Balance issues in DAoC (Long)

[Gizor]

1 full group of hibernians leave DT and sets the course towards Emain.
One of the members in the group does /who Emain, the result is below 10.
In the two other realms one person does this, both in Albion and Midgard, both of them gets a result of more then 35 persons.

Lets just say, when Hibs arrives in Emain (Odin's and Hadrian's for that matter as well) they ALWAYS got something to kill, it is not like Albs and Mids that often meets other RvR-groups from their realm and yells at each other..
<lalala yells>: STOP ADDING FFS OMG ELITISZ!!!! (Because they got to fight for the all the possible realm points that they are able to get, and doesnt want to share them, because there is so few to get)
While the RvR-teams from Hibernia slays down the 'random-groups' from Midgard and Albion. And since they're RvR-focused people, got skills for all I know, they also manage to take down the few RvR-teams from Mid and Alb.

And on Prydwen we all know Hibernia had (still has now as well, I'm not sure, not been online much) which did that Hibernia on Prydwen got many (more)dedicated RvR-teams to start up there. This I think resulted in not only one, but several RvR-teams(~guilds) which means they got more RvR-team(guilds) then in Midgard and Albion, as far as I can see it.


So what I am trying to say is that the level 30 command, did not only get 'casual-players' to come play Hib/Pryd but also 'Hardcore-gamers'(or what you want to call them) which probably did manage to get to level 50 in a short while, and then headed out for RvR. And the RvR-guilds easy takes down the none, what can I say, (none-)RvR-dedicated/focused groups/guild.
This leaves Hibernia population to almost only beeing dedicated teams, that often got more 'skills' / 'routine' on stuff and therefore gets it easy to farm som realm points of all the Mid and Albs out.

Well..got a bit messy, with all I've written, had to add alot while I wrote, and its late, but I hope you get my point...
Do not trust statistics, in my opinion. It is like, the world nr. 1 Healer (f.eks) with most realm points ain't neccesarily the most skilled Healer in the whole game. (Bad example, but well...

 

[Ilum]

Not reading the entire thread, but...this I wanna comment on...

Solution IMO:


* Give Midgard two more classes to spread the characters out from only playing Savages and healers.

Wont do any good unless those classes will perform _better_ in RvR than Savages. If they do, they'll simply take the place Savages have today - the class that pushes other out of the picture.

* Give Nightshades the ability to be Celts and/or Shars.

Sure, why not.

* FIX the Berserker class, it needs a boost.

Does it? I don't think it does really...they hit about same damage as Mercenarys, rat mode is very nice. So is access to avoid pain and prevent flight.

* Remove Determination from Savages.

That change would be too drastic for Savages. They would honestly be crap. Atleast a Reaver have tons of utility. This will get addressed in RA review anyway (determination issue).

* Remove stealth from Minstrels and give them some heals and ability to rezz.

ROCK ON! If you want to improve Albion, what a great idea! But really, I think it would be overpowered.

* Make the Dragonfang style a 6-sec stun or make it a part of a Evade-Comeback-Dragonfang combo.

Sure, nerf infiltrators. Would be glad to see less of them in RvR.

* Give Nightshades 2.5*lvl in speccpoints.

Can only compare Nightshades to my experiences playing Paladin and Scout, and they do good in melee. Don't see the need to boost them. We already nerfed dragonfang, remember?

* Give Infiltrators "Vanish" as a level 50 ability but make sure Vanish-PA won't work.

Whatever.

* Give Shadowblades better RAs

mkay..

* Give Infiltrator a "ok" RA

ok....

* Remove AP from Nightshades (If they get 2.5*lvl speccpoints and ability to be celts/shars).

Avoid Pain gets adressed in RA review. Will either be accessible to Inf+Sb+Ns or none.

* Make AF-charges avalible in bottles :worthy:

Ok...not a huge change from using charge on an item, but ok.

And finally,
Kick Savages out of the game.

Midgard is the only realm with 2 light tanks with determination. Don't know what warrants that, but they got it, and it works ok atm imo.

Long and stlong whine but anyways.. Good night

Mostly whining about stealthers which is only a minor fraction of the game...or atleast its suppose to be. The fact that people play infiltrators, shadowblades and nightshades to such a big extent and manages to care so much for the balance of these classes show that the REAL change that's needed is to push people into playing LESS stealthers and MORE group players.

Without a doubt, that change would make much more significant push in the right direction than all your changes added together.

 

[Leleith]

Lving a zerk AGAIN at the moment xE

He hits damn nice damage, also all three realms are so close to each other's balance overall from what i have seen of them in rvr and actually playing them for a while each in rvr at 50.I think hib has the best selection of classes just that ra's fuck everything up though mid and alb classes, some are good but rest are mediocre and need to be looked at.

Yeah, like SoS, BoF, FH, Vanish- meidocre crap imo. But yeah, class balance COULD be worse.

Theurg pets HAVE to live like they do due to them being a caster and dying fast(pets can be killed anyway in 2 styled hits i think?), they are normally first target, also albion has bad amount of interupts compared to hib/mid.

Which theurgist pets gets killed in 2 hits? (dunno if u posted this in game beta, maybe theurg pets had that little hp then?) I can tell you for sure that u dont have time to bash on pets when thers a bunch of ppl on your healers ass. Not even if the pets dies in 1 hit. Funny as well, when im in rvr, i use to swear alot at the fact that albs seem to be experts when it comes to interrupting. Debuffs, mezzes, roots, nearsights, dots, gtaes, pets to the left and right... You had a rr 4+ theurg, right? you for one should know how well a few pets can interrupt

 

[Derric]

I bet you wish hibs also had lotsa pets,debuffs,mezzes and stuff?

Oh...










Hmmmm

 

[Sycho]

Yeah, like SoS, BoF, FH, Vanish- meidocre crap imo. But yeah, class balance COULD be worse.



Which theurgist pets gets killed in 2 hits? (dunno if u posted this in game beta, maybe theurg pets had that little hp then?) I can tell you for sure that u dont have time to bash on pets when thers a bunch of ppl on your healers ass. Not even if the pets dies in 1 hit. Funny as well, when im in rvr, i use to swear alot at the fact that albs seem to be experts when it comes to interrupting. Debuffs, mezzes, roots, nearsights, dots, gtaes, pets to the left and right... You had a rr 4+ theurg, right? you for one should know how well a few pets can interrupt

I know they do because i have dueled them(this is earth pets).

Alb has a theurg due to the realm suffering lack of interupts from elsewhere...oh sorc amnesia(also aoe root) but there's not much else.Yes i do know how well they interupt and yes i do know how fast a theurg can die too...

That class balance issue i mean hib uses most of it's classes whereas mid mainly just uses four classes these days, that's all.

 

[Balbor]

"* Remove Determination from Savages." - Savage isn't a hybrid, which has been stated by Mythic over and over again. It does walk the line between pure tank and hybrid however, I'll give you that. The recent changes to savages are good and solid fixes. More of that kind of tweaks would be best for the game over all. - Savages are still too overpowered, but since Midgard is the melee realm I could agree with you here.

You have probably forgot that Mythic say a lot of things they don't mean, or change later on (ie Thurygs are siege experts). Mythic have included Savages as 'spell caster' for targets or Artifacts that require emeny casters to level it up. If Savages where not over powered then people wouldn't be able to put out groups with 3 of them in and still walk over 2-3 fgs easy. They have no weakness as they are almost CC immune and can increase there melee absorb higher than any other class. Something i;d like to see is The amount of HP a savage loses when they have 3 healers and a shamen healing them is nothing. While there buffs are up they so also suffer from the effects of disease for healing purposes.

Please spot moaning about Mincer, Yes they can get Red con mobs and stealth, but not if they are in a group. While in a group they are on the same level as Skald (who in the world of MA trains do have trolls with 2handed weapons and perry) and behind Bards with there 2300 instent interupt, rezzing and main CC. Seeing as all classes with speed are good at soloing in RvR the Mincer does have the slight advantage. The bard and Skald are a little better for double teaming with better instent CC. What you really should be worrying about is when Albion realise there stealther groups can reach full potental when they start running with a mincer.

 

[Fafnir]

Bards and skalds don't get stealth becouse they aren't rogues, bard is a healing & cc-class and skald is a viking in base..

Well then Minstrels should not have chain. And thane should not be on rouge hp, since we are vikings.

But hey its mythic we are talking about. They only do what makes most players happy.

 

[Dook]

What you really should be worrying about is when Albion realise there stealther groups can reach full potental when they start running with a mincer.

That's where most of the Mincer whines ARE coming from...

 

[Funkdocta]

Heres my 2 cents....

Mincers are over powered fullstop.

They have a couple of viable specs, AE mezz, stealth, climb walls, chain, pets, SoS, insta stun... the list goes on. This makes them the most well rounded class in the game.

There abilities meen they can solo in rvr, get a normal group in rvr and join the stealth groups in rvr.

They are supposed to be the equivalent to Bards & Skalds. Lets see what they can do...

Skalds can use a 2h weapon, insta single mezz, snare and run fast.
Bards can Insta AE mezz, heal, rez, gp, power regen, end regen. (infact Skalds really do suck lol even Bards are alot better)

Balanced? I think not!

As for the other classes theres a lot of unbalance there also.

I personally dont think Savages are over powered, a Merc assist train is just as deadly tbh. Plus its there only defence against the alb zerg.

The 3 assassin classes need sorting out (Infs>NS>SB).

Other balance issues I feel are minor but still exist the same (cant be arsed typing anymore )

This will be argued about for ever there will never be true balance because you have to keep things different enough to make each realm unique. Im looking forward the the next expansion that will introduce yet more classes i reckon) Maybe it'll me called ToS Trials of Space lol.

Anyway theres my 2 cents.

 

[Shike]

What you really should be worrying about is when Albion realise there stealther groups can reach full potental when they start running with a mincer.

uuhh.. hehe you arent serious are u? :wub:

 

[Shike]

I know they do because i have dueled them(this is earth pets).

Alb has a theurg due to the realm suffering lack of interupts from elsewhere...oh sorc amnesia(also aoe root) but there's not much else.Yes i do know how well they interupt and yes i do know how fast a theurg can die too...

That class balance issue i mean hib uses most of it's classes whereas mid mainly just uses four classes these days, that's all.

u kinda leave out one of the best classes that if well played can cause a hell regarding interrupts tho mate..

minstrels. 2instaDDs, instastun (yes it interrupts too), aoemez spammable aswell and a weapon to poke with. A well played minstrel can lock down 2 supports pretty good on his own if he is assigned to do just that in a grp.

 

[Balbor]

Eventhough many of you people say that Merc. & Zerkers are pretty equal damage wise, you got to consider the fact that Merc. got Dirty Tricks and Zerkers got "Bear-mode"/Berserk, <- which suck compared to DT, imo.

Dirty Tricks: This ability is Native to the Mercenary. These hired hands will do anything to win a fight - including this dirty trick of throwing dirt into the enemy's eyes. For 30 seconds, the Mercenary has a chance of throwing dirt into the enemy's eyes whenever he swings. If hit, the enemy will miss 25% more often, and fumble 50% more often for 10 seconds. This ability can be used once per 7 minues.

Savage that has been DT'd = level 4 Viking
Berserker that has been DT'd = level 2 Seer ;o

Berserk: This ability is native to the Berserker, and allows him to do more damage than would normally be possible by throwing himself into a berserker rage, transforming into a Vendo (BearPerson) during combat. Berserk makes every hit for a certain time a critical hit, but can only be used once every 7 minutes.

^^and the Berserker gets some sort of "defence penalty" or something, while he goes into this "RAGE". (SO HIT THE BEAR!!!!)

I think they changed DT some time ago so that its is a self shout buff that causes people attacking you to miss more fotten and when they miss they fumble more. There was a time when DT ws a L20 spell that was more often than not reistsed, time and time again. Light tanks don't often go Head to Head in RvR as there main targets are the casters and healers. Having DT up when attacking a caster isn't worth it, having rage up while attacking a caster/healer = dead alb/hib.

 

[wittor]

But my point is, why have a class that compete 1 minute every 15 minutes?

zzz , if a NS put up AP he kills 1 or 2 enemy's then he prolly dies cus of the infil / sb zerg so he has to port back and run to emain by that time is his AP back up.
So its most of the times up and a high rr NS is hard ( those on Exc. are hard anyway ) so he don't need AP alway's to win. I don't know if u play a NS and if he is high rr.
Try to play a rr7 NS or fight against him i'm sure u would agree with me xD

And infils need a nerf we all know that already

 

[Funkdocta]

zzz , if a NS put up AP he kills 1 or 2 enemy's then he prolly dies cus of the infil / sb zerg so he has to port back and run to emain by that time is his AP back up.
So its most of the times up and a high rr NS is hard ( those on Exc. are hard anyway ) so he don't need AP alway's to win. I don't know if u play a NS and if he is high rr.
Try to play a rr7 NS or fight against him i'm sure u would agree with me xD

And infils need a nerf we all know that already

Yeah NS are tough I always forget to pop AP coz its on another quickbar to my PA and anytime/evade styles and fights are usually over in seconds. I still win most of my 1v1's and a few 1v2's and Im only RR3 (2 infs & Wiz is my record so far with help of an end pot and some serious kiting ). I neeeeed a bigger quickbar!!

Anyone notice lately how u fight an inf (or 2) theres always a mincer about? There like Infiltrators personal assistants

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

Well alot of good ideas but...
IMO, you should focus on the infils, they get 2.5 spec thats a reason enough to nerf df from 9 s to 6 s, they "loose" their ubah buttom but all the other classes with "only" 2.2 spec p's they will have less WS since they cant spec as high in pierce/blades/sword as an infil can WITHOUT loosing something in their other lines. - A fair balance imo.
Then Savages sure they make alot of dmg fast etc, but they should not have det or cheap ip / purge !... This "tweak" will make berzerkers more attractive since they ( imo make less dmg then savages ) should be able to get det 5 and cheap ip / purge - This will make them attractive to have in grps ! ( if they atm isnt )

Also healers have some "overpowered" abilites imo all the instant thingies etc. Maybe re-model the whole mezz system and make single messes last alot longer so when u do get a mess on some1 it matters... atm healers instant mess etc det tanks get out of mess in 10 s top and then the mess was kinda "useless" - on the other hand how fun is it to be messed one and a half minute ( maybe not smart to do this re-model thing but maybe a good idea to stand on ? )


Ah well thats it hope its not to vauge, fussy and easy to missunderstand etc