An end to mezz warfare in the not too distant future ???

[Killgorde]

A change in 1.52 which may (or may not) alter the way the game is played:

======================================

Dark Age of Camelot

Version 1.52 Release Notes

Wednesday, August 7, 2002

======================================



SPELL NOTES

- In RvR only, area effect Mesmerization spells have been modified so that the duration effect of the mez spell is lessened the farther the player is from the center of the area of effect. The duration is 100% at the middle of the area, and it tails off to 50% duration at the edges. This does NOT change the way area effect spells work against monsters, only realm enemies (i.e. enemy players and enemy realm guards).

- We have alleviated some of the frustration of being mesmerized in combat by giving special "cure mez" spells to some casting classes. Judicious use of these spells will mean that you will be mezzed far less often than before.

"Cure Mez" Spells

We have taken an additional step to alleviate the effects of mesmerize - now there are "heal mez" spells in the game. In general, these spells have been given to those classes that cast the mez spells for their Realm. The class that gets the new "dispell" in each realm as part of their base line is generally the realm's primary mesmerizer: the Sorcerer, Healer, and Bard. The secondary mesmerizers in each realm will need to spec to get the dispell: Minstrel, Spiritmaster, and Mentalist. These spells should alleviate some of the problems with long term crowd control spells in RvR.

======================================

<sighs> Bit of a bugger we haven't got too many SM's in Midgard, though.

 

[Loth]

<sighs> Bit of a bugger we haven't got too many SM's in Midgard, though.

Nevermind, we don't have that many Sorcs in Albion either

 

[old.Mousah]

oh poor hibs, looks like they will be nerfed
you better start making fighters or your DOOMED!

 

[Subbiz]

perhaps we will see more and more healers playing active rvr?

they become more and more neccesary to be able to do any good at all in rvr..

 

[c0ngo]

Just means the end of Sorcerers, Healers, and Bards as CC in RvR (would say 2 Clerics as well but 1.51 already cnuts them).

Can't see any updates post 1.49 that seem 2 improve the game they just mean that the biggest zerg wins instead of the 1st 2 mez like it is atm so guess I'll start looking for other games soon.

 

[Killgorde]

Don't quite read it the same Congo. It does imply that the current "Who Mezzes 1st Wins" scenario does not necessarily guaranteed victory. Other patch info extending the life of melee situations:

===========================================

We have taken the following steps in this version to make the melee combat experience more fun and meaningful in RvR:

- Behind the scenes melee rules changes. We have changed two separate "under-the-hood" game mechanics to make melee combat more fun. One was to remove the level-based "to hit" modifier, and the other was to change the way the game calculates how many players are in combat with each other at once. These sound like small changes, but they will both let you hit more often (in the case of the first), and parry/block much more often (in the case of the second). The combination will mean that you will live longer, and thus, deal more damage.

- We have changed the armor tables in the game so that one damage type (crush) will no longer be the most powerful in the game.

The overall intention of these changes is not to focus on any one particular melee class - it was to look at the system as a whole and make changes where appropriate that will help all of them. Of course some of these changes spill over to other classes as well, but the overall net result of the changes should be longer RvR combats which means that those with the most hit points and best defense (i.e. melee classes) will live longer and be much more productive.

When we first announced we were looking into these problems, we thought we could simply reduce RvR damage by 35%. That proved not to be good for the game overall, so we decided to make tweaks and changes to the overall system to produce the same results as a straight damage reduction, but make it more strategic and fit within the already established rules of the game.

==============================================

Just nice to see Mythic making an effort to bring the melee classes more into the game and make it more fun for them.

Zerging is something that can't be catered for, however. But if you want to avoid them, avoid Emain where the confines of the zone leave you little freedom of movement.

 

[Loth]

Oh and as a caster, the new 'to-hit' modifier is going to be just great - not.

This means casters can now be more easily taken down by much lower level melee types, who may find it easier to get to the caster due to these mez changes.

As a Sorc, I think I'll be respeccing to a damage template as soon as respec is available

 

[c0ngo]

Originally posted by Killgorde
Just nice to see Mythic making an effort to bring the melee classes more into the game and make it more fun for them.

If I played a tank I'd agree with u but I don't
Got a lvl9 one with no armour/items/cash but but don't think that counts.

Oh and about Zerging DF is the place for it atm, mainly from Hibbs from what I've seen coming 2 the Alb Merchants. But it's better than in Emain, more places to hide/flank etc and the log/relog 2 get behind em method works pretty well 2, as does the watch them get agro and die method

I'd be happy if we stayed with 1.49 but we won't so I'll see how it goes.

 

[old.Finster]

mezmerizing quickly and efficiently and not breaking those mezzes are some of the few skill factors in this game. seriously, if theres no mez the lack of collision detection will make a simple target clothwearer/ stick do the trick.

so if there s no effective root/ mez and no protecting your own with physical blocking via collisioning it will all just spiral to a simple butchery.

Finster, rare spawn
<Nolby Pride>
considering quitting very much

 

[-Dreama-]

well this is just f*cking peachy. Now I am pissed. A sorc is a mezzer, not much else. I have shit DD dmg cuz I specced for mezz. Now they take away the only thing I'm good for? that is just BS. I could see them takeing away the power on my mezz if I had awsome DD like a wiz and good armor. but I'm not an over powered class, don't gimp me ffs. Looks like I'll be respeccing for dmg as well, if not just quitting the game. Gee, anyone wanna buy a soon to be gimped account?

 

[Loth]

So, the guys at the edge of the mez radius don't get full duration - the guys caught in the middle who do get full mez duration can probably just Purge it

Whoopee!

Looks like I'll soon be my Guild Powerleveller, but not much use in RvR

Thanks Mythic

 

[old.Galieran]

I am an 100 % offensive armsman, (polearms/thrust). I hit very slowly, but hard.
I do not see this as good news for me, since the it will boost non-100%-offensive tank types. I will most likely be parried/blocked and hit twice, before I try to hit again..
This only counts for tank vs tank warfare, and it seems that is what is coming up. As I see it the tank.types with the faster hitting will come out as the victor. At the moment my kinda tank is dependant on a minstrell ( speed) a cleric (for heal). In the future I will furthermore be dependant on a Shield&Sword tank to guard me in combat.

Please correct me, if you think I am wrong.(hope I am)

 

[-Wedge-]

This thread is kinda funny...

Before I start my nice little rant, I'll say that I do not agree with several changes Mythic made, but hey...

First, the AE mezz that is weakend at the outer edge's, common, thats something that should have been in the game... If it was, no one would complain...

Why is it that a Wizard gets a (huge I might add) damage reduction at the outer edges? It would make them too powerfull if it wasnt... Same goes for sorcs (or any AE mezz class)... (The outer edge is still somewhat of 30 seconds)

All this means that you have to use more strategy, e.g. get rid of the outer edges before killing the rest... But wait, OMG they put in a SINGLE target cure mezz...

Now I do not agree with this, it might work nicely... The class that can mezz is also the class that can 'cure' the mezz... Now again, simply a point of strategy, get rid of those classes before you get rid off the rest...

I'm sorry, I cant see why you all cry... Might be because I'm used to playing one of the classes that gets mezzed each and every time and no-one can do anything about it... Thats frustrating, play a class to level 44 to find out your not even a class they go after first, heck they might even just let you stand there while they move on because your not worth the effort to kill...

The 1.52 patch doesnt mean the end of mezz, just means its not as effective as it was... Making a body/mind sorc more intresting then a full-mind (or nearly full) sorc... (or what ever combo you choose)

 

[old.Nol]

HarGHharHAr

NOw y00 Di3 che4ting hibz0rz...y00 c4n7 M3zz me 0r my 4 mulli0n guildies againz0r...haRhArhAR!!! 34t pigz0rz p00!!!

Poodlep00z0rz - 5x season person
<the intelligent choice>

the depth of some peoples posts sometimes scares me...

 

[Kagato.]

You know, if any other class got themselves a brand new free spec line with a load of new responsibilities in a group situration, they'd be happy.

All the prime mezzing class now get the ability to counter each others mezzes making them much more essential to be in a group to counter the enemy mezzes and meaning you now have to use some tactics (i.e guard the anti-mezzer and keep him or her out of AOE). Whats more I could be wrong but I believe the anti mezz line is on a timer and single target.

For gods sake if the sorc's/minstrels don't want this new line of spells i'd gladly take it lol.

Personally i'd be over the moon at a new line and new responsibility to make me more useful.

And from a tanks perspective I can't wait, we have been the under dogs of rvr for to long, good for nothing but door bashing. Its only fair we should have a chance to get up close and personal with those paper-wearing pansies mezzing us, nuking us and mezzing us again.

Fair enough, mezzing tactics are the only tactics used in RvR at the moment, not because its the only usable tactics in RvR but simply because its the easiest and sure fire winner at the moment. Now we're just gonna have to think that bit harder, don't whine, face up to the challange and take a fresh look at what your class can do.

Heck we all have something to whine about here, even the tanks, considering that the new armour tables mean alot of us no longer have the damage advantage against our chosen enemies we originally spec'd for or at least its no longer a unique advantage.

Although I do disagree with the post concerning 100% offensive tanks, fair enough enemies will block/parry more in mass RvR, but so will you. And at the moment parry still doesn't work proply in rvr anyway (please fix this soon, pleeeeeease.).

To sum this up, this is a glass half empty/ glass half full situration, yes your mezz can be countered, but you can counter there mezz too and piss them off just as much as they might piss you off.

As for the Purge thing, sure a tank can spend 14 realm levels to buy it, heck I might do myself, but alot of tanks will be more tempted for the in-battle 100% instant heal which they can use in pve too and end up relying on clerics/anti-mezzes to keep them active.

 

[-Dreama-]

I think the point of my maddness here is that I can understand nerfing over powered classes. The cleric for example, I play one, and even I thought we were to bad ass, mezz smite heal cures buffs rezz, come on, clerics were way to good. But a sorc over powered? Hmmm, naaaah. Basically all we do is mezz, and maybe get 1 or 2 dd (shit ones I might add) off. Ok, there are those sorcs out there who can rack up the RP in no time...even mind specced...but really, in comparison to most classes we're not dmg dealers...so to nerf our one basic trait isn't a good thing. I mean ok, I can ae mezz 5-6 for 59 sec...want to know how long my mezz usually lasts? 5 maybe 10 seconds cuz someone always breaks it...I'm not crying cuz they are nerfing mezz, I just don't think nerfing at all is a good idea...

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by old.Finster
so if there s no effective root/ mez and no protecting your own with physical blocking via collisioning it will all just spiral to a simple butchery.

As it should be.

 

[Loth]

The mez nerf doesn't bother me too much - the ae duration thingy - as Sorcs will soon lose the mez wars anyway (like we ever had it won )

Patch 1.51 (IIRC) is when it gets really silly - INSTA RANGED AoE mez from the opposing realms.

Bard comes in at speed, hits the 'I WIN' button (this can be casted on the move, unlike Sorc mez which is a 3 second stand-still cast) and there you have it.

So rather than scaling mez down, they actually made it worse

 

[nicky-nook]

Bard comes in at speed, hits the 'I WIN' button (this can be casted on the move, unlike Sorc mez which is a 3 second stand-still cast) and there you have it.

Wrong cant see this happing much The insta AOE mezz the Bards get is on a very low Radius and so from what i have Read most Bards who have used the AoE insta use it for Defense mostly and still use there casting ( much longer AoE mezz ) as there main line of mezz also its on a 10 minute timer but dont get me wrong AoE insta is needed for Bards..

As for the Duration being at 50% at the Edges well thats ok with me as they will be mezzed for 30 seconds rather than one minute atm so they will probably be dead anyway.

Regards Nicky.

 

[Gwandyn]

Well as said before mezz is one of the few things that give the game some skill and not just the one with the biggest army zerges and wins. And now the hibbies will have it even harder to beat the albion forces (yes im an alb but i hate zerging).

And with the changes i demand a parry skill and 1.5 skill points for wizards...or atleast the ability to use plate .

 

[old.Leel]

Please don't complain about sorcs having their main trait nerfed. The same applies to the midgard healer. Except I don't see it as a nerf. I can actually see farther than my own nose:-P
I'm gonna be respeccing to full aug when respec comes, get the best attack speed buff, self damage buff and run buff, and get resist buffs, one of them is spirit resist which helps further against mez. Oh, and the aug line is being given a boost with a combo str/con buff too. I'm soo looking forward to a new way of playing my healer

 

[sorusi]

Well mythic is destroying the Sorc class, we wear cloth (die in 3 hits if we are luck, thats if we got bt on).

We get no insta mezz.

We get no chain.

We get no insta heals.

We get no ae stun, or insta ae stun.

We get no heals.

______________________________
Hey what do we get?

We get an yellowcon pet (great for PvE, but its crap in rvr since everything the nmy has to do is kill you with his sledge (2 - 3 swings and your checking the tileing in DF)

We get confuse. (one again great for PvE, but crap in rvr, they even changed it so it wont work on guards)

We get debuffs (these cost LOTS of power, and it takes LOTS of time to cast them all)

We get AE root if we specc 30 body or higher (this is usefull in RvR and in PvE)

We get an 2sec specc nuke (this is if you went for the 41body,34mind (166dmg) template or the 48body,24mind (210dmg) template, this is handy to have)

We get baseline lifetap 140dd/60% to hp (once again usefull to heal youself in RvR and PvE)

We get baseline single target mezz and root.

We get amnezia (great for PvE, does jack shit in RvE)

We get DEX/QUICK debuffs one in specc line one in baseline (2kinds, they stack)

We get STR/CON debuffs one in specc line one in baseline (2kinds, they stack)

We get FIRE/COLD/MATTER debuffs in body line.

We get self af buff (240af, while everyone else gets 250af - wtf? did mythic do a typo in the code?)

We get self bt. (as every other caster)

We get 10% absorb buff (as every other caster)

We get Quickcast (as every other caster)

We get an baseline DOT and one specc line (my baseline would take 1% hps of Nolbypride when i tested it on him, it was the best baseline dot + -30% dot resist debuff)

We get an Snare DD if we specc matter (range 1350/179 dmg)

We get an group speed buff +154% (great, reason why i didnt roll an wizard )

___________________________________________________

Ok, we get LOTS of spells and stuff.

But, if your here for the RvR how many of them are usefull?

My personal experience is:

Body dd (166dmg), AE mezz,AE root,Quickast,lifetap (140dmg)


I think these patches really suck for some reasons (oh yes ive played an tank and i hate being mezzed)

BUT once you have 3 classes in the game, that specialize in one thing (healers for exeption - they got their boring healing job )
you cant just screw them around like they have done, infact there is no point mezzing with purge + group purge + AE nerf.

I really think sorcs suffer most from this, we got cloth, some of us will be brave and try "save the day" with our mezzes, they will then be the target #1 and get chopped in 2 chopps (or sniped, those hunters/rangers love yummy sorcs)

The cure mezz is a joke, do you think anyone got the time to "cure mezz", i know the cloth wearing sorcs wont, they die first ALLWAYS.

Grouping in PvE for an sorc is a joke. Mythic has stated that your primary CC (crowd control), and when your in an group your task is to do so. There are some problems tho..

Senario 1 full group (you need baffing reds or purps for neat exp, or tanglers):

1. Group pulls.
2. Sorc finds his targets, start mezzing.
3. 4 reds approach.
4. Sorc either Single target mezz (ive found lower resist rate + you wont get aggro from 2 if they resist).

)here are senario A wich is single target mezz & senario B with ae mezz)

5A. Resited -> sorc qc (quickast) mezz again.
6A. It resisted? - sorc yells to the minstrel "stun!".
7A. Minstrel stuns (if not resisted) the sorc got 6 sec to cast 2 mezz attempts on it.
8A. Sorc tries to mezz the other mobs that are bashing the cleric (he got aggro from healing the tanks).
9A. Hopefully the job was done.

5B. Resisted 2 or more? -> sorc get aggroed, if the cleric is fast with the insta heal he might survive or if they got 6sec pbt.
6B. Cleric didnt have insta ready, and sorc died, minstrel starts mezzing.
7B. Group survives and kills the mob (if sorc had a pet it joins the battle vs the group )
8B. Everyone says how sorry they are blblalala, and the sorc just bah..

Ok this is reality for me, happens each day.

Sorc got some bright sides tho.

Were one of the best solo RvE classes in the game, we can solo high red, and with confuse i can solo my way thru DF (exeption for high purps/nameds that resist)

Sorc is suppose to be an support class - but were better off solo than in groups i call this an big nerf

What class is the sorc to be? - budget wizard with 40ish pet and run buff...

W/o mezz in rvr there will be chaos, but if they are going to nerf it like this they can atleast take away it from my specc lines and give me bolts or an neat ae dd, or stealth

I can't see why im suppose to wear chain while the healers wear their sweet chain, and bards reinforced. Nor why they got instas and i dont

Mezz isnt overpowered castable stun is. The AE mezz -> singletarget stun is way to overpowered. but AE mezz isnt, especially with purge, why the hell do you need more nerfs?

ps: this is not whine, bright side is that tanks will be buffed

Mythic wants to kill all the Sorcs

Respecc will be 50matter,20body, or 48body,24matter, DOTS + RA AE DOT + Snare DD (to bad the dot breaks the snare)

The mezz brings some skill to the game, its challenging to mezz, as an cloth user w/o the "i win kthx button"



NOW mythic give me that 2h sword and titanium armour + an chainsaw

Don't give me any shit from this you tanks - ive played one, so if you think mezz is overpowere go ahead and play an sorc - you will see how much you will lick emains grass

 

[Gahldir]

cheese, anyone?

 

[Loth]

Spot on Sorusi, maybe all Sorcs should go and roll Infils like everyone else is

 

[Karam_gruul]

they should just take out all mez/root/anything that slows anyone down in any way. should all be DD's and severe 133+ own4g3 with close combat weps.

 

[Dalby]

yes!!!
everybody is complaining, but i am not


finally, i might get a chance to get away

 

[old.LandShark]

This may reduce mezz-dominated RvR, but only because so many healers/sorcs will quit.
Or, if not quit, respec to body spec for a sorc, or..uh....wait, healers can't do anything except crowd control. (healing isn't exactly fun in itself

 

[Garnet]

Originally posted by Killgorde
A change in 1.52 which may (or may not) alter the way the game is played:

======================================

Dark Age of Camelot

Version 1.52 Release Notes

Wednesday, August 7, 2002

======================================



SPELL NOTES

- In RvR only, area effect Mesmerization spells have been modified so that the duration effect of the mez spell is lessened the farther the player is from the center of the area of effect. The duration is 100% at the middle of the area, and it tails off to 50% duration at the edges. This does NOT change the way area effect spells work against monsters, only realm enemies (i.e. enemy players and enemy realm guards).

- We have alleviated some of the frustration of being mesmerized in combat by giving special "cure mez" spells to some casting classes. Judicious use of these spells will mean that you will be mezzed far less often than before.

"Cure Mez" Spells

We have taken an additional step to alleviate the effects of mesmerize - now there are "heal mez" spells in the game. In general, these spells have been given to those classes that cast the mez spells for their Realm. The class that gets the new "dispell" in each realm as part of their base line is generally the realm's primary mesmerizer: the Sorcerer, Healer, and Bard. The secondary mesmerizers in each realm will need to spec to get the dispell: Minstrel, Spiritmaster, and Mentalist. These spells should alleviate some of the problems with long term crowd control spells in RvR.

======================================

<sighs> Bit of a bugger we haven't got too many SM's in Midgard, though.

Bah finally decided to nerf the midgard healer to its lowest lvl. Cheers Mystic or whoever u are u bunch of assholes.

 

[pitspawn]

Ok a couple of things, ive played a sorc and i deleted it lol. Sorc is about mezz and mezz alone. Mezz splash damage is not a good idea. If they are to put this in they should increase the base so that center does say 1min 30sec and the outter rim does only 45 seconds.

Castable cure mezz is a good idea, however with realm abilities purge and group purge there are too many ways of getting out of mezz/root/stun. So cure mezzes should be say long cast time and cost a lot of power, say 4 seconds. Or even if you are brought out of mezz maybe you have some disease, like mezz ilness you have slight nearsight and maybe a small dex+qui decrease (Both orientation things).

Someone spoke about aoe damage on wizards, yeah i dont think its enough at the outer edges but thats my opinion. The fade is 100-0% If it was 100-50% i would aoe a lot more than i do. Maybe when we get aoe root and gtaoe i will not be as fussed, but atm i am.

 

[old.Ebeneezer]

The new crowd controllers will be...

SHAMAN

AOE root