Americans kill UK Aid Worker

[Lamp]

muppets

BBC News - UK aid worker may have been killed by rescuers' grenade

 

[old.user4556]

"may"

 

[Ch3tan]

Hardly muppets Lamp, a rescue operation is hardly an easy thing, and comes with no gaurentees. I doubt they'd have risked it if they did not fear for her life already,

 

[Scouse]

Hardly muppets Lamp

I'd say wanging grenades at targets before you've confirmed the person you're trying to rescue is present is exactly the sort of thing you'd expect from Fozzie Bear:

/lob

wakka wakka wakka!

boom!

Oops

 

[old.user4556]

"Hostage down"

"Typing FS"

 

[rynnor]

I havent seen the details - was it a stun grenade?

 

[Aada]

I'd say wanging grenades at targets before you've confirmed the person you're trying to rescue is present is exactly the sort of thing you'd expect from Fozzie Bear:

/lob

wakka wakka wakka!

boom!

Oops

Lets break a rescue operation down for you because you clearly think its an easy task.

First they have to be inserted either it was a silent insertion or loud ie Black Hawks literally hovering outside while the guys rope down.

If it was a silent insertion then they would have had to take out the guards in complete slience if not they are in trouble from the go.

Then they have to actually get into the hostage building at this point stealth is probably broken and your now talking CQB against a lot of Taliban they probably have some sad arsehole with a gun pointing at her head right now.

Thats the basic version and btw all this is probably happening very fast.

So imo show some fucking respect for these guys they were against the fucking shit from the moment the mission was a go they tried and unfortunatly the poor woman died.

The media don't help either to them its a great story.

 

[Krazeh]

I havent seen the details - was it a stun grenade?

The initial claim was that she was killed by a Afghan suicide vest which was apparently determined by looking at surveillance footage so there must have been some element of an explosion which to me would suggest a frag grenade. The BBC article also claims that frag grenades are usually taken by US Special Forces during hostage rescue operations.

Lets break a rescue operation down for you because you clearly think its an easy task.

First they have to be inserted either it was a silent insertion or loud ie Black Hawks literally hovering outside while the guys rope down.

If it was a silent insertion then they would have had to take out the guards in complete slience if not they are in trouble from the go.

Then they have to actually get into the hostage building at this point stealth is probably broken and your now talking CQB against a lot of Taliban they probably have some sad arsehole with a gun pointing at her head right now.

Thats the basic version and btw all this is probably happening very fast.

So imo show some fucking respect for these guys they were against the fucking shit from the moment the mission was a go they tried and unfortunatly the poor woman died.

The media don't help either to them its a great story.

I'm sorry but how does any of that change the fact that they potentially threw an explosive device into the close proximity of a hostage they were trying to rescuse? These people train for this very sort of thing so things happening quickly or there being a lot of shooting going on doesn't really cut it as an excuse for "oh sorry, we seem to have blown up the hostage".

 

[rynnor]

I dont think the guys trying to save her can be criticised for failing - they risked their own lives to attack a camp of armed fanatics to save an innocent hostage.

I imagine the whole team is gutted but even a failure in such an action sends a message to the opposition that they cant take hostages with impunity.

 

[Ch3tan]

they didn't fail completely, they saved the local aid workers taken hostage with her did they not?

 

[Tom]

I didn't know you could get armchair-shaped saddles for high horses.

 

[Chilly]

fucking daily mail headline. this is probably the dream special forces mission, I doubt they fucked it up on purpose.

 

[Scouse]

they didn't fail completely, they saved the local aid workers taken hostage with her did they not?

Thought they'd already been let go and the Taliban were willing to negotiate for the hostage...

 

[Ch3tan]

Thought they'd already been let go and the Taliban were willing to negotiate for the hostage...

Yeah just read that they were released last week, thought the initial stories said they had been rescued.

 

[Embattle]

fucking daily mail headline. this is probably the dream special forces mission, I doubt they fucked it up on purpose.

Seems to be very common around here lately

 

[Marc]

fucking daily mail headline. this is probably the dream special forces mission, I doubt they fucked it up on purpose.

if it had been the english, everyone on here would be like, "ohh unlucky lads", but as its the americans its a complete fuck up

 

[Scouse]

Hardly surprising given the Americans have a reputation for friendly fire incidents.

The strange thing about this is how much support there is on these boards for a "rescue" team that not only failed but killed their target, with a weapon that's clearly inappropriate for use when you're unsure of who you're aiming it at.

Turns out she was safer with the Mujahadeen eh?

 

[Ch3tan]

Hardly surprising given the Americans have a reputation for friendly fire incidents.

The strange thing about this is how much support there is on these boards for a "rescue" team that not only failed but killed their target, with a weapon that's clearly inappropriate for use when you're unsure of who you're aiming it at.

Turns out she was safer with the Mujahadeen eh?

Armchair soldier.

 

[Krazeh]

Hardly surprising given the Americans have a reputation for friendly fire incidents.

The strange thing about this is how much support there is on these boards for a "rescue" team that not only failed but killed their target, with a weapon that's clearly inappropriate for use when you're unsure of who you're aiming it at.

 

[Scouse]

Armchair soldier.

Nah. Just unwilling to consider the use of grenades in a rescue situation when you can't see your target as anything other than retarded.

If they'd had gone in there and shot her in a crossfire then I'd feel a whole lot different about it.

 

[Jiggs]

I thought they used sting grenades for this sort of thing.

 

[dysfunction]

No they use fragmentation grenades.

But still, it is very easy to sit in a comfy surrounding and point fingers at soldiers in Afghanistan and say they have done wrong...


A more detailed account of what happened:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/13/linda-norgrove-us-commando-disciplinary

It was a big mistake by the soldier concerned...

 

[old.Tohtori]

*walks in*



Ah hell no.

*leaves thread alone*

 

[Scouse]

No they use fragmentation grenades.

But still, it is very easy to sit in a comfy surrounding and point fingers at soldiers in Afghanistan and say they have done wrong...


A more detailed account of what happened:

Linda Norgrove: US navy Seal faces disciplinary action over grenade death | World news | The Guardian

It was a big mistake by the soldier concerned...

Your post is full of inconsistencies Dys.

You at first eulogise that it's a bit shit of us to point fingers and say "wrong" at the soldiers but seconds later admit it was a "big mistake" by the soldier.


The link you posted has done nothing but confirm my preconceptions. The fuckhead gung-ho tossboy yanks killed the hostage out of carelessness. The one responsible then didn't fess up to it when it was obviously easy enough to spot from the video stream and now he's being disciplined for it.

Cut. And. Dried. Yankfault.

Again

 

[dysfunction]

It is not inconsistent. He made a mistake in the heat of an attack. he didn't see the hostage....

I still stand by my first point is you can't sit at home and judge this soldier for making this mistake.

He is being disciplined not for killing the hostage but because he didn't say he made a mistake straight away!

 

[Marc]

It is not inconsistent. He made a mistake in the heat of an attack. he didn't see the hostage....

I still stand by my first point is you can't sit at home and judge this soldier for making this mistake.

He is being disciplined not for killing the hostage but because he didn't say he made a mistake straight away!

Yes you can, if your name is Scouse who has full experience of combat situations from the safety of his armchair.

Maybe we should get Jaharal to come in here and tell him to gtfo

 

[DaGaffer]

It is not inconsistent. He made a mistake in the heat of an attack. he didn't see the hostage....

I still stand by my first point is you can't sit at home and judge this soldier for making this mistake.

He is being disciplined not for killing the hostage but because he didn't say he made a mistake straight away!

According to the report, they were issued with frag grenades to give them tactical flexibility in case of resistance going to and from the rescue; using one in the rescue smacks of schoolboy error, especially as the guy is supposed to be an elite soldier. And since the guy tried to avoid responsibility, I'd say he knows that too.

 

[Raven]

He probably plays too much Call of Duty and just lobs them as soon as the chopper lands.

 

[Bodhi]

Damn, my PC must have set itself to U.S English again.

I just tried to save a document I was working on, yet I've ended up blowing it up.

 

[old.user4556]

ohhh that's cringy