Armsman Love! well abit anyway

[Firebirth]

Just checked the camelot herald and the new patch notes are out 1.71D and LO WHAT DO I SEE HERE.

CLASS CHANGES AND FIXES

General

- Added the Shield Swipe style to the shield line of Warriors, Armsman, and Heros. Shield swipe is a level 41 AE shield attack that does low damage.


Okay it aint doublespeccing fix or anything decent and its not just for armsman but its an option.

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/1726.shtml

 

[gunner440]

that isnt love

at all

 

[judas]

might make zoy roll a arms tho :>

 

[Rulke]

Does it stun? Oo

 

[Draylor]

Fluff

 

[Kagato]

general heavy tank change, nothing to do with just armsmen, and considering that its much harder for armsmen to spec defensive and offensive at the same time it really just puts us further behind warriors and heros to be honest.

Not impressed.

 

[Raven]

doubt that style will make it to anyones QB.

 

[Firebirth]

Troops on vnboards suggesting this style could be useful for pulling mobs, a sort of AOE taunt and possibly a method of interrupting casters. Its being tested at the mo on pendragon and apparently it uses reduced amounts of endurance compared to slam and does some nice damage (~200 damage to target and ~50 for people in range).

 

[Flimgoblin]

sounds like a nifty pve style - wish my merc got it though

at least it's accessible for a hybrid armsman.

 

[Flimgoblin]

looking at the rest of the patch though - the change to teleporting is kinda melee love since it adds a bit more "running between"

 

[Raven]

actually thinking about it, this will be great vs brittle guards

 

[Jaem-]

Don't know about the 3 tanks that much, but doesn't hero need to double spec also?

 

[Draylor]

Troops on vnboards suggesting this style could be useful for pulling mobs, a sort of AOE taunt

PvE isnt where armsmen are needing help, so thats rather irrelevant.

Dont pay too much attention to that "200+" damage numbers either: the testing in that VN thread was against low blue/high green con mobs

Don't know about the 3 tanks that much, but doesn't hero need to double spec also?

No.

 

[Drav]

WTF no new helms? May be good for interupting but whats the point when we have reavers?

 

[Bracken]

possibly a method of interrupting casters.

That is the only possible benefit in rvr, but to be much use it would have to have a decent radius on it - and given that it's a shield style I doubt the range is anything more than guard. Now if they made it a 1500 radius (call it Boomerang Shield ) then we'd be in businees

 

[Lothandar]

general heavy tank change, nothing to do with just armsmen, and considering that its much harder for armsmen to spec defensive and offensive at the same time it really just puts us further behind warriors and heros to be honest.

Not impressed.

Your points are wrong, a PE armsman (forgot his nick sadly) hit my bard for 600 damage with his slash pole steadily on pryd, after he slammed me so its obviously the hybrid spec.

The thing putting you behind heroes and warriors is called "The Paladin",

Not speccing, you can spec just as well to be both good at defense and offense. 50 pole 42 shield 39 wpnspec (39+11 ~ eliminated variance on pole damage) comes to mind. You don't need 50 shield anyway with bg now.

 

[Lothandar]

No.

Well in a reduced form, they have to, to be able to do something apart from looking pretty with shield out.

50 shield 50 lw 28 blade is decent, as you don't need to eliminate variance on lw by speccing your wpnspec to the effective of "50".

 

[Bracken]

Your points are wrong, a PE armsman (forgot his nick sadly) hit my bard for 600 damage with his slash pole steadily on pryd, after he slammed me so its obviously the hybrid spec.

The thing putting you behind heroes and warriors is called "The Paladin",

Not speccing, you can spec just as well to be both good at defense and offense. 50 pole 42 shield 39 wpnspec (39+11 ~ eliminated variance on pole damage) comes to mind. You don't need 50 shield anyway with bg now.

Some people don't like to lose the 2% damage that going hybrid causes...don't get it myself, but each to their own.

You're right about our main "problem" (in terms of grouping) being paladins (for defensive armsmen) and mercs ofc for offensive armsmen - but Kagato is right in the sense that heros and warriors suffer less damage variance than we do even when armsmen go full spec...which is clearly daft.

 

[Alithiel]

You're right about our main "problem" (in terms of grouping) being paladins (for defensive armsmen) and mercs ofc for offensive armsmen

In NF the situation will become even more bleak for heavy tanks, Paladins as well as Armsmen. Even now I'm running in a lot of groups that don't use either, prefering a BG Friar for resists and backup healing if we even bother with a BG at all.

 

[Bracken]

In NF the situation will become even more bleak for heavy tanks, Paladins as well as Armsmen.

Indeed...and nothing in the patches coming up in US is gonna change that

 

[Draylor]

Well in a reduced form, they have to, to be able to do something apart from looking pretty with shield out.

Not really. Doesnt matter if they have 1, 7, or 20 1h spec - they wont do any more than tickle.

From what I remember the usual cookie-cutter hero spec had 7 in 1h weapon spec.

 

[Jaem-]

I still don't get the diff between the armsman and hero... both seem to need to spec same way... someone explain :<

 

[[SS]Gamblor]

I still don't get the diff between the armsman and hero... both seem to need to spec same way... someone explain :<

ok armsman uses a polearm lets say and hero uses a Spear

Armsman has to spec what type of pole to use (slash,crush,thrust) but ALSO has to train in that dmg type.

a Hero has to jsut train spear ( Thrust dmg).

now lets take 2handers ...

Again a Armsman has to choosh wat dmg type to do ( crush/slash/thrust) and train that dmg type .. e.g. crush


a Hero just has to spec in Large Wepons. ( get to use both slash and crush ) thats that.

so a armsman has to spend alot more points in order to offensive .



Did i get that right Vindi or Kag ? ;P

 

[Flimgoblin]

a hero can spec 50 LW and 1 blunt and still do the max damage in either slash or crush LWs.

to do max damage an armsman has to spec 50 polearm and 50 slash (for a slash polearm, thrust for a thrust polearm, crush for a crush polearm)

There is some evidence pointing to them only having to get a modified base damage of 50 so they can get away with between 28 (at RR12 heh) and 39(at RR1) in the base weapon spec and still get full damage.

Still a lot more than 1

Now comparing a hero with a hybrid armsman the typical hero goes:
50 LW (or spear) 42 shield ?? parry ?? 1h
they don't have to spec a lot in 1h, but they have a choice in how much they want incase they're runnign around pretending to be a s/s type.

hybrid armsman would be
50 pole (or 2h) 42 shield 35ish base, leaving not very much in parry. There's not much flexibility in this.

A hero can spec the same as a hybrid armsman but doesn't need to and if they don't all they lose out in is damage when playing 1h, which in theory isn't very often.

In return the hero gets a load more parry which is your only defence when wielding a big 2h thingie and the ability to turn into a vision of Cernunnos (or a giant m00se depending on how little you care for myths and stuff) doubling their hp for a while and giving them a nice handy heal once every 30m.

Also the hero gets to choose between either thrust or switching between crush/slash damage and the armsman is stuck with a single damage type.

 

[Kagato]

Your points are wrong, a PE armsman (forgot his nick sadly) hit my bard for 600 damage with his slash pole steadily on pryd, after he slammed me so its obviously the hybrid spec.

The thing putting you behind heroes and warriors is called "The Paladin",

Not speccing, you can spec just as well to be both good at defense and offense. 50 pole 42 shield 39 wpnspec (39+11 ~ eliminated variance on pole damage) comes to mind. You don't need 50 shield anyway with bg now.

No my points are right, but everyone else has just saved me the trouble of having to answer, cheers guys

As for the shield style, again its only possible use is as an interrupting tool, and on the flip side, as a mezz breaking tool in noob hands. Which wont do much for the Armsmans reputation as a viable group class.

That aside its uses for destroying brittle guards i'd actually find quite useful myself when soloing, but I already have cowering bellow for that.

But fear not Armsmen, we'll soon have Snapshot, and everyone will want us !

 

[Raven]

In return the hero gets a load more parry which is your only defence when wielding a big 2h thingie and the ability to turn into a vision of Cernunnos (or a giant m00se depending on how little you care for myths and stuff) doubling their hp for a while and giving them a nice handy heal once every 30m.

its 1.5x your HP and we have the worst armour of any tank in the game, scale being weak to the most common damage type. Not saying armsman dont find it hard, but mostly thats down to there being better alternatives, pallie etc. Also at least an arms does pretty good damage with 1h, if you want to go 2h on a hero your 1h damage is utterly shit and only good for interupting (unless you have 0 parry or something)

 

[Vindicator]

aoe shield melee movie = Interupt on pbae box.

Or Just General Interuption on more than 1 Character which is nice, it's something as opposed to Nothing. Dont know it'd call it luv :x

Now comparing a hero with a hybrid armsman the typical hero goes:
50 LW (or spear) 42 shield ?? parry ?? 1h
they don't have to spec a lot in 1h, but they have a choice in how much they want incase they're runnign around pretending to be a s/s type.

hybrid armsman would be
50 pole (or 2h) 42 shield 35ish base, leaving not very much in parry. There's not much flexibility in this.


Also the hero gets to choose between either thrust or switching between crush/slash damage and the armsman is stuck with a single damage type.

With BG here and indeed Toa. Hero's Dont need 50 Shield anymore and cant really take advantage of Slash / Crush Weapons for Free. They will be using Battler / Malice Axe. you cant get a Crafted Weapon with the same stats and once you activate it as Slash or Crush thats it. Switching between Malice and Battler yield very different Stats and important dmg % speed % and Style % respectively.

Hero's used to spec high in 1h so they would have a Higher Chance to land Slam. the more 1h ws you have the easier it is to land slam was what was believed but I have heard another theory that its it's their shield skill * their dex * some constants... divided by your weapon spec * your dex. < tm pin >

hero's and Arms are quite similar espically when you factor ml's in < they negate the real bonus hero's did have with high Shield spec> but hero's dont have Paladin's to compete with . They just get to Smack em

 

[Kagato]

its 1.5x your HP and we have the worst armour of any tank in the game, scale being weak to the most common damage type. Not saying armsman dont find it hard, but mostly thats down to there being better alternatives, pallie etc. Also at least an arms does pretty good damage with 1h, if you want to go 2h on a hero your 1h damage is utterly shit and only good for interupting (unless you have 0 parry or something)

The slash weak arguement is rather old, anyone dumb enough to waste time whacking the hero in melee rather then the support classes deserves to get owned and most serious RvR people are running caster groups now anyway so slash damage is the least of your worries, and with elemental weapons about now common melee damage types are not even as frequent.

 

[Rulke]

If you hit a bodyguarder with this, does it interupt the person hes guarding?

 

[Jaem-]

thanks for the explaination guys

kinda like LA needing to be speced to get dmg on main hand in mid.

Rulke, lol super avatar ^^