistah
and thats only 16.2dps QQ

You're a dual-wielder, aren't you? Style bonus is your friend. Try looking at the effective damage value instead of just the dps-value. ( multiply dps with spd )

[effective dmg]
cleaver: 16.5 * 4.0 = 66
db-axe: 16.2 * 4.2 = 68,04

But nevermind, your cash - your weapon - your choice

 

[nalistah]

explain plz :O

 

[Whisperess]

Ugh, you had to ask - didn't you?
Ok - long one coming up:



First off, we have to settle the unstyled damage for both weapons.

U = DPS * SPD * 3 * (1 + (SPD – 2) * .03)
*¹

Ucleaver = 16.5*4.0*3 + 16.5*4*3*(4.0-2)*0.03 = 198 + 11,88 = 209,88

Udbaxe = 16.2*4.2*3 + 16.2*4.2*3*(4.2-2)*0.03 = 204,12 + 13,47192 = 217,59192

That's the damage you will be hitting for with your main-hand when ooe. ( before counting absorb, resists, level difference etc )

That's counting MP weapons in both cases, however - if the user is below RR5 ( still level 50 ) Ucleaver would be:

Ucleaver = 16.2*4.0*3 + 16.2*4.0*3*(4.0-2)*0.03 = 194,4 + 11,664 = 206,064

But let's assume the player is RR5+



Now - that's just unstyled damage.
Problem is - we're using 2 axes here, thus the LA penalty applies:

LAUC = Unstyled Cap * (.625 + .0034 * Spec)
*¹

with my lousy 27 modified value LA ( 13+14 ) - the real value are:

Ucleaver' = 209,88 * ( 0,7168 ) = 150,441984
Udbaxe' = 217,59192 * ( 0,7168 ) = 155,969888256



Let's count a little on styles.

To do style multiplier calculations, we have to know the effective speed.

Effective Speed = SPD * ( 1 – ( Quickness – 60 ) / 500) ) * ( 1 – Haste%)
*²

I'm going to use a SB with 250 qui and no haste-effect for the calculations. Since styles are only affected by main-hand swing speed we don't use the mean between main-hand and off-hand swing speed in the calculations for style multiplier.

EScleaver = 4.0 * ( 1 - 190/500 ) = 2,48 spd
ESdbaxe = 4.2 * ( 1 - 190/500 ) = 2,604 spd



Now, for the style multiplier:

Style multiplier: ((Growth Rate * Weapon Spec) * Effective Speed) / Unstyled Damage Cap'
*²

For CS-styles, use CS as weaponspec. For LA-styles, use the main-hand weapon spec. ( the modified value, so for 44+14 CS in my case, I would use 58 as the weapon spec value for cs-styles )



Let's take Garrote as an example:
Growth value for Garrote is 0.75.

Style multipliers would then be:

SMcleaver(garrote) = ((0.75 * 58) * 2,48 ) / 150,441984 = 0,71708706
SMdbaxe(garrote) = ((0.75 * 58) * 2,604 ) / 155,969888256 = 0,72625557

So - hitting the same target as we used for unstyled cap ( without absorb and resists etc ) with garrote - we would get:

Cleaver:
You perform your Garrote perfectly! (+107)
You hit the test mob for 258 damage!

Double-bladed:
You perform your Garrote perfectly! (+113)
You hit the test mob for 269 damage!

Not much difference, let's try another style.



Leaper ( follow-up to Hamstring, 1,36 growth value ):

SMcleaver(leaper) = ((1,36 * 58) * 2,48 ) / 150,441984 = 1,300318
SMdbaxe(leaper) = ((1,36 * 58) * 2,604 ) / 155,969888256 = 1,316943

So - hitting the same target as we used for unstyled cap ( without absorb and resists etc ) with leaper - we would get:

Cleaver:
You perform your Leaper perfectly! (+195)
You hit the test mob for 346 damage!

Double-bladed:
You perform your Leaper perfectly! (+205)
You hit the test mob for 361 damage!



See where I'm getting with this?

It's not much, and you still have to consider your off-hand weapon to reach your desired swing speed, counting differences in off-hand damage as well ofcourse.

But, my point was to prove that you can't just look at the dps value

( head hurt yet? )

*¹ Two Handed Damage vs Left Axe Damage, An analysis of data comparing Two Handed weapon damage to Left Axe weapon damage in Dark Age of Camelot, Peter Waterman 6/3/2003
( http://pete.waterman.net/daoc/2H-vs-LA.html )

*² Wyrd’s Style Spreadsheet InfoFAQ v.1, Research and Formulae by Jay Ambrosini aka Wyrd, FAQ written by Peter Waterman and Jay Ambrosini
( http://home.nc.rr.com/obsidianguard/wyrd/Styles.htm )

edit: forgot one reference notation.

 

[nalistah]

ehh... ok

 

[Vidfamne]

blä

ehhh????

ok i count whit that stuff in school but wasnet much i got in my head.

 

[Whisperess]

Originally posted by nalistah
ehh... ok

 

[Whisperess]

Re: blä

Originally posted by Vidfamne
ehhh????

ok i count whit that stuff in school but wasnet much i got in my head.

Ok, let's summarize in daoc-terms.

Me ( if I was RR5+ ) hitting a lvl 50 naked sitting kobold ( no absorb, no resists ) would get these hits with the style Leaper:

Using a Cleaver: ( 16.5 dps, 100% qua )
You perform your Leaper perfectly! (+195)
You hit Nakedkobbie for 346 damage!

Using a Double-bladed axe: ( 16.2 dps, 100% qua )
You perform your Leaper perfectly! (+205)
You hit Nakedkobbie for 361 damage!

Thus - you can't just look at the dps-value.

 

[-RG-Jaond]

Lets say it so Nalistah understand

Double-bladed axe > Cleaver

 

[megahealer]

Hi m8

Sorry but i'm all out of MP Cleavers, but i do have 2 MP Weighted Bearded Axes in stock. It's lvl 51 1h axe 16.5 dps 2.9 spd and the price for one is 3p
If u need other stuff i also have MP:
1 Dwarven Short sword 1h (3p)
1 Dwarven Great Sword 2h (3.5p)
And
2 Spiked hammer 1h (3p) for sale.

I also have almost any type of weapon qua 99% in stock if needed.

Pm me ingame (on a charc below) or reply here.

 

[old.Emma]

Go Double Bladed Axe and Hand Axe for best possible Damage/Speed ratio pre-1.64.

in 1.64 you can replace the Double Bladed Axe with a Weighted Double Bladed which is 16.5 dps, 4.2 spd if you want.

Exactly the same speed just lvl 51 instead which means a slight increase in damage over the lvl 50 DBA.

 

[-frostor-]

or u can reroll savage and wtfpwn evrybody without having the problem about picking the right sword

 

[Gaal66]

Nice work Whisp.

You should also mention that the damage difference will increase even further with the LA actual swing speed. Since we get a haste effect all the time, the damage increase will be even higher in favor of the DB axe + HA.

DB + HA Actual Swing speed: (DB+HA)/2= (4.2spd + 2.4spd)/2= 3.3spd

Cleaver + HA Actual Swing speed: (Cleaver+HA)/2= (4.0spd + 2.4spd)/2= 3.2spd


Then you also have to take the qui and haste effect (if any) into consideration:

Actual swing speed with qui + haste modifiers (using the same QUI as Whisp did to make the comparisation easy and not to spin anyones head even more ) :


DB+HA: 3.3spd * (1-190/500)= 2.046spd

Cleaver+HA: 3.2spd * (1-190/500)= 1.984spd

As you see the actual swing speeds gets more and more even since we're working with smaller numbers here and that favouries DB+HA even more.


As a sidenote I would like to say something about LA spec as well.

The difference in total damage done increases even more the higher LA spec you have when comparing DB+HA vs Cleaver+HA.

The higher LA spec you have the less penalty you will get = you will have a higher base damage.


Base Damage done with LA: Unstyled Cap * (0.625 + 0.0034 * LA spec


Unstyled LA cap with 67 LA, DB + HA: 217.59192 * (0.625 + 0.0034 * 67)= 185.5623894

Unstyled LA cap with 67 LA, Cleaver + HA: 209.88 * (0.625 + 0.0034 * 67)= 178.985664

Difference: 185.5623894 - 178.985664 = 6.5767254


(Whisps example)
Unstyled LA cap with 27 LA, DB + HA: 217.59192 * (0.625 + 0.0034 * 27)= 155,969888256

Unstyled LA cap with 27 LA, Cleaver + HA: 209.88 * (0.625 + 0.0034 * 27)= 150,441984

Difference: 155,969888256 - 150,441984 = 5.5279042


Unstyled LA cap with 1 LA, DB + HA: 217.59192 * (0.625 + 0.0034 * 1)= 136.7347625

Unstyled LA cap with 1 LA, Cleaver + HA: 209.88 * (0.625 + 0.0034 * 1)= 131.888592

Difference: 136.7347625 - 131.888592 = 4.8461705



Now you're probably gonna ask "what LA spec is good enough?"

Answer: I can't tell you that
There are lots of things you have to consider, so there isn't an easy answer to that.
A lot of it depends on your playstyle, do you want PA + CD?, do you want Comeback + Frosty Gaze for the stun?, do you rather want the best damaging chain SBs have now, ie Hamstring + Leaper?, do you want highest possible weapon skill?, do you want a nice Front Positional chain which uses low end, ie Havoc + Tyr's Fury? etc etc

There are more than one good spec, and a lot of it boils down to your own personal playstyle.



NOTE: All the calculations are using the same model as Whisp is using so that you can easily compare the numbers without having to do any calculations.


EDIT: and yes, it will be good to get the new 16.5 dps 4.2 spd axe