Photography Camera Advice

[Killswitch]

I have a family wedding coming up and the happy couple have asked for a new camera for their honeymoon. They are both techie-types but have never used anything more complicated than a Point-and-Shoot in the past. I want to get them something decent that they can have a good play with and learn about "proper" photography, but at the same time also get some decent pictures on in the first couple of weeks.

I know nothing about cameras at all (my current weapon of choice is a Canon Powershot SX200 IS and it never comes off the AUTO setting) and I'm hoping people here might be able to help. My budget is around 600 quid and I've been looking at;

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos600d

or

http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/sony_a57_review/

The Sony seems to have some big advantages (no mechanical prism/mirror so faster sequential shots, better video, anti-shake in the body instead of the lens) but as I mentioned above I don't know enough to make a really informed judgement as to which is 'best'. I imagine that Canon will have far more lens options than Sony for example.

If anyone has some deja-vu from reading this, I posted a short question in the other camera thread but I don't think it was the right place for it. I would appreciate any advice, even if that advice is some links where I can get myself suitably educated.

I've been looking at the comments in the other thread about the NEX-7 but I'm very confused about what the differences would be between that camera and ones like the A57/A65. It's also a bit outside my budget.

 

[old.user4556]

Some big and important questions need answered before anyone can recommend anything:

- what sort of photography do they want to do? (portraiture, landscape, sports, wildlife, 'walkabout' holiday snaps). This will drive out what they need and what lenses.
- you say "proper photography" - what does that mean? (I could give milou a disposable camera and he could conjure magic with it)
- is portability / compact nature important to them? (this could mean the difference between choosing a DSLR, or a mirrorless platform)
- is video important to them?
- how important is build quality? Entry level DSLRS are moulded plastic, more advanced DSLRS have magnesium alloy build.
- will this camera be a stepping stone into photography for them, therefore are they likely to want to step up in future? (second hand may be a better and cheaper option. Also, buying into a brand means buying into a system - does that system satisfy upgrade paths?)

 

[Killswitch]

Some big and important questions need answered before anyone can recommend anything:

- what sort of photography do they want to do? (portraiture, landscape, sports, wildlife, 'walkabout' holiday snaps). This will drive out what they need and what lenses.
- you say "proper photography" - what does that mean? (I could give milou a disposable camera and he could conjure magic with it)
- is portability / compact nature important to them? (this could mean the difference between choosing a DSLR, or a mirrorless platform)
- is video important to them?
- how important is build quality? Entry level DSLRS are moulded plastic, more advanced DSLRS have magnesium alloy build.
- will this camera be a stepping stone into photography for them, therefore are they likely to want to step up in future? (second hand may be a better and cheaper option. Also, buying into a brand means buying into a system - does that system satisfy upgrade paths?)

Okay...I'm not sure even they'd know the answers to these questions, but I'll give it a shot;

1. Landscape and Holiday mainly. I can see the camera being used rarely at sporting events but I think the focus will be on pictures of places and things, usually in situations where you have at least a few minutes to setup a shot.
2. The word 'proper' is a bit of a poor choice perhaps. What I meant is the kind of photography where you might take time to setup a shot and try different settings. A step-up from the kind of photography I do which is "that's a pretty <something> let's point a camera at it and press this button!".
3. I can't see them doing much walking with the camera. It's likely they'll take it when they know they want to take "good" pictures and just use their existing point-and-shoot camera for more opportunistic snaps. Of course this may change if they get into photography more in the future.
4. I believe they would like to use the camera for video and in fact did originally ask for a video camera and then changed their minds. That said, as long as the camera in question can compete with an entry-level camcorder in terms of quality then it should be fine.
5. I'd like it to last a while, since I'm forking out the cash! In general these two are pretty careful and are experienced with handling expensive equipment like smartphones, tablets, laptops and so on. Given the limited budget I'd rather spend money on the internals than on a more rugged housing.
6. It seems likely to me that they'll want to invest more in the future, which is something that draws me towards the Canon as they seem to have a far larger range of aftermarket accessories and compatibility with third-party lenses and suchlike. I think it's more likely they'd invest in things like external flashes, different lenses and so on as opposed to moving to a higher-spec camera, at least in the first few years.

Hopefully that'll help a bit. The main thing here is that these guys have never had a proper camera and I don't think they'd know in advance what they'd want to do or what is even possible. It's the same thing that has stopped me getting a DSLR or similar despite my constant frustration at the quality of my opportunistic snaps using my portable Canon snapper.

 

[old.user4556]

Okay.

From reading the above is sounds like video is almost on par with still photography considering they asked for a video camera right out the blocks?

One of the biggest turd factors with DSLR video is that the majority of them (the EOS 600D included) need to be manually focussed during video. This is easier with the 600D because it has an articulating screen so you can tilt / swivel to see what you're doing. That said, accurate focussing can be tricky particularly in bright light. I've done some videos on my EOS 7D and it takes a lot of concentration to nail focus, particularly with shallow depths of field and moving subjects. I'm not sure your budget allows it, but the EOS 650D has phase detect autofocus points built onto the actual sensor, so along with their new STM lenses the camera will autofocus in movie mode which makes it an absolute breeze compared to DSLRs of old.

Sony approach video differently with their use of SLT that splits the incoming light so that the phase detection autofocus system can be used to autofocus in video modes. This works pretty well indeed and will give them a great package for video and stills:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvP8JYvV_Zk


You'll notice the camera picks up the drive motor of the lens - a necessary evil that only Canon's STM lenses address (comparison of STM versus non-STM). This is the EOS 650D:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVMQNYm6vk4



View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNeVxt1jHuM&feature=related


In-body image stabilisation is a huge plus and I do miss it from my Pentax days. There are arguments for and against IS in-body and in-lens, but I do not prefer one of the other in terms of results; I just miss putting legacy lenses on my camera body and having full IS.

Canon do indeed have the lenses. Lots of lenses. Lots of excellent desirable lenses. How many lenses are they realistically going to need? Canon and Nikon have an excellent rental market here in the UK, Sony and Pentax do not, therefore give consideration to exactly what lenses they're likely to be using. There are a few very sexy Sony branded Zeiss lenses in Sony A mount not to mention the standard lenses if they've got deep pockets:

http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-...carl-zeiss-vario-sonnar-t-zoom-lens-/p1025375
http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-sony-24mm-f2-distagon-t-za-ssm-lens/p1521898
http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-sony-135mm-f1-8-za-sonnar-t-lens/p1017253

DxO Mark have tested the sensor of both cameras, and as expected the Sony has significantly better low ISO dynamic range than the EOS 600D (cleaner images, less noise and better shadow details) due to Exmor technology (something I'm a huge fan of).

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Ca...(brand)/Sony/(appareil2)/692|0/(brand2)/Canon

If you had deep enough pockets, I'd say the Canon 650D would be an excellent purchase as it's the first of it's kind to seriously take on Sony's SLT cameras to provide proper phase detection autofocus with quiet lenses designed for video. As I say though, it's a good £400 over budget. The EOS 600D is also an excellent camera, but the lack of video autofocus will make it a dick-around (I know this first hand, trust me it's not user friendly). Given the Sony a57 gives you autofocus in video, 16 megapixels, 13 stops of DR at base ISO and a good enough lens choice, then I don't see how you could go wrong with it.

My only problem with the Sony is that it has no HDMI out from what I can see (typical Sony ball-drop) - this may be a dealbreaker, it may not be. I've only plugged my camera in a few times in the two years I've had it as almost all my video required some sort of editing on the PC first, then uploading onto Vimeo so my friends and family could watch them. You may want to ask them about that?

I hope this opens the thread up for comments and questions, maybe we can bounce some other ideas around?

 

[old.user4556]

Actually impressed by the video on the a57 and the seemless ease of use.


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YLe_vDuciY&feature=watch_response



View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ3X6UGxjYc


Tom would be a good person to get some advice on video related gubbins, I'd like his input here.

 

[Killswitch]

Thanks Big G. Lots of good information there. I'll find out about the HDMI thing. I've seen a couple of people who use the HDMI output from their camera while shooting for framing shots and suchlike. I don't think it would be a dealbreaker for *showing* videos or images, especially if there are other output options which could be used for previews.

Definitely some pluses for the Sony and the price is pretty much right as I reckon I can get the A57 with a lens, tripod, memory card and bag and just about stay in my budget. As you say let's hope some other camera types have some thoughts.

 

[Tom]

Television cameramen using proper television cameras don't use autofocus, in fact it's only recently that autofocus became an option on some of the larger box lenses, like this:

http://www.canon.com/bctv/products/digi100af.html

When you're watching televised sport, like football for instance, all the camera operators are focussing manually - despite often having a depth of field measured in inches. It's just a skill one acquires. But television kit is designed to be operated this way. When I'm shooting something from my shoulder I'm looking into a monochrome viewfinder with edge sharpening (or peaking, as its known). Turning the focus ring is easy and doesn't unbalance the camera. Also, television camera lenses are designed to be touched all the time, so are fairly sensitive. DSLR lenses are designed to be set and left alone, so their rings are pretty hard to turn.

DSLRs are stills cameras with extra features. Sure, the pictures look nice, but they're not designed for what people are buying them for.

If you want to focus on a DSLR then you should buy a shoulder mount with matte box bars and a follow focus rig. Then you'll be able to focus without upsetting the camera's balance.

As for the Sony footage, it looks ok but the auto exposure is annoying.

 

[milou]

GX1 is nice >> http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-...-camera-with-14-42mm-power-zoom-lens/p1528074 Good range of lenses (both Panasonic and third party) for expansion. Looks classy and produces the goods, as does the G3 >> http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-panasonic-g3-black-with-14-42-45-200/p1526767

Or V1 > http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-...era-with-10-30mm-and-30-110mm-lenses/p1527520.

Comparison >> http://www.dpreview.com/products/co...cts=panasonic_dmcgx1&products=panasonic_dmcg3