Buffing in RvR

[elder_theurgist]

When ppl are buffing in RvR, they mostly always give casters dex and int, and then buff the tanks with str, dex, con, spec con, AF, and meaby if there is more buffs left (Enough BB's), the casters get both con buffs too, and if you ask for it 5-6 times casters meaby get spec AF too.

I belive this is wery wrong !
It is fine to buff tanks whit: str,dex,spec dex, spec con, as those buffs make the tanks hit harder, and kill fasters, and tanks are the ones that does most óf the killing (Caster groups are not relevant for this tread).

However NO tanks sould EVER have base con and spec AF before all casters, clerics and mincers have both buffs.

Reason for this is that tanks dont get hit untill AFTER the support classes are death anyway, and then the fight is lost.

(Sidenote on sorcerer: mind sorcerer dont really need int, as we are not there for the damage anyway. We need the following 5 buffs BEFORE int:
con, dex, spec con, spec dex, spec AF.
(Body sorcerer might prefer int before some of them) )

Quib the revived Sorcerer

 

[Belomar]

Most important buffs for a mind sorcerer: dex and spec dex. For a nuker, add int to that, and then start worrying about con, str/con, and spec AF (in that order). Let's face it, a caster relies mostly on not getting a tank on them, and casting speed is what is going to help them to prevent this from happening (especially for a mind sorcerer where getting off the AoE mezz is the most important task).

 

[-Wedge-]

I dont agree on not giving a mind-sorc an int buff... Mythic has said in a grab-of-the-bag that resists (flat-out resists) are determined by int too... Not as much as spell level, but it does contribute...

Anyways, Clerics, imho, should buff themselves with con + dex and spec con + dex... And then casters with con + dex and spec con + dex...

After that, give all tanks strength and str/con... And if there's more, I'd give casters int-buffs...

The output of casters goes up way more with dex + int then a tanks output will with his buffs... And con buffs shouldnt even be a question for casters, they are already hard to keep alive with buffs (e.g. with 1300-1500hp), let alone without (e.g. with 900-1000hp)...

Spec-AF is luxery, although its nice its not 'that' important (I wouldnt give a caster spec-af instead of a tank str/con)... With 2 clerics and no other buffers, I wouldnt even give spec-af...

Btw, why on earth would you give a minstrel those buffs? A minstrel would (imho) just fall into the tank categorie...

Ohwell, just get 2 clerics in the group and a buff-bot or 2... And you'll never have buff problems

 

[elder_theurgist]

Originally posted by Belomar
Most important buffs for a mind sorcerer: dex and spec dex. For a nuker, add int to that, and then start worrying about con, str/con, and spec AF (in that order). Let's face it, a caster relies mostly on not getting a tank on them, and casting speed is what is going to help them to prevent this from happening (especially for a mind sorcerer where getting off the AoE mezz is the most important task).

I agree on what you said, and that is generally not a problem, whit 2 clerics in each group, and mostly some buffs from BB's.

Where I do have a problem is when tanks get buffed whit base con, and spec AF, before casters and other support classes.

All the buffs in the game wont make casters survive the assist train for 1 sec more, but in all those situations where only 1 tank, or even bard/skald goes for you, those buffs will make a caster live a lot longer, and then a bette change to CC or kill them before the caster is death.

Not sure about the int aspect, as Wenge mentioned, didn't know that int affects resist rate. Dont think it can be much whit 44+ spec tho - would like to see more details if any have them.

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

I agree, with the con buff thingy casters should have con, dex, spec con, spec dex before tanks tbh !

how offen do a tank get taget first ? and if he does then the enemys are n00b and u will win anyways

but that base con have much much more to do on a caster then a tank, and spec AF does make a diff aswell.

I my self have a buffbot so I´m always spec buffed from the buffbot along with the clerics and casters.
I _always_ give cleric´s spec dex first, then casters spec dex & spec con, then clerics spec con, then AF on casters then I start to give spec buffs to tanks !


but hey that´s just me ^^

 

[quinthar]

My cleric goes for pretty much the same buffs accross the board, I only play her in casual groups.

Basically you have the determine buffs based on what you have, saying give this and give that means nothing unless you have the perfect group.

If I have 4-5 in a group, I'll chuck them all spec str/con, all dex, casters if they use it get Int, Tanks then get base dex, if I have an infl in the grp they get both dexs as a matter of course.

You dont have much left after that.

On the other hand I ask people what they want, if yer 50 and you have looked at emain you have a rough idea what you really need, if you dont yer in trouble.

What does annoy me is people whining about have a xxxx trimmed buff instead of a red trimmed buff...<sigh>

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

well normaly I´m grped with 2 clerics and 2 Bots buffing aswell

it helps a bit aswell

 

[hrodelbert]

Just make sure your group had 3 buffbots, problem sorted.

 

[alithiel50]

Originally posted by elder_theurgist
However NO tanks sould EVER have base con and spec AF before all casters, clerics and mincers have both buffs.

I agree on the point of spec AF, but as far as base con goes this a pretty much redundant statement since, as fas as I'm concerned, no group should EVER leave the portal keep without everyone in the group having a base con buff. You're just asking for a beating if you've not got as many hp's as possible for your enemy to have to take from you. Every last hp counts!

Originally posted by elder_theurgist
Reason for this is that tanks dont get hit untill AFTER the support classes are death anyway, and then the fight is lost.

This is not always the case:

When fighting PBAE groups, it is usually the tanks that are the first to fall as the support is being mezzed/interrupted to prevent them healing.

And I've noticed recently that an increasing number of FotM BM/Savage groups are experimenting with going for the tanks first (BaF have admitted to trying to take me out first when I've been MA, to interfere with our /assist)... particularly the overpowered Savage /assist train that can pretty much F8 and insta-kill any class regardless of how many hp's they have!

 

[Moody]

Just gifv me a bigger concentration pool ffs.

 

[Jiggs]

i'm an RvR cleric i dont buff!!

PM the owner of the buffbot

 

[Eof]

Let the clerics buff the casters, use buffbots for us tanks cos we dont die while they will need to be rebuffed most fights anyway

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Eof
Let the clerics buff the casters, use buffbots for us tanks cos we dont die while they will need to be rebuffed most fights anyway

Sure. Go ahead and do that, I'll continue giving me and my fellow casters the best bot buffs while I let the in-group clerics handle the tanks (this is for dedicated caster groups, tho).

 

[gunner440]

buffbots..... dont leave atk til ur all glowing red

 

[bracken_woodman]

Re: Re: Buffing in RvR

Originally posted by alithiel50
particularly the overpowered Savage /assist train that can pretty much F8 and insta-kill any class regardless of how many hp's they have!

Frustrating, sad and very very true

 

[Ialkarn]

You need 2 buffbots to do the buffage properly.
But you can still sort buff very well whit 1 buffbot only.

Often the way ppl sort buffs is wrong and waste loads of resources.

some examples:

1)the owner of the buffbot give bases to himself(moa dosen't affect base buffs) and/or red af and healt regen cause it's his buffbot and he want to be fully buffed :that's wrong cause you are not playing alone and it's in your own interested the buffs are used to give the max possible advantage to the group.

2)the mincer get red buffs when those only partially affect his performances (a mincer is not a tank!)

3)clerics get red str/con more than spec dex.

4)red dex buff abuses :the one wasting more point concetration when really only the sorc and pali should use it, if you lack of conc.
You can do yellow dex on thrust tanks,it's not a big loss in terms of weapon skill cause str affect their ws too.

 

[bracken_woodman]

Nerf buffbots

 

[Giga]

Originally posted by -Wedge-
I dont agree on not giving a mind-sorc an int buff... Mythic has said in a grab-of-the-bag that resists (flat-out resists) are determined by int too... Not as much as spell level, but it does contribute...

why you think i always asked for a int belo?

 

[Flimgoblin]

pretty sure resists are entirely down to spell level and caster level versus enemy level.

(and in RvR the caster level versus enemy level bit doesn't factor in)

Apparently the formula is 15% base chance of resist +0.5% per level of the spell below your enemies (makes it easier to land spells on lowbies incidentally)

i.e. level 44 spell has 18% resist rate.

Sounds a bit high to me to be honest - the base chance might be lower

Something to test though - spam your level 44 mezz on someone in a duel (or better yet, use amnesia then you won't have immunity timers messing with your logs)

Get a necromancer or two to keep the power up, hit it about 1000 times (preferably 10k but that'd be silly)

do the same again with an int buff.

 

[-Wedge-]

Spells have a factor of (spell level / 2) added to their chance to hit. (Spell level defined as the level the spell is awarded, chance to hit defined as the chance of avoiding the "Your target resists the spell!" message.) Subtracted from the modified to-hit chance is the target's (level / 2). So a L50 caster casting a L30 spell at a L50 monster or player, they have a base chance of 85% to hit, plus 15%, minus 25% for a net chance to hit of 75%. If the chance to hit goes over 100% damage or duration is increased, and if it goes below 55%, you still have a 55% chance to hit but your damage or duration is penalized. If the chance to hit goes below 0, you cannot hit at all. Once the spell hits, damage and duration are further modified by resistances.

In general, RvR is between opponents within 1 quanta of each other (in the frontiers for example, L45-50), and the spells cast are L40+. This results in a 2.5-5% modifier, which is somewhat lost in the noise of the bonuses from Int/Acuity, realm abilities, and modifiers from resistances. For characters using spells around L30, they will see a more significant reduction however, and this factor is part of it.

From some grab of the bag (dated around 18-01-03, seeing thats the post from WF about it )

Anyways, it doesnt say how much int affects your resists, but it does note that it does have effect on it...

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by -Wedge-

In general, RvR is between opponents within 1 quanta of each other (in the frontiers for example, L45-50), and the spells cast are L40+. This results in a 2.5-5% modifier, which is somewhat lost in the noise of the bonuses from Int/Acuity, realm abilities, and modifiers from resistances.

From some grab of the bag (dated around 18-01-03, seeing thats the post from WF about it )

Anyways, it doesnt say how much int affects your resists, but it does note that it does have effect on it...

And you'll also read in that quote that Sanya mentions 'modifiers from resistances'. And we all know how much that effects whether a spell is resisted or not, right?


Don't believe everything you read in grab bags

 

[Pin]

Anyway. On the whole buff thing... Most people you meet in pick-up groups are still in the PvE mindset and just buff exactly the same way. Tanks take the beating, so tanks get the buffs, etc....

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by quinthar
What does annoy me is people whining about have a xxxx trimmed buff instead of a red trimmed buff...<sigh>

The difference between my Sorcerer having dex from a 35e cleric or a buffbot is a 1.8s instead of 1.5s mezz. The difference that makes is HUGE.

 

[quinthar]

Originally posted by Pin
The difference between my Sorcerer having dex from a 35e cleric or a buffbot is a 1.8s instead of 1.5s mezz. The difference that makes is HUGE.

Of that there is no doubt.

But sometimes you dont have the perfect group makup or buffs to go around, I would prefer to have the lesser trimmed buff rather than no buff at all specially when its a str buff that my infil or base con that my cabi wouldnt normally get.

Damn, half the time my cabi would be greatfull for green trimmed boofs.

 

[-Wedge-]

Originally posted by Pin
And you'll also read in that quote that Sanya mentions 'modifiers from resistances'. And we all know how much that effects whether a spell is resisted or not, right?


Don't believe everything you read in grab bags

I dont, but unless someone proves the statement wrong, then I will give it the benefit of the doubt...