Are griefers really to blame because the system allows them to grief?

[Matmardigan]

hmm, wow loot system would solve promlems like this.

if an iteam drops, a little dice window pops and the highest dicer wins the iteam.

so Mythic is the 1 who should get flammed, because they give the opportiunity 4 ppl 2 steal iteams.

Are griefers really to blame because the system allows them to grief?

discuss


edit - added matmardigan's original post - Flim

 

[Funkybunny]

discuss

i asked the oracle.. 2 times.. one in the first.. and one in the third movie...

and both times.. the answer was:

 

[Thorwyn]

Well... is it ok to fart into someones face because there is no law saying you´re not allowed to?

 

[Matmardigan]

buhahahaha the oracle in Matrix 3 looks like the female version of Morgan Freeman

 

[Flimgoblin]

I think the system should include the society as well as the hard coded rules - hard coded rules are easy to work around, a society that sets its ideals and looks after them is much harder.

A good example is DF merchants: the system let you kill the monsters and annoy people - so people did that until the system got changed a patch alter.

However a healthy society would just refuse to deal with the griefers, policing them in that way, which is far more flexible.

If you blame the game for someone being a complete prick then you're just gonna get griefed even more

 

[Marc]

The buck stops with the individual. Are gun manufacturers at fault when someone shoots a person? I know its not the same as some spotty little nerd stealing a GoV, but its still similar.

 

[Matmardigan]

Well... is it ok to fart into someones face because there is no law saying you´re not allowed to?

first lesson in uni, which we learned in law is.

Ur rights ends where my nose begins.

but the "POINT" is.

The SYSTEM allows it. So shouldnt be the system maker aka MYTHIC guilty 2?

 

[Thorwyn]

But that wasn´t the question you asked
The question was: "are griefers to blame because the system allows them to grief" and the answer is yes because even if the system doesn´t specifically prevent certain things, it doesn´t make them right.

The question wasn´t "is the system to blame because it´s allowing people to grief". But even if that´s the question, it remains the same: is the system responsible when someon is farting into your face? I don´t think so.

 

[Arkian]

Mat the system only allows it in the same way that the real life system allows sombedy to commit the act of murder, i.e. there is nothing in place to prevent the action, only to invoke a consequence.

The parallel is in the CoC in that GOA may if they judge the action to be grief play invoke a consequence (suspension, ban etc.).

So isn't the question should GOA be punishing more or more severely - again a nice parallel with our UK judicial system atm.

 

[Matmardigan]

think we all know the common law. Ofc grifers are 2 blame.Just copy/paste Flims post

Its against law if u rob, murder or hurt any1.

But its against law 2, if u dont do anything against it. (talking about Mythic)

There will be always ppl like Troggdor, Whatabpaoe and who knows the other names.

If u dont help or dont do anything if an crime is happening then ur guilty 2. (talking about Mythic)

And i blame Mythic. They have the opportiunity 2 change it.

 

[Kagato]

Both are to blame for different reasons

The griefer is to blame for being the sort of low life piece of shit that can't respect anyone else's feelings.

Mythic are to blame for not being responsible about their product, they could change it, they could of solved the problem before there ever was one but they did not think it through nor made any attempt to make an environment where people can't take advantage of other people trust.

 

[Golena]

if an iteam drops, a little dice window pops and the highest dicer wins the iteam.

I'm unsure how this is different to how daoc works, except they put a nifty little graphic up before the item was distributed. Maybe someone can elaborate.

 

[Gravediggah]

I do actually have a few options here.

Not sure if we seperate theft from grief but i asume we do, Grief is a pretty strong word aswell that covers a pretty large area and means diffrent from guy to guy.

Anywas, If i have GoV and i do GoV again sure i want to roll for it "that is grief to some ppl" To me its not really i do same job=same pay

If i see a grey i do kill them i dont think twice about it, Overall i play tough/rough in all games i play i dont whine if it happends too me either i get even.

I think i saw some quick post about DF merchants from daoc mod or something, I do not call that grief lol. Ok a patch fixed the issue but that was stupidity and nothing else atleast to me.

I also think the mmorpg games are a very tough/rough type of gameplay overall im raised within games like this the hard way, When i played UO i kept getting ganked over and over and over sure it sucked arse but im not a looser who quit i ran ressed and restocked and ran back again. That is how i learned the pvp i got so damn mutch spank it costed alot but it aint over until the phat lady does breakdance.

To ppl who get upset/disslike ppl who play as they say griefy..Dont cry and bitch get even some in game wont understand until you settle the score.

ofc i slipped some from the subject But i do not think the system is to blame for the so called grief that is a bad arse excuse from the players, Just cause WoW has implanted a carebear loot system.

release 100k among 1000ppl and you will see crazy foes, If you get to mutch money paid back from the tax money, If you dont report it you can not say "your system is ......" you will still have to pay them back.

So final if you mean the system is weak, and the players takes advantage of it, well probably that is the case and it wont cease until daoc is dead and burried, ppl will always no matter what game rl issue if you can get something abusing it "without" breaking any law ppl will do so no matter what system it is under.

 

[waok`whips]

Why was the oracle wearing green in all movies? :<

 

[Xoxarle]

Mat the system only allows it in the same way that the real life system allows sombedy to commit the act of murder, i.e. there is nothing in place to prevent the action, only to invoke a consequence.

The parallel is in the CoC in that GOA may if they judge the action to be grief play invoke a consequence (suspension, ban etc.).

So isn't the question should GOA be punishing more or more severely - again a nice parallel with our UK judicial system atm.

The difference being, the act or murder is entirely unpreventable. Drop theft is very much preventable, and should be prevented.

If Murder was preventable, we'd prevent it, or we'd be fools if we didn't.

 

[rayzor]

I'm unsure how this is different to how daoc works, except they put a nifty little graphic up before the item was distributed. Maybe someone can elaborate.

you can set the loot options to "need before greed" so that only classes that can actually use the drop are allowed to roll. also there is an option to pass on each individual item, if a player decides they don't want/won't use an item.
this system can be got round i'm sure thou.

 

[Golena]

you can set the loot options to "need before greed" so that only classes that can actually use the drop are allowed to roll. also there is an option to pass on each individual item, if a player decides they don't want/won't use an item.
this system can be got round i'm sure thou.

It would also lead to situations where you'd have great difficulty getting a random cleric to help you with arti's such as shades of mist as they couldn't roll for it for there paladin alt.

 

[Matmardigan]

you can set the loot options to "need before greed"

It would also lead to situations where you'd have great difficulty getting a random cleric to help you with arti's such as shades of mist as they couldn't roll for it for there paladin alt.

read his post again plz.

U can set loot options.

Need b4 greed
Everybody against everybody
Leader as treasurer
and so on

 

[Flimgoblin]

can you have someone setting the loot to leader as treasurer without telling everyone (or without them noticing, or before they join the group) and running off with the loot?

 

[Gravediggah]

can you have someone setting the loot to leader as treasurer without telling everyone (or without them noticing, or before they join the group) and running off with the loot?

If you done same work, sence there is no "camping/claiming" any mobs in game sure you can, sence you all in BG aswell.

Bottom line is as GoA said keeper gets it, or atleast that what i have heard if you are in the BG..there is nothing you can do about it, even if i have SoM i might need it JUST to sell it cause i need money for scrolls on other artifact perhaps or trade for another artifact i need.

You dont come and paint my house for free, just cause i ask you to helpout.

Now can we go get some artifacts?

 

[nimronn]

buhahahaha the oracle in Matrix 3 looks like the female version of Morgan Freeman

very true lol

 

[eggy]

can you have someone setting the loot to leader as treasurer without telling everyone (or without them noticing, or before they join the group) and running off with the loot?

Gimp: /bg invite Gimpsbb
Gimp: /bg lootlevel 35
Gimp: /bg loot treasurer
Gimp: /bg treasurer Gimp
Gimp: /bg public
Gimp Yells: "Join my BG!"
Mug1 joins the BG.
Mug2 joins the BG.
Mug3 joins the BG.
Mug4 joins the BG.

...

Danos drops a Guard of Valor
[BG loot] Guard of Valor goes to Gimp
Gimp: /bg leave
Gimp: /afk making toast
Gimp: /anon
Mug1: "wtf"
Mug2: "omg I need this for my necro"
Mug3: "LOOT TAJ STTEALER!!"
Mug4: "sigh mates"

...

Mug1 sends: "EGGY EGGY SOMEONE STILL GOV !11"
You send: "Was there a BG?" to Mug1
Mug1 sends: "YES BUT HE STOLE YES"
You send: "Was lootlevel set to him?" to Mug1
Mug1 sends: "YES BUT STOLE OMG"
You send: "If there was a BG treasurer set, it's actually his GoV to do with as he wishes. If you have any further questions, it's probably best to Rightnow the issue with screenshots." to Mug1
Mug1 sends: "FS CBA I'M ROLLING MID".

...

Repeat for Mugs 2 through 4.

 

[Matmardigan]

can you have someone setting the loot to leader as treasurer without telling everyone (or without them noticing, or before they join the group) and running off with the loot?

the answer of ur question is yes.

If u dont do anything aganst it.

looting system changes will dispaly in chat.

if any1 trys 2 grief iteams through setting leader as tresurer ull see it.
And u can take actions against it.

if any1 join/leave the existing group, looting system change automaticly back 2 looting in group.

So he have 2 set himself again as tresurer.

if he does it again, u guys can leave and can start a new group without him.

Looting system is always set as looting in group if u start a group. And if any1 change it, u can blame him b4 u kill any mobs.

PS:

in daoc u cant do anything if any1 is setting himself as treasurer if he started the bg.