Can I use a mentalist instead of a bard in a PBAE group?

[Bedroc the Hero]

Hi. I have an idea id like your comments about. We are doing a powerlvl group with 2*tanks, 2*pbae, ns, warden, bard, druid. What Im considering is replacing the bard with a mentalist. Is that crazy or brilliant??

A, PBAE group only need mana regen and I think mentalists are better at this than bards. Is that right?

B, A PBAE group dont need end song as we drop the mobs so fast.

C, Mentalists can heal almost as good ( or better ) than a bard.

D, Mentalists have a low version of the speed spell which is nice.

E, Mentalists dont have a good mezz spell so youd loose that and have to rely on the druid root.

F, Youll have one extra nuker in the group to hurt the mobs. Mentalists even have a AoE DOT spell right? Not as strong as a mana eldritchs PBAE for sure but does a LOT more damage than a bard ever will -> results in faster killing. Right+

All in all I think the mentalist sound pretty tempting. Thoughts?

 

[old.trip]

been pbaoeing from like 26-48 without bard. was sweet

 

[<Harle>]

correct in all aspects, except that mentalists dont have a speed-spell, but wardens and enchanters got that one, so you will have it, too

Only downside is that you will be short on blue buffs, as the Warden will only be able to hand out 16 ( if he uses his best ones, 20 if using lower ones i think), but that's not that big a problem.

 

[spankya]

Depends on how people are specced to be honest...

Answers to your questions...

A. Most mentalists do spec much in the line that gets mana regen whereas bards usual do(stupid if they dont). So in most cases bards are better for power regen but not always..

B. End song isnt needed so long u take brakes after each pull and the tanks taunt the mobs to keep the aggro

C. Mentalists can heal, but it uses up alot of mana. A bard will outheal a menta unless they r specced in the healing line... Ments can use HoT for after fights which is nice so long they r specced for it

D. Speed spell?? I didnt know mentalists had speed spell :/ Even if they do, it will be crap compared to a bards speed, but u dont need speed when exping

E. Bard's mezzes are far better than a mentalist's mez or a druids root.

F. Having a ment will mean more damage But nuking = power use = less healing

Bards can rez, ments can nuke, bards can buff(important) etc... both have their up and down sides


If u already have the group made, why change it now? Kinda unfair on the bard

 

[old.Tzeentch]

A: A mana specced mentalist gets mana regen before a bard, ie, at lower levels, eg, a level 44 mentalist specced mana can have mana regen 5, while a bard has to be level 50 specced in <dunno> to get mana regen 5

B: This is correct - Novamir has told me you only need to taunt approximately 3 times on each mob to hold the aggro from it <Fins> until it dies, this however, is changed if there is excessive healing or nuking. Endurance also comes back very fast, certainly a lot faster than mana.

C: Any mentalist with a decent level in mentalism... maybe 15 or so, and with bonuses, will outheal most bards. This is largely due to the larger mana pool. In fact, an extremly high specced mentalism mentalist can outheal a druid. Most mentalist who go for mana spec, usually put the rest of the points in mentalism, so heals tend to come along with the rest of the support spells, eg HoT.

D: Mentalists have no speed spell.

E: No, mentalists are classed as the secondary mez users in the realm, after a bard. Again, a mana/mentalism specced ment will have decent length of mezz, but it is single target, and currently bugged, as it will not take effect after a bard has tried a mezz and failed. The chance to be able to sucessfully mesmerise a target is based on level alone, so the only things you are looking for are: Number of targets, length of mez, and level of the person utilising mez.

F: Yes, a mana/mentalism specced mentalist has an AE DoT spell which does significant damage, and altogether is not that expensive, it works nice as additional damage to the main nukers etc.

 

[old.Tzeentch]

And before I get hate from the bards <well...they already hate me, but I don't need more >, here's what Bards can provide that Mentalists cannot.

Speed song, endurance song.

Blue buffs.

Rez.

The ability to take more hits than a cloth caster.

Tho the list looks small, these are quite large bonuses.




<phew... now don't harrass me you stinking bards

>

 

[Cloak_]

I think the bard pow song Ticks/Pulses faster than a Menties MR (not totally sure though) cept to say according to Z pow4 was MILES better than MR3 (even though only 1xtra lvl)

 

[old.Mick]

lie and erm lie

 

[CBH_Music]

if u have a bad pull, bards can mezz some of the mobs so u can take them in sections. and then switch to end for tanks to keeps aggro. this is very usefull in ez. bards can also keep some aggro with shout (if u get 4) or the odd add

els i think u will find the ment doing as good a job as the bard, and he will prolly have better mana regen.

 

[old.Derszu]

by the way... we aretalking of an pbae grp... so why are ppl talking bout mezz... ???

one goodie of the ment... 9 sec. STUN!!!

 

[Gahldir]

agree with Trip/Apan.

Some classes is overrated in some aspects and some are underrated imho

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by old.Derszu
by the way... we aretalking of an pbae grp... so why are ppl talking bout mezz... ???

well, when you are at knights in EZ it is pretty tricky for 3-4 tanks to hold aggro from 8+ mobs

 

[Bedroc the Hero]

Thank you very much for your insights. We are making a group from the start. 8ppl and are choosing now beteween doing a bard and a menta. leaning towards the menta now

 

[old.Takahome]

If u go EZ, bring a bard, if u go fins, mentalist.

A mana/ment mentalist´s V good in term of grouping, I´ve had one of those rare breed and yeah, he rulez, 400 a heal and barely use mana bar, can qc+heal, can STUN, AE DOT (to add spice and V mana efficence), and yes, mana regen 5 rulez, and they tick same if any1 doubt about it. And with no mad baf mobs, a low mez´s more than enough.

Of course, bards got their roles to add, but if u r at fins CRIM, those 2 r same, mentalist to have a higher mana regen, or bard to have end regen in case some g.pooka assault u (how sweet it is to kill 2 g.pookas in a pull hehehe, still remember it... pbaoe rulez ) Oh and don´t remember, bards r great with those inxpected adds (says... troll adds or highlander adds )

 

[old.Tzeentch]

Mana regen fro a mentalist is the same as mana regen from a bard at the same levels.

ie, regen 4 from a bard is exactly the same as regen 4 from a mentalist.

 

[old.Pempula]

Originally posted by Bedroc the Hero
Hi. I have an idea id like your comments about. We are doing a powerlvl group with 2*tanks, 2*pbae, ns, warden, bard, druid. What Im considering is replacing the bard with a mentalist. Is that crazy or brilliant??

I was just wondering... Who is the bard you are trying to get kicked from your power leveling grp ?

And would just like to add that if you are not doing those boring finns, but knights/glimmers instead, 2 bards or bard AND a ment isn't all that bad an idea. If your pbaoe is high level enough (=50), lose one of the pbaoers, it is easier to know which caster to heal then and the damage is plenty too.

Of course, you can even have a pbaoe grp without either bard or mentalist, but why would you want to...

 

[Novamir]

if it's a trade off, I'd take a regular spec bard over a mana ment ! but both are part of the 3 group <essentials> of best classes to group with imo (the other being warden).

mainly id choose bard because:

- song > timed mana buffs (whee we pulled 4 and mana reg jsut went down!)

- when you get scouted in EZ, bard can mez, and also take a few hits before going down (although ments are ok too, but cant take hits and have no aoe mez, + 1 sec slower single mez of low Duration)

- end song ! if things go tits up, and it turns into a long fight, you NEED end song for increased taunts etc.

- mentalists are elfs

however, in an ideal situation you would of course have 43+ nurt spec bard, and mana reg 5 + mana specced ment

 

[Bedroc the Hero]

Pempula, its clear that you dont know me. Im not kicking a bard from any group. We are 8 guild members that start a new group together from lvl 1. After discussing what kind of group we wanted we ended up with the above group but where not sure if we should go with the bard or the mentalist.

We did a proces of setting the stats and template for each class and selecting what kind of class we would play. It was a long process where we listed our preferences. discussing or throwing a dice where the wishes clash. I ended up a NS. Giriam of my guild got the bard. He was happy with this but was interested in the mentalist. We discussed it a lot and the replies on this forum helped us, so he is creating a mentalist now and is very happy about that.

Pempula, I hope this sets your mind at ease that I dont kick any bards from any group.

 

[Bedroc the Hero]

Yes Novamir you are right. that would be a cool group! But that would mean to kick the leaching Nightshade ( me ), and although very very tempting that will hurt us in RvR later where well need a pair of eyes that can sneak around and spot other stealthers.

 

[old.Trapp|Uberleech]

dual bubble is underrated, you don't need 2 heroes. Whether you go bard or menta is not as important as dual bubble

 

[old.Tzeentch]

only need double bubble if someone is regularly tanking 2 mobs, or the mobs hit very fast etc

 

[Feldegast]

Well If U are starting a group from scratch I would really think that U should go with the bard as there really is a bit of lack of good baffin mobs in the lower lvls, and also at lower lvls sometime good times go bad. And a speedy rezzer is much appritiated.. (god knows I've been that guy who saves the day by running away)

But Im sure both choices will work fine

 

[old.Trapp|Uberleech]

Originally posted by old.Tzeentch
only need double bubble if someone is regularly tanking 2 mobs, or the mobs hit very fast etc

well there is very much less healing needed in general in a group with dual bubble compared to single, you save boat loads of mana on healers. It's a fact m8

 

[old.Niljindil]

Originally posted by N07ABL3
I think the bard pow song Ticks/Pulses faster than a Menties MR (not totally sure though) cept to say according to Z pow4 was MILES better than MR3 (even though only 1xtra lvl)

All kinds of regeneration buffs only add to the tick size, tick speed is ALWAYS the same in the different situations(3 for sitting 6 for standing and 14 for combat, seconds).

Power regen 3 and power song 3 is EXACTLY the same.

Edit: removed harsh language, was angry at the time(on someone else, wont note name here) and didnt think.. anyway, point is, MR and power song is identical

 

[old.Mick]

with the addition of realm abilities soon, most mages will be getting at least serenity 1, which means that the old light specced MR 3 ment can also play the regen role in some pbaoe groups - as you dont notice the difference between MR4 and 5 much.

+ we get nice aoe dd wich drops mobs faster

guess what i am

 

[old.Pempula]

Originally posted by Bedroc the Hero

Pempula, I hope this sets your mind at ease that I dont kick any bards from any group.

Thank you!

 

[old.Takahome]

@ Nova: And bards rn´t elves, no group

 

[<Harle>]

Originally posted by Novamir

- mentalists are elfs

Actually Mentalists are the only magician class that can be played by Celts. Besides Luris can make Mentas, too.

 

[Novamir]

yes i know all this but its a good chance to get around some more anti-elf propaganda !

 

[Lethania.]

Forgot something

I'm a bard.. I think bard eat caster.. speacially Tzee ;P but.. you all forgot something.. LULL!! I cas save a druid ass whit lull if he/she uses both instants.. can a amenta do that? haha no way.

and I an a much better leeched then tzee can ever bee.. he need to cast his fecking power regen alla the time I dont ;D bard > tzee