Armsmen need something to survive

[Qaewin]

im sorry but I have little trouble killing enemy shielders and have won as many duels against paladins as I have lost even.

This isn't my experience, myabee we had a chance pre style change but I found I couldn't touch a paladin with 50 shield and mob 3/4. I might get one style off but thats about it. Although I was thrust and hybred so had lower ws and thrust has a pen v plate.
I would be very interested in the results if you could find a pally in the top 20 to duel say 10 times. I doubt you would win 5.

 

[Qaewin]

The problem is most armsman are to quick to admit defeat and start whining, yes we have serious issues but we can still hold our own and win despite our disadvantages, which in my opinion is more reason to be proud then winning when you have all the advantages.

I'm not whining and am hardly quick to admit defeat. I persisted with my arms until the end, then thought about coming back and tried to undelete but couldn't coz of patch, if i could i would still be persisting. We can solo fairly well and with ra's up I would expect to take down any enemy stealther if they were solo and to kill both or one if they were duoing pre toa (now its grapple grapple kill) We can duo effectively with a caster and also can perform the role of offensive or defensive tank in a group ,howeve, if we are doing either the group is likely to be slightly unbalanced and the only decent groups I got in were gg's or ones edelia sorted and both were prepared to 'carry' me slightly.

 

[Kagato]

This isn't my experience, myabee we had a chance pre style change but I found I couldn't touch a paladin with 50 shield and mob 3/4. I might get one style off but thats about it. Although I was thrust and hybred so had lower ws and thrust has a pen v plate.
I would be very interested in the results if you could find a pally in the top 20 to duel say 10 times. I doubt you would win 5.

I am thrust and still manage to win as many fights as I lose, yes we have a disadvantage but we are far from helpless. And if being at a disadvantage when dueling members of our own realm means we can have a great advantage when fighting members of an enemy realm by being thrust with 100% strength weaponskill then i'll gladly take it.

And trust me I have dueled plenty of paladins, i've been around a very long time and alot of those were significantly higher RR then me, theres always an element of luck involved in dueling, you can own someone one minute and get your ass handed to you on a plate the next, but with max weaponskill and sensible end/style use you can kill paladins even with thrust. However paladins are not the issue, we are not here to compete with paladins, what matter is Armsman performance compared to mercs and enemy heavy tanks.

 

[Frostor]

give armsman new spec line
Dual polearm
would rock

 

[Bracken]

can perform the role of offensive or defensive tank in a group ,howeve, if we are doing either the group is likely to be slightly unbalanced and the only decent groups I got in were gg's or ones edelia sorted and both were prepared to 'carry' me slightly.

In caster group bg armsman > paladin...atleast until they get det in NF

 

[Qaewin]

In caster groups I believe the arms has a strong case and I would argue for there inclusion, but many ppl disagree with me

I agree with u brack

 

[Kagato]

give armsman new spec line
Dual polearm
would rock

We don't have enough spec points for all our lines we need to spec as it is.

 

[Drav]

Think the problem is simply this, we are just average when it comes to everything...... Ok we can hit for 500+, but so what, throw a shield into the works and that 500+ might be the only hit you get in all battle before you lose all your end and get owned by a warrior who can switch between 1h and 2h naturally and has higher ws to top it off.

All advanced weapons should have a bonus vs shields, or whats the point, there is enough room for this in terms of balance in the game, lets face it theres enough room in alb fgs to include armsmen and mercenarys.

We should bring more to the group tho, anything, if were not gonna be giving out pure dmg then give us something that can help in other ways, maybe something in the way of a group buff..... just an extra bit of fluff that would get us some groups.

I mean thats what Soldiers Barricade was at one point, I have it atm just to simply help out my group mates, but with frontiers the way it is what do we have now???Dashing defence? Altho defensively its supposed to be quite good on an offensive armsman like myself its gonna be completely worthless.

If mythic are gonna give us offensive specs, as well as defensive specs this should be reflected in the RA's we can purchase, so that there are benefits on both sides, current NF plans just have pretty much defensive RA's for arms.......so why not make it for it by giving the class something lvl wise thats naturally offensive?

Plus sort out the pole styles, I cant crip blow/mangle forever its getting a tad boring, give us an easier way into the target styles that do the real dmg in the pole line.

Rear snare is ok, still prefer disabler off crip blow tho.

 

[Firebirth]

===================================

Dark Age of Camelot

Version 1.99999999999

When Catacombs Freezes over


===================================

New Things and Bug Fixes

-We fixed the issue with armsmen having too much variance with damage on double specialisation. Armsmen should now have a much reduced damage variance when double specializing.

-We fixed the issue where chances to hit Dual wield classes with sheild styles was drastically too small. We have no increased the chance to hit bonus against dual wielders in accordance with other classes.

-We have fixed the issue where some armsmen styles used too much endurance. The endurance usage of some styles has been reduced.

-We have given Armsmen a set of new shouts that enable them to steal endurance from enemies and add it to their own. This should with reduction of endurance usage of some styles allow armsmen to whether the battle more easily.

-Armsmen can now specialise in, Staves, Flexible weapons, Kung Fu and Drunken Boxing.

Realm Abilities

-Armsmen's Free Realm Rank 5 ability, Snapshot has now been replaced with a more useful ability. Tactical Nuclear Weapon Ability (TNW) allows armsmen to plant a thermonuclear bomb at a specific location every 30 minutes causing Area of effects damage on any enemies within a 3Km range

-Soliders Barricade has been made Armsmen only again.

-Tireless Realm ability has been significantly improved. Armsmen endurance levels will now regenerate faster than a paladin using endurance chant.

TRADESKILL CHANGES:

-Armsmen can now make hinges.

 

[Lejemorder]

===================================

Dark Age of Camelot

Version 1.99999999999

When Catacombs Freezes over


===================================

New Things and Bug Fixes

-We fixed the issue with armsmen having too much variance with damage on double specialisation. Armsmen should now have a much reduced damage variance when double specializing.

-We fixed the issue where chances to hit Dual wield classes with sheild styles was drastically too small. We have no increased the chance to hit bonus against dual wielders in accordance with other classes.

-We have fixed the issue where some armsmen styles used too much endurance. The endurance usage of some styles has been reduced.

-We have given Armsmen a set of new shouts that enable them to steal endurance from enemies and add it to their own. This should with reduction of endurance usage of some styles allow armsmen to whether the battle more easily.

-Armsmen can now specialise in, Staves, Flexible weapons, Kung Fu and Drunken Boxing.

Realm Abilities

-Armsmen's Free Realm Rank 5 ability, Snapshot has now been replaced with a more useful ability. Tactical Nuclear Weapon Ability (TNW) allows armsmen to plant a thermonuclear bomb at a specific location every 30 minutes causing Area of effects damage on any enemies within a 3Km range

-Soliders Barricade has been made Armsmen only again.

-Tireless Realm ability has been significantly improved. Armsmen endurance levels will now regenerate faster than a paladin using endurance chant.

TRADESKILL CHANGES:

-Armsmen can now make hinges.

and then u mother came in and told u to wake up

 

[Vindicator]

Pity Whine here or Vn boards or Arms boards doesnt do any good.

its a sad fact, we all know Arms are an inferior Choice to a Merc For Offense and a Paladin for Defense, Generally speaking. While many ppl here have whined about double speccing, it is here that the salvation to the Class of Armsmen is. Rewards for double speccing given and then Arms are Viable again, solving all problems along the way.

If Certain bonus's were given for every point spent in a base damage type Slash/Thrust/Crush with a % increase in different aspects of Offense then being a pure 2h/pole or even a 3x something base damage hybrid arms would be viable and capable of doing damage. The List I include below I would not expect to get them all but some of such bonus's should be given.

Every Time you spec 1 Base point into a Damage type you get:
.5% Chance to Penetrate Block/Guard
.25% Chance to Crit < ya a free mop>
.5% Chance to Penetrate Blade Turn
.25% Boost to Style Damage and combat speed on each consecutive hit
.25% Less Chance to Flat out miss
.25% increase to parry passively < to offset being forced into 2h/pole while sacrificing defense>

*As I said, not all of these abilities at once but a combination of them would be fine .

Also some Style changes would be needed.

They need to take Defenders Revenge off Phalanx and put it on Defenders Cross, so we have a good Side Chain with 9s stun and Defenders Revenge shud have its damage values restored. This would give the Class 2 Decent Chains. Just Delete Poleaxe uke:

As for the RA change, well there are 2 very nice 1's I have thought of my self which would fit well and wouldnt be overpowered, while still being decent compared to our old RA.

20% boost to All Resist's including Melee for 30/60 secs. <like sb and baod except a mini version ^^>

Or

When Activated Every member in the group of the Armsman have a mirror image placed over them to look exactly as the Armsman that activated it, This mirror image cannot be broken by combat and will only drop when it has expired. Say 30/60secs again etc.

<yes im aware the Bard 1 is similar but this is quite useful while not being overpowered and still being group friendly>

 

[Kagato]

Pity Whine here or Vn boards or Arms boards doesnt do any good.

its a sad fact, we all know Arms are an inferior Choice to a Merc For Offense and a Paladin for Defense, Generally speaking. While many ppl here have whined about double speccing, it is here that the salvation to the Class of Armsmen is. Rewards for double speccing given and then Arms are Viable again, solving all problems along the way.

If Certain bonus's were given for every point spent in a base damage type Slash/Thrust/Crush with a % increase in different aspects of Offense then being a pure 2h/pole or even a 3x something base damage hybrid arms would be viable and capable of doing damage. The List I include below I would not expect to get them all but some of such bonus's should be given.

Every Time you spec 1 Base point into a Damage type you get:
.5% Chance to Penetrate Block/Guard
.25% Chance to Crit < ya a free mop>
.5% Chance to Penetrate Blade Turn
.25% Boost to Style Damage and combat speed on each consecutive hit
.25% Less Chance to Flat out miss
.25% increase to parry passively < to offset being forced into 2h/pole while sacrificing defense>

*As I said, not all of these abilities at once but a combination of them would be fine .

Also some Style changes would be needed.

They need to take Defenders Revenge off Phalanx and put it on Defenders Cross, so we have a good Side Chain with 9s stun and Defenders Revenge shud have its damage values restored. This would give the Class 2 Decent Chains. Just Delete Poleaxe uke:

As for the RA change, well there are 2 very nice 1's I have thought of my self which would fit well and wouldnt be overpowered, while still being decent compared to our old RA.

20% boost to All Resist's including Melee for 30/60 secs. <like sb and baod except a mini version ^^>

Or

When Activated Every member in the group of the Armsman have a mirror image placed over them to look exactly as the Armsman that activated it, This mirror image cannot be broken by combat and will only drop when it has expired. Say 30/60secs again etc.

<yes im aware the Bard 1 is similar but this is quite useful while not being overpowered and still being group friendly>

I'd rather go with the resist boost, the 2nd suggestion is to 'magical' for a decidedly anti magic class, we're meant to shun all magic training to enhance our melee ability (hah)

I'd rather they put Aegis of Cross rather then remove Revenge from Phalanx, its easier to land the stun on enemies trying to escape then.

Prefering passives I have always personally thought double speccing and the Armsmans nature should give a bonus to critical hit if nothing else. Sadly though any such love is unlikely. I think mythic are hoping if they ignore us long enough we'll go away.

 

[Vindicator]

I'd rather go with the resist boost, the 2nd suggestion is to 'magical' for a decidedly anti magic class, we're meant to shun all magic training to enhance our melee ability (hah)

I'd rather they put Aegis of Cross rather then remove Revenge from Phalanx, its easier to land the stun on enemies trying to escape then.

Prefering passives I have always personally thought double speccing and the Armsmans nature should give a bonus to critical hit if nothing else. Sadly though any such love is unlikely. I think mythic are hoping if they ignore us long enough we'll go away.

The Arc on Side Chain is quite huge so landing it is easy but I understand what you mean. Thing is, nobody would use the Side move if that was the case and with access to different moves it would leave us in a stronger position and not just spamming Rear style the whole time.

As for the RA, well I understand what you mean. I've heard many suggestions for a new RA and there are quite an amount I like. If the Mirror imaging is 2 much then perhaps.

A 25% to all group members Melee Haste speed for 30/60.
short reuse timer perhaps.

Would mean Mercs would be falling over them selfs to get us in the groups , well any melee class would be. It would be a sort of Celerity I suppose and we know how mythic like to balance realms with RA's etc ^^.

Ye those passives would truely make double speccing worth while and even mean a Hybrid arms is Still Decent. Also if you consider that a full spec S/S arms would also really benefit from these changes while not being uber. The Passive Mop would make up for his shitty 1h damage to say the least, while increasing his Parry passive 2 would make him THE best BG'er in alb imo anywayz.

 

[Robby]

I'm a RR5L5 armsman with 50 s/s spec
in words of some people: a noob who don't understand anything of the job of an armsman.
Today i walk df midside solo. And what do I see? a rr4 savage
We bow to eachother and start a fair fight. no one around, looks uberfun, although i have no chance because i'm noob arms and other is savage, the uberest from uberest class.
We had a fair fight, and it was very close. We got to less than 5% both at same time.
I think this shows s/s armsman are not noobs.
a pole, 2H or hybrid would have been p-owned probably, while i got a fair fight till less than 5%
10 secs later the fair fight was over
because i had IP and my little kobie friend hadn't.
I totally agree armsman need some luvin, but pls stop doing like we are retarded idiots who play a useless class. Give us a chance and we'll kick some ass.

 

[Honza]

Every class has it's positives and negatives. Paladins have plates, yes.. Do you want to know why? If they did not have them, they could never win single fight, because they do so low damage it takes ages to kill a single mob.
Today, I was with one my friend and cleric in darkness falls. We went to hulks, pulled two hulks and where it came from there it came from, some hib spellcaster (druid I guess) attacked us. We all did all we could and finaly we won vs 2 purp and druid. But to get the point... there are many such situations, where only thing that saves Paladin from certain death if Faith Heal. You know what is funny? Mythic stole us faith heal and to be able to do the same effect as FH has we have to spend instead of 14 rps 60+ rps.
So don't think you are only nerfed class with new frontiers. I can hardly imagine how I will be handling situations without faith heal

 

[Vindicator]

Well didnt we all Learn alot from DF today ^^

Robby so your a fully s/s arms and you dueled a solo Savage unbuffed same as your self prob ?

Savages are only uber-omg-wtf-pwn in groups when assisting fully buffed up in capped etc ... Dueling another class means 0 , squat, diddly. You can never gauge a class's strenght by its dueling stats. They mean nothing.

It's Clear to anybody who has been playing armsmen that they are indeed a forgotten class that are in need of some tweaking to be viable once again, this isnt a big secret just not stated enough for mythic to notice or Care. Armsmen were never nerfed, they just werent given anything as other class's were or became important. A rebalancing is needed.

As for Mistar pally, There are so many things I could mention / say that it would take 2 long and I just cant be bothered. I'll just say that nobody wants to nerf you Paladin, Arms just want to be as useful / Needed as they are. After all who likes playing gimps xD ? ............ < Dont answer that >

So Mythic should implement my ideas and then Arms would r0x0r :worthy:

<goes back to sleep again >

 

[Honza]

My intention was just to brighten your mood that you are not only class with troubles.

And the point of the points ^^ : it's huuuge difference between solo and group/battlegroup usability of certain classes... most significant it is on cleric. What's cleric's chance when solo? almost none. In group? It's the most looked for rank ever (at least in my case, I always like having healer behind my ass to heal me).

 

[Kagato]

My intention was just to brighten your mood that you are not only class with troubles.

And the point of the points ^^ : it's huuuge difference between solo and group/battlegroup usability of certain classes... most significant it is on cleric. What's cleric's chance when solo? almost none. In group? It's the most looked for rank ever (at least in my case, I always like having healer behind my ass to heal me).

And its quite easy to argue that the Armsman fails in all these areas, groupability everything we can do paladins or mercs can do better, soloing and dueling only high RR armsman stand a chance and even then its very dependant on experiance and spec, we do not win or excel in any area group or otherwise.

 

[Kagato]

I think this shows s/s armsman are not noobs.
a pole, 2H or hybrid would have been p-owned probably, while i got a fair fight till less than 5%
.

Why would we? 2h and pole would of had an advantage against the savage whilst as a s/s spec you were at a disadvantage with half chance to block, something parry does not suffer from.

Be happy you did well but don't think other specs would of suffered anymore, im quite happy with how I compare to savages, their so called uberness only comes from their ability to drop support classes quick, one on one with other heavy tanks there not as tough as the whiners would like you to believe.

 

[Drav]

TBH 2.5 years of nothing while the rest of you got new toys to play with should really get us something, I mean no insult to Paladins but your losing of FH is nowhere comparable to armsmen losing the amount of passives, plus det effectiveness, plus purge now costing more, plus losing PF, plus Master of Arms is gone..... theres even more....Everything the armsmen class used to try and give us any sort of an advantage is now down the toilet.

Plus for your solo PvE needs you can just get IP now anyway, ok its not ideal but please dont try to make out Frontiers has made it majorly hard for you, or anywhere near as hard as its gonna be to try and get RvR groups as an armsman after Frontiers is patched. You are albions only group end provider, nothin is gonna stop you from getting groups, (cept maybe all the armsman who sadly look like we're all gonna become paladins or mercs), because noone can do your job other than another Paladin.

Granted all classes have been nerfed Ra wise by Frontiers, but RA's we're an armsman/armswomans only chance at getting groups, now we're hmmm whats the term Im looking for, "Officially screwed" sums it up pretty well.

Even with double speccing sorted, which we've been asking for, for around 2 years, I still doubt it will get us the group friendlyness we need to compete.

 

[Thorondorito]

i made an infiltrator cause i was tired of mythic treatment to the armsman class.

in 2.5 years i think they had time to fix this class in several aspects, but they should think: "hey they have plate, its ok"

this class needs some love from mythic such as the double spec utility (1h/2h in the same training line for example)

far from this all we are getting is "nerfs" to our RA's or damage styles...

cant understand this tbh.

 

[Vodkafairy]

Give us a chance and we'll kick some ass.

aye

lets all stand at the side and let an armsman duel a savage, because THATS what rvr is all about!

sorry but that post really didn't make sense, if you want to rvr in zergs than any class is fine, if you want the rush of 1 fg vs 1 fg you have no spot in the group most of the time unless:

- you somehow manage to be a better assister than a merc
- you persuade the group to run on pots and the armsman guards (even tho its fairly useless now we got bg, not much diff between 42 and 50 shield anymore)

performance in group is completely unrelated to duelling ;p

 

[Vindicator]

Why would we? 2h and pole would of had an advantage against the savage whilst as a s/s spec you were at a disadvantage with half chance to block, something parry does not suffer from.

Be happy you did well but don't think other specs would of suffered anymore, im quite happy with how I compare to savages, their so called uberness only comes from their ability to drop support classes quick, one on one with other heavy tanks there not as tough as the whiners would like you to believe.

Actually afaik Savages are classified as single swinging not like DW/LA etc. So He shouldnt have got a penalty but This is only what I remember reading / being told by others, If not show info on it I wanna study it, now your enemy . Reason there good for getting past guard is the chance for x3 savages to double / tri / quad just Over whealming a 4 block a round shield user :x

hmm against a savage with those crazy evade rates 2h/pole would be nasty but Pole with Rage would have been nice

 

[Bracken]

if you want the rush of 1 fg vs 1 fg you have no spot in the group most of the time unless:

- you somehow manage to be a better assister than a merc
- you persuade the group to run on pots and the armsman guards (even tho its fairly useless now we got bg, not much diff between 42 and 50 shield anymore)

performance in group is completely unrelated to duelling ;p

With caster groups a bg shield/hybrid armsman will do aswell, if not better than a paladin. I have no problem getting groups on that basis.

Very true about duelling though - people gotta stop thinking because they can solo a savage it means anything at all.

 

[Kagato]

Actually afaik Savages are classified as single swinging not like DW/LA etc. So He shouldnt have got a penalty but This is only what I remember reading / being told by others, If not show info on it I wanna study it, now your enemy . Reason there good for getting past guard is the chance for x3 savages to double / tri / quad just Over whealming a 4 block a round shield user :x

hmm against a savage with those crazy evade rates 2h/pole would be nasty but Pole with Rage would have been nice

I'll have to check up on that, I assumed it was the same as DW, even if its how you say though then s/s or 2hand/pole would both be neutral, i.e neither having a set advantage over the other then is normal.

As an aside from my personal experiance I find if I land Rage early then the fight is as good as won, if I don't then it will go to the savage, win or lose it seems to be about 50/50 which is exactly how it should be in my view, I wont complain about that. It will be interesting to see how toa templates effect these things though.

 

[Dawn]

armsmen are teh r0x, see kagato: hes making full-scale fh posts in-between swings,without missing a style!

 

[Kagato]

armsmen are teh r0x, see kagato: hes making full-scale fh posts in-between swings,without missing a style!

Bitch

 

[Gorre]

did arms ever got a TL?

 

[Drav]

Mors is our TL see www.meatshield.com, doesnt seem to be getting any changes for us tho, to double speccing or snapshit, but that is probably down to mythic not Mors.