Anti-Americanism - Jealous?

[bigbb]

I've just caught the end of Newsnight and in their regular debate towards the end of the programme the report looked at the new George Michael single and video satirising American foreign policies and their relationship with Europe. It further led to the debate of anti-Americanism in Europe. With perfect timing and illustration the American journalist on the panel said, "The rise in anti-Americanism in Europe, and particularly Britain, is for many reasons, mostly jealously and resentment". Or words to that effect.

Have the Americans learnt nothing? In such blatent arrogance are they really surprised why anti-Americanism is so prominant in Europeans, and most prominantly, the media?

 

[FatBusinessman]

Oh, but of course everyone should love America, because they stand for democracy and freedom and all that is right in the world. No, really.

 

[bigbb]

Heh, indeedy. The best democracy in the world, no doubt about it. Freedom of trade and love of democracy.

Must say, they're jolly nice chaps over Pakistan. Lifting those sanctions on a military dicatorship. Steel tariffs? Well lets not be silly, America's inefficient steel industry does need a head start. Freedom of trade can only go so far, you know.

 

[Embattle]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_2083000/2083480.stm

 

[projectarnold]

Originally posted by Embattle
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_2083000/2083480.stm

He'll only get shamed into resigning when the tabloids find out he's been humping his secretary's leg.

 

[Wij]

They debated this on 5 live this morning. I don't agree. America's not perfect but name me a country that is. Why hate them ? I don't understand that.

 

[granny]

It's the arrogance that is hateful. Of course they're not all like that, but the vast majority of the americans I've met are. Their country is best at everything, everyone else from anywhere else in the world is inferior to them simply for not being american.

And of course they tend to have that incredibly endearing combination of arrogance and ignorance at the same time.

Lovely, lovely people. Make them go away please.

 

[LTF]

Thats just them being over patriotic imo...

THey are gobby too tho

 

[xane]

Originally posted by granny
It's the arrogance that is hateful. Of course they're not all like that, but the vast majority of the americans I've met are. Their country is best at everything, everyone else from anywhere else in the world is inferior to them simply for not being american.

Same what Wij said before, name a country that doesn't think this ?

The basic problem is that bashing america is pretty much taken for granted, but criticism directed at other countries and cutures, particularly those not as wealthy as the western world, is often seen as non-PC or even racist.

 

[throdgrain]

I like being non-pc
Having said that, they are a lot of them hideously arrogant and ill-educated about the world around them. But then when you live in such a huge country why should you bother thinking about how anyone else lives I guess is thier attitude, when you consider you can fit Great Britain about 10 times into Texas, or so im told, it puts the size thing into perspective. Hence their "world Baseball series", with only American teams in it

 

[Nightchill]

wasn't this in southpark?

Stan: buy why do you hate americans?
3rd world kid: because you don't realise that everyone hates you!

sort of a circular argument but hey..

 

[Scouse]

Some Americans, yesterday.

 

[granny]

Originally posted by camazotz
Same what Wij said before, name a country that doesn't think this ?

I really disagree that it's something all countries exhibit to the extent that americans do. With americans it's unavoidable, they shove it down your throat, they go on and on and on about it, it is the basis of everything they believe and underlies all other aspects of their personalities.

With most people they are themselves first and where they're from second. With the overwhelming majority of americans they are americans first and whatever else they are second.

 

[granny]

Originally posted by camazotz
The basic problem is that bashing america is pretty much taken for granted, but criticism directed at other countries and cutures, particularly those not as wealthy as the western world, is often seen as non-PC or even racist.

I hate "political correctness" - in my eyes it's an excuse for simply changing the language of difficult problems rather than actually tackling the problems :/

But I know what you mean and I think that generalisations are dangerous things to make regardless of what nationality/country/race etc etc you're generalising about, which is why I'm very careful to say "most americans" or "the majority of those I've met" instead of making blanket generalisations.

I suppose when it comes down to it all any of us can really talk about is our own experiences and to avoid telling the truth about those experiences in the name of political correctness or whatever strikes me as daft.

 

[granny]

Originally posted by Nightchill
wasn't this in southpark?

Stan: buy why do you hate americans?
3rd world kid: because you don't realise that everyone hates you!

sort of a circular argument but hey..

Haha Actually you can substitute "doctors" for "americans" in that quote and it holds perfectly true (within hospitals anyway)

Edit: Oh dear, 3 in a row, I've been turned into a spamm0r!

 

[xane]

I do find a measure of irony in many British people (me being one of them) chastising America for their inward-looking self-congratulatory ego, whilst Britain _did_ rule the world many years back, that is all in the past, but there are still many who believe otherwise, that Britain is still some kind of econmic and military superpower, something becoming all too apparent with recent debates about the Euro.

The amount of information I read coming from America does actually show that a lot of Americans are in fact deeply critical of their own country for many reasons, I honestly do not believe that America has a bigger proportion of arrogance than any other country.

What the Americans are good at is self-publicity, mainly because they control and manipulate the media that is used to promote it.

 

[granny]

Maybe I've just been unlucky with the americans I've met

 

[FatBusinessman]

Originally posted by Wij
America's not perfect but name me a country that is.

True, every country believes (to a certain extent) that it is better and more important than all other countries. That's just being human

But Americans seem to believe that they are so much better than other countries that they are actually "above the law" (example), and unfortunately the "War on Terror" only seems to have reinforced that.

 

[xane]

Originally posted by FatBusinessman
But Americans seem to believe that they are so much better than other countries that they are actually "above the law" (example), [...]

I just read the example article and I don't see how that relates to "above the law" ?

 

[granny]

Basically the US is making things difficult for the new ICC which comes into force today because with the ICC in place US soldiers could be held accountable if they commit acts which could be classed as war crimes.

They're making noises because they don't want there to be any way they could be taken to court (in this case an international court set up to try those accused of war crimes including genocide etc) if they break international law. And the way they're making noises is by vetoing an extension of the Bosnia peacekeeping force for a further 6 months.

Toys, pram, etc.

 

[Wij]

From whart I heard this morning loads of countries didn't want to sign up to that. Including China, Russia and all but one of the Arab nations.

Speaking of China. If ever there is an inward-looking country China is it. Throughout its history it has barely cared what the rest of the world has done. It's their choice. Not yours.

American foreign policy gets criticised whatever it does. If they intervene then they are 'interfering' in their own interests. But when your interests are as wide as the US then it would be virtually impossible to find a situation where you couldn't show some link to make it sound like self-interest. If they do nothing then they are characterised as inward-looking and not caring about anything that's not in their own interest. I'm sure with time you could find a link to show that it would be in their interest in exactly the same way as the other cases but nobody bothers to do so when the US doesn't intervene. If prima facie it seems to prove what you already believe you don't question it.

Doesn't it strike people as odd that the US gets criticised for being isolationist by the same people who criticise it for being interfering ?

In addition, nearly all the yanks I've met have been very nice people. My cousin is marrying one next month.

I refuse to hate any country just because everyone else does. Except the French

 

[Embattle]

Originally posted by camazotz
whilst Britain _did_ rule the world many years back, that is all in the past, but there are still many who believe otherwise, that Britain is still some kind of econmic and military superpower, something becoming all too apparent with recent debates about the Euro.

Sorry but most people don't believe that....at least they realise there is a world outside the UK.

 

[FatBusinessman]

Originally posted by Wij
In addition, nearly all the yanks I've met have been very nice people. My cousin is marrying one next month.

Sadly, neither the Americans you have met nor your cousin's fiancé are running the country. I'm sure that a large proportion of individual Americans are very nice people (I know, I've met several of them). However, the American nation as a whole is pretty arrogant, from what I've seen and heard.

 

[Scouse]

This thread doesn't need to be disrupted by any contribution from me...


































Oops....

 

[xane]

Originally posted by Embattle
Sorry but most people don't believe that....at least they realise there is a world outside the UK.

I said "many people", and my argument is that no more than the "many Americans" who shout about their own country.

 

[xane]

Originally posted by granny
Basically the US is making things difficult for the new ICC which comes into force today because with the ICC in place US soldiers could be held accountable if they commit acts which could be classed as war crimes.

Well, firstly the rule will only apply to American peacekeepers on duty at the time of the accusations, and it is not supposing that America will veto _all_ accusations either.

Seeing as they _are_ the country who have the largest ass on the line (and Americans do have extremely large asses), they have the most to lose.

Originally posted by granny
They're making noises because they don't want there to be any way they could be taken to court (in this case an international court set up to try those accused of war crimes including genocide etc) if they break international law.

I think that's rather cynical thinking, this is not an "exempt" clause, just allowing a possible veto, and it applies to _all_ the UN Security Council members.

 

[Embattle]

Originally posted by camazotz


I said "many people", and my argument is that no more than the "many Americans" who shout about their own country.

Many then.

 

[mr.Blacky]

all well and nice about the ICC but the US has made a law that says that they are going to attack/invade a nato ally. You cant do that and expect people to like you.

 

[granny]

Originally posted by camazotz
I think that's rather cynical thinking, this is not an "exempt" clause, just allowing a possible veto, and it applies to _all_ the UN Security Council members.

Yeah, I'm cynical. About most things, but particularly US foreign policy

 

[(Shovel)]

Mr Blackshirt, link?

And surely that would just break down Nato and America would lose global support?

America is full of flaws, of course it is, we can pick holes in their leaders .. ahem... or in their Electoral College (the representation 'fiddle' that elected Bush rather than the popular vote) but we have plenty of our own problems - House Of Lords etc.

I think the reason for growing anti-Americanism is that they are extremely irresponsible on a global scale. No one here cares much about the Arizona fires or how the US Government tackles them cause that is confined to being American business*. However, there is an increasingly obvious problem that the President, despite being a murderous fucktard, has massive - unelected - power over the globe. He has immense privilage to influence world politics and the people of the world. People who can't and will never elect him - cause they're not American.
Obviously I'm not proposing we demand a vote in the next US presidential election, but ignorance fuels the hatred. Bush doesn't give a shit about worldly agreements and is tearing down internernational agreements without explaination. We can argue about the relevance of Anti- Nuclear arms acts in 2002 when the US and Russia are OK with each other, and the flaws of the Kyoto protocols, but he is demostrating a principal. George Bush will happily change the world, but he doesn't care about the consequences to people who aren't paying his bills.

This effect is that when George Bush gets an 80% approval rating, we reflect that in his worldly actions and lambast them. Justifyably, I think.