Bits'n'bobs!

[Cap'n Sissyfoo]

Hi

Need some good ideas aboot motherboards and CPUs.

I am looking for something pretty cheap but powerful.

Ideally it shouldn't use a VIA chipset because I have had nothing but problems with them. I was thinking about a card with a nforce chipset on it but I am not sure how stable they are.

Onto CPUs, Athlon is what I want...no quibbling over that. What is this Barton CPU though? Is it similar to the Duron chips that were doing the rounds a few years ago?

Cheers for any help

Sissyfoo

 

[Deadmanwalking]

CPUS:

The bartons are NOT the same as Durons. They come under the Athlon XP group of chips. While bartons are a differant chip completely and designed for cheapy word processing computers. (Like Intel celerons).

Its the extra 256KB of cache that really makes the bartons better then older models of the Athlon XP. Saying that Once again clock speed of the processor can not be taken as read. IE The Barton Athlon XP 3000+ is 2.17 Ghz, while the Athlon XP 2800+ is 2.25 Ghz. Go for the fastest "XP" you can afford in most cases. There are 2500+xp which are barton yet the 2600, 2700 and 2800 are still Thoroughbred and a 2700 will at stock speeds outperform a 2500.

The high end amd cpus 3000+ and 3200+ are both barton so for them it is pure clock speed of the 3200+ over the 3000+.

Motherboards:

At the moment for AMD cpus Nforce 2 is the daddy. A variety of "versions" are available with differing North and south bridges, offering differant "inbuilt" features. The top two are the nforce 2 offerings by asus and the deluxe version has features that the non deluxe version lacks. Mainly more ports and connections as well as the improved audio.

What is your budget and intended use for the comp? Then we can have some more idea of what would be best.

Phew... essay over

EDIT: Correct me if im wrong

 

[Brunore]

Originally posted by Deadmanwalking.
CPUS:

The bartons are NOT the same as bartons.

Well that bit looks a bit suspect imo tbh

 

[Cap'n Sissyfoo]

Basically, my budget is hella small.

I am looking at spending no more than £250 on the motherboard, CPU and RAM. I need a minimum of 512mb RAM.

My current system is very shaky and so I am looking to replace the main components really. I have a nice GFX card but my current mobo is too unstable with it (VIA chipset) so I have had to put it on the shelf until I can get a new mobo.

I will have a look at some prices tonight and decide what is best to buy when I get paid.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Deadmanwalking]

Hehe that was me thinking to far ahead

What do you have in terms of HDD, Sound, LAN atm?

 

[heilel]

If you're on a budget, as I was when I upgraded recently.
I'd suggest the following.


Mobo, Epox 8rda, you can get one for about £60 and it's and Nforce2 Chipset, which rocks.
If you can afford it, get the Epox 8rda+ or the EP-8RDA3+ but the last mobo is probably out of you price range, but it's the best one for your purposes.
Whatever one of these you choose, they'll all do fine for your needs.
The reason why I suggest the EPox mobos, is becasue they have lots of tools in the bios for overclocking, Epox mobos are kinda famous for that.

RAM, 512 mb PC3200 Corsair value RAM, you can get that for about another £60.

Processor, Well, you should have enough money to buy an AMD Barton XP2800, that'll cost about £100 for you.

But personally I bought a Barton XP2500, that's about £50 and then you should get a Cooler Master Aero 7+ ASB-V73-U2.
And then overclock that baby from the Barton 2500s 1833mhz processor to about 2200mhz, which whack up you performance no end and the cooler will keep the temperature down.
Note that if you do this, you'll definitely need the faster RAM, to match the speed of the overclocked processor, as the best way to overclock is to up the FSB from 333 upwards.

If you're definitely not interested in overclocking, then just buy the AMD Barton 2800, that'll be more than enough for your needs.
But if you DO wanna overclock, then I'll give you some guides on how to do it and/or post some great links of overclocking how to's..

 

[Deadmanwalking]

Where are you getting these prices from becuase they are quite incredible. £60 for 512 of 3200 corsair mem? Hmm
And the EP-8RDA3+ is the same as the Epox 8rda+ just has sata raid.

 

[heilel]

Originally posted by Deadmanwalking.
Where are you getting these prices from becuase they are quite incredible. £60 for 512 of 3200 corsair mem? Hmm
And the EP-8RDA3+ is the same as the Epox 8rda+ just has sata raid.

First of all, the EP8rda3+ officially supports the Barton 3200 , the 8rda+ (and 8rda) doesn't.
Also the EP8rda3+ has a better sound card and the bios is better. and the chipset version is better.
The EP8rda3+ is vastly superior to the other two cards, however, as I said quite clearly, for Sissyfoo's purposes, either of the other two cards would do fine.
I mentioned the EP8rda3+ because if he could afford it, it's worth it, but actually, the 8rda and 8rda+ DO support the faster Barton chips, just not officially.
Goto the Epox site and look at the technical specifications and you'll see what I mean, of course the EP8rda3+ is more expensive, but that's why I suggested getting a 8rda would be sufficient.

The ram has gone up recently, and no I don't check EVERY week, but when I bought it ( a few weeks ago) it was 669dkr (around £55) now it's up to 949 kr (around £80).
Yeah, RAM prices go up and down all the time, if you check next week or the week after it might be cheap again.
I would certainly recommend to Sissfoo to wait a couple of weeks before buying RAM, as the prices will probalby go down at some stage soon.
But either way Sissyfoo, if you're not going to overclock, this RAM
Samsung 512MB 184pins / 64bit(72bit) / 6ns / 1. Parts 695 kr.
Is pretty good (IT's PC2700, not as good as PC3200, but good enough) and you can overclock somewhat with it and Sumsung RAM is pretty good and as you can see the current price is around £60,
I have quoted the 1 unit 512mb RAM stick , as even though you could pair 2X256 ram blocks to get better efficiency, I bought 1 512 mb ram stick and I'm gonna buy another one later and pair it with my current stick.



BTW, I got my prices from here http://www.edbpriser.dk/
Which is a Danish site that references all the various online Danish Computer component stores and gives the cheapest prices.
I can only assume the UK (or whever Sissyfoo or your self come from) has similar sites.
Actually, the UK tends to be cheaper than Denmark as well, you you may even get better prices if you look around (asuming you live in the UK).
If you don't know where to look, I know some people in the UK that can link me up with some UK shops sites which have good prices and I can pass them onto you.

 

[heilel]

To make things a little clearer, I built my system on a budget, but I also wanted the possibility to overclock later for not much money.
First of all, I already had a Geoforce ti4200 128mb ram (overclocked to the same speed as a ti4400), I'll be keeping this until the end of the year.

So I did this.

Bought the Epox 8rda mobo for 779 kr (about £60)
I got this, coz it will unofficially handle up to an AMD Barton 3200.
But I mostly got it as I knew I'd be overclocking my Barton 2500 (1833mhz) to around 2200mhz, you can go higher, but I wanna play it safe.


Processor.
I got an AMD Barton 2500XP processor (1833mhz)
This particular processor is particularly good for overclocking, which is what I intend to do.
The Barton 2500 overclocks even better than some of the more powerful AMD processors.
If I wasn't gonna overclock, I'd PROBABLY get the Barton 2800
I got the Barton 2500 very cheap, about the equivalent of £50. it's about ½ the price of the Barton 2800.


RAM.
I bought 1 stick of Corsair PC3200 Value RAM for 669 kr.
It's very fast and good quality, yet cheap and is great for overclocking and as I said, I'll be buying another stick of this ram and pair it.
(you could just get the Samsung RAM I suggested instead above)

Heatsink/fan.
I currently use the stock Heatsink and fan, which is fine if you're not overclocking.
This week I'm gonna buy a decent Fan and heatsink (Cooler Master Aero 7+, it is a heatsink/fan combo for 289 kr, about £22 )and I'm gonna overclock.


So I spent a total of the equivalent of £178.
Base on you £250 budget, you have about £71 left, which you could either invest in a better processor if you don't want to play around with overclocking, say a Barton 2800.
Or if you DO want to overclock, get a good cooler/fan instead and it'll then be safe to overclock.

[edit]
I just spoke toa friend in the UK,, you can get a Cooler Master Aero 7+ for £22, including delivery.

 

[Cap'n Sissyfoo]

Thanks for the info guys.

At present I am swinging more towards the Asus board because of the price (£3 cheaper than the Epox ) and the RAM doesn't seem to be too expensive at the moment. £60 for 512mb PC3200 RAM seems okay with me.

As for CPUs...I still don't understand fully the difference between Barton and XP. The Barton 2500+ has a clock speed of 1.83Ghz whilst the XP 2400+ has a clock speed of 2.0Ghz. I am not a big fan of over clocking so it is unlikely that I will do it with my CPU so what advantages would I get if I were to choose the Barton over the XP chip?

So far this bundle will come to £203 which isn't too bad I guess.

 

[Deadmanwalking]

All the wannabe overclockers and new name loving fanboys will shout get the barton. Which over a 2400+ yes. As you still have a few quid spare go for the 2700+ which does outperform a BArton 2500+. Even thouhg i expect someone to post saying no way etc etc.

In short: Go for the highest "xp" number 2500+, 2700+ etc etc

 

[Cap'n Sissyfoo]

~light bulb clicks on~

Got it! Thanks guys!

Now I just need to order.

 

[heilel]

I won't bother getting into a debate, but the faster clock speed of the old XP prcessors does not make them better.
But whatever you say man.

I have checked in detail comparisons of the XPs vs the Bartons and the bartons came out on top.
I'll keep my Barton 2500 which is better than the old XP processors and enjoy it's superiority.

Wow, almost achieved a civil thread...but not quite...
*enter Deadmanwalking*

 

[Cap'n Sissyfoo]

Just did some checking up on the Barton 2500+ vs. the TB 2400+ and it seems that the extra 256k cache gives it a better performance in stock mode (i.e. with no over clocking) than the 2400+.

Apparently the testers were unable to get good results with the over clocking and the 2400+ is apparently more stable.

Doesn't make much difference to me though because I don't over clock.

Damn...things used to be simple; higher the clock speed the better the CPU. Now clock speed isn't the main factor and its all very confusing to someone who hasn't looked at CPUs for the last 3 years. :/

 

[heilel]

Regarding XP vs Barton.
I haven't overclocked it yet, but stability wise, I've had absolutely no problems with my Barton 2500 and I play lots of games etc quite frequently.

If you read the forums at www.anandtech.com www.arstechnica.com or even at www.overclockers.com , you'll see most people who use AMD processors use the Barton by preference because it's just better.