Armsman questions

G

Gwaya

Guest
Hi, I need some help regarding spec for armsman.
I know polers spec 2 speclines to get the best damage - for example pole and thrust. When wielding a polearm, can I use both polearm and thruststyles then?
Does the same "double-speccing" apply to Twohanded weapons?

What are the types for pole and twohanded? Pole = thrust and pierce? Twohanded = slash and crush?

Oh and one more thing.
If I specced fully in polearm (and for example thrust) and twohanded as armsman - would I do roughly the same damage or is polearm superior to twohanded damagewise?

Thanks in advance!
 
F

-frostor-

Guest
Originally posted by Gwaya
Hi, I need some help regarding spec for armsman.
I know polers spec 2 speclines to get the best damage - for example pole and thrust. When wielding a polearm, can I use both polearm and thruststyles then?
Does the same "double-speccing" apply to Twohanded weapons?

What are the types for pole and twohanded? Pole = thrust and pierce? Twohanded = slash and crush?

Oh and one more thing.
If I specced fully in polearm (and for example thrust) and twohanded as armsman - would I do roughly the same damage or is polearm superior to twohanded damagewise?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

u can only use pole styles when wielding a polearm

same thing for 2H

pole and 2h can be slash , crush and thrust

polearm will do more dmg but theres a difference in spd ofco , and the styles
 
B

bracken_woodman

Guest
There have been logs recently comparing 2H and Pole damage which show that there isn't a significant difference except on one specific pole style (I forget which one). If I could be bothered I'd find the links...but basically go for the one which grabs you as a concept because generally there isnt much difference in terms of damage.
 
N

Namtih

Guest
i got a 50 full pole arms and he is slash, damage is awesum, only thing i can complain about is the effective spd, with buffs and a haste proc on weap i swing as fast as a 2Hed Arms but with much more damage
 
K

Kagato.

Guest
At the moment Poles are a slightly better and more common choice, however you may want to read future patch notes as this will change and two-handed will become more popular then it is now. (trying to resist bringing up the polearm nerf or no nerf argument again here).

The main advantage is that polearms are 100% strength based no matter what damage type you choose, even thrust, whereas two-handed thrust weapons are based on 75% strength and 25% dex, though some claim its bugged that is how it is supposed to work.

You wont go far wrong either way so if you like the idea of poles go for poles, if you want two-handed weapons go for them, either way it pays to go full 50 spec in one or the other.

50 pole/two-handed
50 thrust/slash/crush
28 parry

is the common fully offensive spec.

Some prefer a hybrid spec but i'll let someone else tell you about that, I don't care for it much myself. :)
 
S

stighelmer

Guest
Hmm, those VN Board results were really interesting. Maybe time to lower slash again :)
 
G

gunner440

Guest
oh and lol @ those dudes trying to be wannabe infils

tell me

do u get the line styles with +skill? didnt think so :eek:
 
S

stighelmer

Guest
Am I missing something here?

For a PURE pole user, your slash spec does NOTHING to your WS.
Also, as a pure pole user, why would ever worry about not getting the styles from your damage type spec ?

Only reason for higher damage type spec was to minimize variance - by increasing minimum damage. This effect seems according to these findings to be _very_ marginal when you go over 50 with your total spec in damage type. I.e. a possible strategy would be to always make sure you have just 50 including items and RR. Hence 30+20 for a RR10 arms would be just fine.

That is, IF these findings are to be trusted...
 
G

gunner440

Guest
haha i alrdy tried it

44+8 slash
50+8+11 2h

and now 44+9+11 slash
50+9+11 2h

i noticed less variance ~~
 
S

stighelmer

Guest
Well that is really the argument that is valid against their findings. Their data extracted by hitting a milegate or whatever is somehow not reflecting how calculations are made towards other players in RvR.

I went from 39 + 11 + 3 to now 50 + 11 + 4 in slash and cannot _honestly_ say that I notice that much of a diff. That is why I would be interested in some statistically significant data showing the benefits of a higher damage type spec to settle the argument :)
 
K

Kagato.

Guest
Personally i'd suggest waiting to see what Mythic does about fixing the double-spec issues before any major spec changes.

Or maybe im just being to hopeful that they'll actually make a change for the better.

Personally I have always stuck with 50+11 Pole and straight 50 thrust (not counting RR's), I left +Thrust out of my spellcraft template to save room for other things and due to the lesser benefit post 50, letting just RR improve it.

Maybe a good idea, maybe not, but at the end of the day you can argue the pros and cons of it endlessely with still no hard proof.
 
B

bracken_woodman

Guest
I respecced from 2H hybrid (50 2H, 39 slash, 42 shield) to full 50 / 50 . The improvement in variance isn't that great, and I would still say the hybrid is a very good option if you fancy it. Only reason I respecced is because I got bored of still having to be the group guard :p
 
S

stighelmer

Guest
Statistics can be used to clarify the relationship between two variables, i.e. your damage type spec and your damage variance.

In this case it would be done by using log files in a structured way.

Originally posted by gunner440
experience > statistics
Click to expand...

k
 
G

gunner440

Guest
Originally posted by stighelmer

k
Click to expand...


ìf u want to take a dude who tests on a milegate seriously then u can go ahead.. i said what ive seen and i dont care how many milegates he destroys..
 
S

stighelmer

Guest
Originally posted by gunner440
ìf u want to take a dude who tests on a milegate seriously then u can go ahead.. i said what ive seen and i dont care how many milegates he destroys..
Click to expand...
Gunz, hunny, either you are willingly trying to misunderstand me or I am not making myself clear.

1. I do not consider the analysis he made on a milegate good enough.

2. Compared to that analysis I would also go with your experience and my own, saying that there is a chance base damage over 50 really has an effect on variance.

3. However, it would still be interesting to see an analysis done by using log files (from doing real RvR) over a longer period of time using both 50+ and exactly 50 base damage, because that would give absolute _certain_ results - not only results based on experience.

So, to sumarize:

experience > VGN dude banging on milegate
proper statistical analysis (time consuming to be sure) > experience

Just because I cba to make that analysis does not mean I wouldn't find the results interesting if it was done in a correct way.

Cheers.
 
G

gunner440

Guest
done in a correct way? how

each person u will fight will have different armor types, different dur/con on their armor, different buffs etc etc ~~

sometimes u might get debuffed, or u might be unbuffed or buffed bla bla
 
S

stighelmer

Guest
Originally posted by gunner440
done in a correct way? how

each person u will fight will have different armor types, different dur/con on their armor, different buffs etc etc ~~

sometimes u might get debuffed, or u might be unbuffed or buffed bla bla
Click to expand...

Here is how I would do it to minimize the possiblity of the results being affected by other factors, I am sure u could think of others.

1. Get a couple of chars together. Mebe a cleric to buff me and one or two chars from hib/mid. Or if I was being ambitious I would get 1 fg alb, 1fg hib and 1 fg mid. Fully buffed and eb:ed etc.
2. Meet somewhere obscure, like Snowdonia or summin.
3. Make sure to note how everyone including myself is buffed and eb:ed.
4. Whack the ppl from hib/mid a couple of hundred times (them being healed now and then). Log all these results. The number of times u whack will ofc be a trade off between my ambition and stamina.
5. Get hold of a respec stone. Lower my slash spec from 50 to 35 (gives me 50 atm in total)
6. redo 3 and 4 making sure everything but the slash spec is the same.
7. Make the necessary calculations.
8. Depending on the outcome either go back to original spec with slash at 50+11+4 or put my spec points in parry and shield...

Just a thought.

Another way (less cumbersome but more difficult to rule out other effects) would simply be to log your RvR action for a week or two. Do a respec and do the same. The absolute numbers you are hitting would depend on alot of things (buff, debuff etc) but the _variance_ should still be possible to extract as a _percentage_, hence hopefully reducing the effect of other variables
 
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