Angel Vs Spike

[Jonny_Darko]

As much as I hate fanfic, and lame speculation like this, I have to share some thoughts on how this new season of Angel could go. I may have guessed what they're planning, or I may have come up with something they haven't considered. Either way, I think Mutant Enemy needs to employ me as a writer!

How to make Angel the best, edgiest, cleverest show on television:

At the end of Season 4, they dabbled with a very interesting theme with the Jasmine storyline - where lines between good and evil become blurred...all that "We didn't end world peace, we stopped a nefarious global domination scheme" stuff. I reckon this has a lot more potential as a theme. Some really clever stuff could be done on "perspective".

For this idea to work, Spike's going to have to become solid again, but I can't imagine they're not planning that anyway.

Currently we know two things...despite the fact that we probably don't trust Spike, he is one of the good guys. In the second episode, if he was going to betray Angel, he would have, but as he said he doesn't play for that side anymore.

So Spike's a good guy, but we also know he doesn't like Angel, for many personal reasons, but he also believes Angel's made a "Devil's Bargain".

Imagine this set-up for the show then. Spike becomes solid again. He and Angel have an almighty falling out (probably caused by Buffy turning up). And here's where it gets good - Spike moves out, gets a gang (possibly with one or two members of Angel's team), and he becomes what Angel was a few years ago. No funding, living in a dump somewhere, but fighting to rid the world of evil the best he can.

From Spike's perspective, Angel has been corrupted. From Angel's perspective Spike's a renegade and a trouble-maker. We see Angel making huge decisions, and usually the right ones, at W&H, BUT from Spike's perspective, Angel seems to be running the company just as Holland Manners / Lilah Morgan did.

The stories would be told equally from each perspective, and we would be rooting for both sides. Both characters have shown themselves to be uncompromisingly heroic, and that wouldn't get taken away from them. We see Angel struggling against insurmountable odds to do good at W&H, and we see Spike struggling against insurmountable odds to good on the streets. We root for each equally, and they're both right, yet they're in constant, often violent, conflict.

Fighting at cross purposes, both fighting for the same thing, both believing the other to be evil and tearing LA apart at the seams as they do so, with innocent people sometimes getting caught in the crossfire.

The potential to be clever and original, and emotionally very resonant with that storyline is phenomenal.

Eh? Eh?

 

[ECA]

pleh, just go and get the Great Teacher Onizuka boxset and laugh at how entertaining a series can be when its not designed for maximum target audience impact.

 

[Damini]

When I read this thread at first I was hoping for a detailed version of a Spike versus Angel fight, possibly with lots of oil and some tight shorts on.

Though disappointed, i do like your ideas.

 

[Durzel]

Hmmm... interesting idea, but wheres "teh evil" ?

Generic vampire/demon fodder, I've always thought, has just served as a sideline to aid character development or add ballast to a larger story (aka "big bad"). Having Spike and Angel individually fighting their own battles, both in the name of "good" sounds pretty dull to be honest. There's a lot to be said in the clarity of having a single entity (in previous seasons Holt, W&H, etc) which is a clear and defined enemy.

I think Spike and Angel will be at eachothers throats most of the time simply by virtue of their background, their association with Buffy, etc. I think that's enough of a dynamic for them for fight over. I can't see why Spike would actively hate Angel, aside from what he represents (i.e. Buffys true love, owns W&H offices, etc). I think Spike's ribbing of Angel will continue, and as actors they play off against eachother very well, so it'll be fun to see where that goes. But personally I don't think Spike hates Angel, envies - definitely, dislikes - probably.

Also, I think the whole Angel/Angelus thing has been done to death - having Spike as the sole good guy is appealing, but if it comes about through Angel having to "go bad" again, then I'd rather not watch.

It's difficult to predict where Joss can go with Angel and Spike since both have been bad to some degree - Angel through becoming Angelus every 5 minutes, and Spike through simply getting a soul much later - having either of them go completely bad again I think would probably be pretty hackneyed.

 

[Jonny_Darko]

There would still be big bads and other evils to fight, but Angel and Spike would be going about it in different ways, stepping on each other's toes and ending up fighting amongst themselves.

As for Spike hating Angel, the seeds are already there, all that needs to hapen is some event which Spike doesn't see the whole story behind, which seems to confirm to him that W&H's plan to corrupt Angel has worked.

 

[Durzel]

Yeah, but then hes just Angelus more or less then.. oldé

I'd much rather see Gunn go bad or something, especially with this new lawyer mojo hes workin'.. Not sure how that could be worked into a story though.

Thinking about it, there would be some logic in that.. i.e. W&H wanted Angel & gang under their roof so they would have easier access to corrupt/groom Gunn. Opens plenty of doors for Fred/Gunn "you've changed Gunn" conversations, etc.

Unlikely to happen I guess.

 

[Jonny_Darko]

Angel wouldn't be bad, and he wouldn't be Angelus. We know he still the same Angel, doing good. But Spike, who obviously wouldn't be in W&H at this point, only sees bits of what Angel's doing that make him appear to be bad. That's where the fun lies, they both think the other is wrong/evil, yet we know neither is.

 

[whipped]

Well, seeing as Gunn was the only one that went in the white room I've thought from the beginning of this series that Gunn is their target.

Having the law knowledge implant enforces my suspicions.

I'd love it if Gunn goes evil and kicks Angel and crew out in order to run W&H.

 

[Ch3tan]

Without reading too much, as I have not seen the last seasons on Angel or Buffy.

Spike and Angel are both great, Spike just beats Angel on comedy value with his "English" cursing.