bad to worse

[Ezteq]

I have to talk to someone and you guys are it I'm afraid.

As you may know me and B2 have been together for 8.5 years and stupidly happy for pretty much the whole time; now we are facing councelling and it's no ones fault but we are both hideously upset and it is a really really horrible situation.

The Situation:

Since about our first week together I told B2 I do not want children and had no intention of ever having them, he said fine he wasn't that bothered and that was that.

On monday he cracked and finally confessed that he actually does want children and it is destroying him because he loves me so much but he wants to have a family which he doesn't think he can ever have with me.

I have plenty of good reasons why I do not want children, the fact that I don't want them will be enough for this post though. I have tried to convince myself (this is not a completely new thing, I knew he liked the idea...just did not realise to what extent) that I could do it, I could fall on the grenade and pop one out for him but it almost drove me nuts and we both decided it wasn't going to happen.

This is the really really sick, unjust thing; we both love eachother, we are both eachothers best friends and niether of us want to be with anyone else but if this doesn't get resolved it will drive us apart and that is the most horrible thing I have ever had to face. It's no ones fault, B2 can't help his feelings anymore than I can, he honestly didn't think he was bothered about having children then as he got older it's just eaten him up.

The last week has been hell, sheer hell and we have both cried enough to fill a bathtub, I'm not angry I am just confused because I simply cannot understand how he can want a potential something enough to jepardise the real something we have (but that is just me I really do not get it) I can't figure out how to help or make it better or how either of us are ever going to be happy again.

Anyway I have an appointment for a councilling session booked for Monday, I am buggered if I am going to let such a fucking lovely relationship get hurt over something like this I am sure there is a way to work it out, there has to be.

So, I just wanted to get this off my chest, and explain why I might not be about much until this is resolved...though I think I will need you guys for comic relief because I sure as shit could do with a laugh.

As ever, yours
Ez
xxx

 

[Calo]

Hm that sucks. Know the feeling.

But if you are that long together i'm sure you both will find something for it. Eventually your friendship&relationship will overcome whatever the problem is.

 

[Sparx]

Sorry to hear Ez

Ive had friends who never ever ever wanted kids and as soon as they fell pregnant their attitude completely changed. Not saying thats going to happen to you of course as you have your reasons, but things can change either way

 

[Ezteq]

cheers kids,
I keep saying to B2 that it's not worth destryoying anything over because atm it is completely impractical/impossible to do anything about it even if I did want them and (because I never know what will happen) I may feel totally different in 5 years time.

But then theres this petulant little bastard inside me crying out why should I have to change!!! I love my life the way it is, I am so happy pretty much all the time I worked bloody hard to get my life the way I wanted it... I might be happy with a child but if I'm not then I am totally buggered.

One thing that really got to me was I told him to go speak to his priest and get help there and the priest told him we wouldn't be allowed to get married because it's catholic law that you have to agree to have children if you get married. That is the one element in all this that makes me angry, I mean jesus it's not like catholics don't have enough children, most of em have ten a time so me not having any would hardly bring the whole flaming religion a tumbling would it.

Anyway I told him it's his religion not mine and if anything was going to make me really fucking furious about this situation it is that so he can stick his religion up his bottom for the time being, I'm not agreeing to have children just to get married...don't actually want a church wedding anyway and he has to be more flexible about that tbh.

One thing I am thinking of that would be the only acceptable way for me to do this is surrogacy (not that dodgy bruce willis movie either) because I cannot get me head round and will not be doing is having a baby as in carrying and birthing but I can understand the concept of raising one...not happy about it at this time, but I can get that.

It's all so flipping hard, I just hate this whoe situation. You know when you really wish you had a time machine gun and you could just go back to a certain point and tell someone to stfu because if they open their gob it'll ruin everything? Though if he hadn't spoken up he'd have probably ended up having an aneurysm...I just wish he'd never changed his mind.

 

[Ch3tan]

Hmmm adoption?

What you really need to know is whether b2 will be happy raising someone else's child as his own, or if he really wants to have his own.

you could both agree to have or not have kids now, for each others sake, and end up regretting the choice further down the line. Without wanting to sound harsh, I really think that this is a relationship breaker, because it seems as if there is no solution that does not involve a huge sacrifice in what you want from life from one of you.

 

[Ezteq]

Yeah I spoke to him about adoption and he can't do that he wants his own. I agree this is one thing that could do extreme damage, he's afraid if he supresses his feelings we'd be fine for maybe ten years or so but he is scared he may grow to resent me because he never got to have them. I did ask what he'd do if I was infertile and we couldn;'t have any but he seems to think that's different (again I cannot understand that but it's how he feels and I have my own feelings that he can't understand so...)

I just don't ever agree with or could ever bring a child in to the world just to serve another purpose, shuld only ever be done from love...or too many bacardi breezers, you know what I mean though, they're people not tools.

 

[Sparx]

I understand how thats different, theres a difference between not being able to and not wanting to

 

[Ch3tan]

Yes, he can probably forgive you wanting to have children but not being able to, it is very different to you saying you do not want to have any.

 

[Jiggs]

Ahh so it's actually having the baby you're not happy about? My wife is similar, she often jokes that if I was the woman she'd have knocked me up several times by now...

Actually I don't think it sounds like you both need counselling, just you need to find someone who has been through pregnancy etc to talk your feelings over with because you sound more confused than anything else. It's important to remember that not wanting kids is a perfectly normal and acceptable thing. It's also important to remember that women change their mind about things a lot.

 

[Calaen]

I can only echo Ch3ts sentiments Ez

This really could be a relationship breaker.


If you are up for adoption, maybe the counsellor can discover what it is that you are afraid of with regards to carrying the child yourself. I can tell you that everyone I have spoken to about being pregnant with their own child has said it's an experience they will never forget.

 

[Thorwyn]

Although I can see the probelm, I can´t help but think that there´s no reason for *you* to change your mind. It´s your life, you designed it that way and you set up the principles for yourself. Having a baby requires two people to agree, not one and one "oh well, ok for peace sake". That won´t work... neither for you, nor him, nor the child.
The fact that he´s a religious guy doesn´t exactly help.

The pocket psychologist in me has a very own interpretation of the situation, but I´ll refrain from writing it down, because I don´t know you or the exact circumstances good enough.

Anyways, good luck for you two! Hope you´ll be able to sort it out in a way that makes both of you happy.

 

[Marc]

Catholic law that you have to agree to have children? What catholic law is that? Ive been a practiscing catholic all my life and have been best man at 4 catholic weddings, all to couples with no children who didnt have to make that agreement at all. Even if the priest did say that, you can lie anyway.

It certainly should have no bearing on getting married at all, so scratch that off your list of worries.

 

[ST^]

Don't even consider having/bring up a child if it's not what you want.

 

[Ezteq]

well, having a mother who used to show her cesarean (gah can't spell it at all) scars to me and say 'look what you did to me!!' didn't help, not did it help when she told me how I'd ruined her body and that because of it when she had her next child her stomach split open because the skin didn't re-heal while she was in the bath and' there was so much blood everywhere' and then explain how painful it is and how she almost died to have me.

Basically that put the ever living shit up me about having/giving birth to children lol. Then (my parents were horrible) being told how it was my fault she had to marry my father and how children ruin your life blah blah and she could have done this and that if it wasn't for having to have me.

wow this is becoming a real Ez-pitty fest here lol but I don't want you to think I'm just being selfish...I am selfish and thats another reason I don't think I should have them (I had selfish parents and know that that doesn't make a good combination) and as a result of my shitty childhood I am kind of reliving it now so I really don't want to have to grow up which I assume you have to do when you become a parent...I'm having too much fun!

Marc cheers for that matey, always helps to get additional information on this kind of thing because I know nothing about church workings. And thanks guys for your observations they are all welcome believe me I have to look at/think about this from every possible angle so need help because I can only see it from limited ways.

Has anyone here actually had kids after not really wanting them and regretted it afterwards? I mean does it happen all the time or was it just my mother that happened with?

 

[Calaen]

Don't even consider having/bring up a child if it's not what you want.

She does not have a problem with bringing one up by the sounds of it, it's the having one inside her that appears to be her concern.

Jiggs has given some sound advice, speak to people who you consider nice people and ask them of their own experiences with having a child, find out how they were before, during and after.

And as Thorwyn has covered, there is no inbetween with this decision at all, you can tell B2 that you might change your mind, but can he take a risk on that not happening?

I would also like to add in defence of B2, it's very easy to say I don't want to have kids (or anything for that matter), without actually thinking about it at the start of a relationship. However, if you spend years with someone you love and enjoy sharing everything with, I personally believe that you would develop feelings about sharing/bringing a child into this world.

 

[Calaen]

well, having a mother who used to show her cesarean (gah can't spell it at all) scars to me and say 'look what you did to me!!' didn't help, not did it help when she told me how I'd ruined her body and that because of it when she had her next child her stomach split open because the skin didn't re-heal while she was in the bath and' there was so much blood everywhere' and then explain how painful it is and how she almost died to have me.

Basically that put the ever living shit up me about having/giving birth to children lol. Then (my parents were horrible) being told how it was my fault she had to marry my father and how children ruin your life blah blah and she could have done this and that if it wasn't for having to have me.

wow this is becoming a real Ez-pitty fest here lol but I don't want you to think I'm just being selfish...I am selfish and thats another reason I don't think I should have them (I had selfish parents and know that that doesn't make a good combination) and as a result of my shitty childhood I am kind of reliving it now so I really don't want to have to grow up which I assume you have to do when you become a parent...I'm having too much fun!

Marc cheers for that matey, always helps to get additional information on this kind of thing because I know nothing about church workings. And thanks guys for your observations they are all welcome believe me I have to look at/think about this from every possible angle so need help because I can only see it from limited ways.

Has anyone here actually had kids after not really wanting them and regretted it afterwards? I mean does it happen all the time or was it just my mother that happened with?

I was going to mention this but I thought you should say something first

Fuck your parents or anyone else in your family that has walked all over you, you are not them EZ.

Yes this is the internet and I don't know you from adam, but you come across as someone who has good moral fibre, you are caring, considerate and funny* and more importantly you are you not your mother or any of those other tools.

You have all the tools to be a fantastic parent, don't let your own upbringing effect your decision!!!

If you need to have a chat with someone who has been through it all (along with a shitty upbringing) just get in touch and we can swap msn or whatever it is you kids do and talk

*She might be pretending and actually be a witch in disguise!!!

 

[Sparx]

Sounds to me its not the child your worried about its your past and the scares youve lived

dont let something like that stop you from having a future! <- look exclamation mark i must be serious

You are happy now yes? you could easily have spent the rest of your life living in pity going woe why always me, but you didnt. You shouldnt be defeated here

My mum almost died when she had my little brother, didnt stop her going on to have my little sister. My mum wasnt the best parent in the world to my or my big sister, she was young and made many mistakes i wont get into here.
That wont stop me having kids cause i know i can do better, you should always aim to do better than your parents thats how we as a species have evolved

 

[Calaen]

omg I have proof of evolution sec!!!

 

[Calaen]

Me during the C-2-C (possibly NSFW) Although it is only a butt!!!

Stephen Weddle's Photos | Facebook

and my daughter

Eden!!!!

Stephen Weddle's Photos | Facebook

My sperm was clearly blessed that one night of my marriage where I was able to get in and get out without her noticing

 

[russell]

I didn't want kids really. Number 1 was an accident and total shock. Then I had 2 more.

PM me/ phone me if you wanna -hate to think of you being this unhappy.

My best friend was adamant that she would NEVER have children and asked to be sterilised at 19 (her parents were hideous) she now has 2.

You need to sort it out, its not going to go away x

 

[Ezteq]

thx ofr all the PM and support guys; am so screwed up right now it's horrible, we had a talk this afternoon and it really looked like the final curtain. I hate this it's so frigging horrible I just don't know what to do...or (even worse) how to do it even, it just feels like every way I look at it I lose something I love.

really don't know how I shall cope at work tomorrow i hope noone is mean to me because i'll probably just run away and lock myself ina broom cupboard for the duration. evrything hurts so much and i just dont feel like ill ever be happy again, i keep seeing all the stuff we have collected over the last 8 and a half years tofether like wine bottle corks from anniversaries or a shell or a cheap orniment from a day trip somewhere and its all just so frigging painful.

i hope no one ever has to go through anything as bad here i really do, b2 looks like he's gone numb now and seems as if he's doomed us to the worst,pain, i has it .

 

[Thorwyn]

Gawd.. that sucks
Sorry to hear that.

I I know that whatever people may say, it won´t help you to ease your pain... at least not at the moment, so I won´t give you any advice at the moment except for: Call in sick tomorrow, go to a doctor if you need (or explain the situation and ask for a spontaneous day off vaccation). No point going to work in such a condition.

If you want to talk, dorp me a line on msn or icq. Good luck and don´t give up!

 

[fettoken]

I think, that if he so desperately want a kid it's his problem, esp if its due to religious beliefs. If you two are happy as it is and he just wants this for no apparent reason dont go with it. You two should wait until (if) you get bored and can't think of anything else. I really hope it works out for you Ez!

 

[Ch3tan]

I think, that if he so desperately want a kid it's his problem, esp if its due to religious beliefs. If you two are happy as it is and he just wants this for no apparent reason dont go with it. You two should wait until (if) you get bored and can't think of anything else. I really hope it works out for you Ez!

I don't think that is the situation here, an important part of a lasting relationship is having similar goals in life. Given the limited info we have, it just seems as if b2 has put aside his need to have kids for ez's sake in the past, but cannot live with his decision. Waiting to see if one of them changes their minds will not help anyone, it will just mean that one of them will build bitterness towards the other.

 

[Cerb]

Jesus that's awful Ez I'm really sorry to hear that

Any advice I give isnt going to help because I cant really relate to this at my age and sentiments like "everything will work out im sure" are empty and unhelpful. I guess all I can say is that I truly hope things turn out alright and you will be in my thoughts. *hug*

 

[soze]

If you are sure you do not want a child you should not entertain the idea at all. You seem the type of person who would be a great Mum but if its not what you want it's not fair on the child.

Unfortunately i think this will come down to B2 he has changed his mind and changed the dynamic of your relationship so its down to him to decide if love is enough with out a kid.

 

[Lamp]

sux, Ez

The bottom line is this: If you want to stay together one of you has to give in or it aint gonna work. If it was anything other than a decision whether or not to have kids I'd say it can be worked around, but the whole kids thing is a relationship maker or breaker.

I really hope you guys can work things out

GL with the counselling

all the best
Lampypoo

 

[- English -]

sorry to read about everything ez.. wish i could help

maybe take your piggies upto bed and hide under the covers with them its what i used to do when i was younger and sad ... they always made me smile

 

[noblok]

(Slightly off-topic)

Catholic law that you have to agree to have children? What catholic law is that? Ive been a practiscing catholic all my life and have been best man at 4 catholic weddings, all to couples with no children who didnt have to make that agreement at all. Even if the priest did say that, you can lie anyway.

It certainly should have no bearing on getting married at all, so scratch that off your list of worries.

You didn't know? I can't cite the exact law, but a catholic marriage is void if there is no 'openness for children'. If you get married and discover your partner doesn't want children, you can get a divorce and remarry for the church, because in the eyes of the church the first marriage never existed.

(I won't go into this further, but I firmly believe that if you don't want children, you shouldn't get a catholic marriage. Procreation is an important aspect of what 'marriage' is in the catholic tradition.)

 

[kiliarien]

Holy crap Ez, 'tis shitty news!

The problem with this topic is it's such a subjective one that nobody can ever say where anybody else is coming from. I always 'kind of' wanted children, secretly hoping to do so if I could avoid all the shitty getting up in the middle of the night, ideas of crap birthday parties etc etc that went with it, which makes me a selfish shite but it's the truth. Having a child now, all that stuff I feared does indeed suck, but being a parent is special and drastically life changing at the same time - and maybe some fear of that holds you back, who knows, there's no judgement attached to it. Most, if not all on here, know you as a funny, caring and downright decent person who is very self aware and so you have to go with your gut. There is a good chance that if you and B2 can continue on with your happiness, the fetid stench of resentment at the idea of not having a child could bubble up in B2 in many years to come. It's such a shame things have come to this.

To aid you in your thoughts - my wife's birth was like a Quentin Tarantino movie stand off. Except with more blood at the end.

Catholicism eh? I know you must be feeling shitty, but I hope as always us twats at FH (eh? Ok, maybe I'm the only twat here...) For light relief, seeming as you need it, eher goes:

YouTube - Every Sperm is Sacred {Monty Python's Meaning of Life}