AMD vs. INTEL

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adams901

Guest
AMD Vs INTEL

Hi,

I know that they both have their fanboys and questions like this usually end up with a small war but here goes.

AMD used to be better than Intel when it came to Price Vs Performance, but with the release of the 800MHz FSB Intel chips has this changed?.

What CPU will give the best gaming performance, the XP3200+ or P4 3.0GHz, they both cost about the same (too much) and most of the reviews show the Intel as leading the benchmark tests, and many claim that AMDs numbering system is now usless due to Intels FSB increase.

Normally I buy AMD as I have never had a problem with them, but reviews seem to show intel are now beating AMD by considerable amounts and so I have to seriously consider them when I upgrade.

I have also read that the intel 3.0GHz chip can be overclocked better than the XP3200+.

Any suggestions or thoughts on this?.
 
J

Jonty

Guest
Hi adams901

As you rightly say, questions like this often spark off little riots between the two factions, but at present, being objective as I can be, I believe the situation is like this . . .

Both companies produce excellent kit, and you wouldn't be disappointed buying from either. At the lower end of the market, AMD are currently strong. Their chips are very cheap, and usually undercut Intel's Pentium 4 chips. So, when you can get a 2500+ Barton CPU for under £70, you know you've got a good buy. The introduction of Thornton CPUs by AMD (a hybrid Thunderbird and Barton chip) should see this budget/mainstream sector slant even further in AMD's favour.

However, at the top end of the market, AMD's pricing curve, as I've said before, becomes a pricing cliff, and suddenly the value for money incentive for buying AMD is thrown out of the window. And, it has to be said, at the top end of the market AMD really are struggling. Intel's revision C Pentium 4 CPUs (with 800Mhz FSB and hyper-threading support) really are brilliant performers, and as you rightly say, AMD's numbering convention is thrown completely out of the window. For example, [H]ard|OCP recently found that a 2.4Ghz Pentium 4C could perform close to a 3000+ Barton. Add to this the fact that Intel's CPUs are fabulous overclockers, and it's easy to see why people serious about their computing always go for Intel.

Of course it's dangerous to consider the CPUs in isolation, as things like motherboards and RAM use to come into consideration. However, RAMBUS RAM is no longer required to run Pentium 4 CPUs, and the quality of motherboards for both company's CPUs are excellent. Arguably nVidia's nForce motherboards represent the best all-in-one solution, but with ATi and others entering the market, things should balance out nicely.

So, in conclusion, both company's CPUs are brilliant, but I'd probably say go with Intel if you're going to purchase a high end processor. Whilst AMD's chips at the lower end of the market are great value for money, the further up the product line you go, the stronger Intel's position becomes. Add to this the ongoing financial crisis AMD are facing and Intel's kit becomes even more desirable.

Kind Regards

Jonty

P.S. A P4C 3Ghz is usually alarming close to a 3200+ Barton, and that's without overclocking it!
 
S

Sibanac

Guest
well if you look at the new top of the line prices amd and intel are about the same.

But lower down a 2.4 800 fsb intel will cost about the same as a 2800 xp

motherboards for intel tend to be abit more pricy aswell (havent looked at it last few months could have changed now)

bah was gonne type some more but, Jonty said it already

basicly, highend intel seems the better option atm, mid range amd still beats intel
 
S

Sibanac

Guest
btw if you dont need a new computer despratly, i would wait a few months and see how the clawhamer (64bit) thing plays out
 
A

adams901

Guest
Cheers, I dont really "need" an upgrade, the performance of Half Life 2 on my system will tell me if Im upgrading or not :).
 
J

Jonty

Guest
Originally posted by adams901
Cheers, I dont really "need" an upgrade, the performance of Half Life 2 on my system will tell me if Im upgrading or not :)
Click to expand...
I believe performance in Half-Life 2 should be fairly good for most people. As has been much touted, the Source engine is fully scalable across a wide range of system specifications (even systems which aren't yet available). However, even beyond that, the engine is dynamically scalable during the game itself. Thus, for example, if you suddenly enter a large fire fight and the load on your system increases, the engine should in theory seemlessly tone down model details and special effects and then adjust them back once the strain has decreased. Clever stuff, in theory :)

Kind Regards
 
S

Sibanac

Guest
oh while we are here (read hijack)

anyone know if the barton cpu's run on kt400 chipsets ? more specificly asus av8x rev b (333fsb enabled version). looked at the asus site but they dont list the bartons in any cpu list
 
S

Sibanac

Guest
I got the A7V8X, your links are to the A7V8X-X version, there isnt much difrence between the boards tho, some of the A7V8X boards only support 266FSB but i do have a 333FSB version

I just found this handy page.
Am i right thinking that the 'Athlon XP 2500+(333 MHZ FSB)(Model 10)' is indeed the barton

and btw nerf 10 difrent names for cpu's that are all named the same (well you know what i mean :) )
 
J

Jonty

Guest
Ah, my apologies Sibanac :) As to your question, yes, I'm virtually certain the above 2500+ description is in reference to the Barton CPU, for as far as I know, no Thoroughbred CPUs were ever made at that speed.

Kind Regards
 
S

Sibanac

Guest
hmm still wondering what they mean by model 10 and model 8 for example they have a 2800+ model 8 and model 10 in that list.
Afaik then never made a 2500xp except for the barton and there is only a model 10 +2500xp in that list.
the highest model 8 is the +2800 xp afaik the last thoroughbred AFAIK is the 2800 (google seems think the same ;) )

So that leads me to think model 10 is the barton and model
hmm my head hurts now
 
E

Embattle

Guest
Generally until the 3200+ drops in price then it isn't worth it, although it depends on what you currently have on whether as a total package it what would cost more. The 800Mhz FSB isn't as good as many would believe, at least thats what most of the benchmarks have shown.
 
T

throdgrain

Guest
Now I have a mobo that will handle it, I can see me buying a xp3200 in the not too near future :) The price should have come down a bit by then as well .

Oh , and yes, Im sure the xp2500 is a barton .
 
A

adams901

Guest
All the benchmarks I have seen (nexus.net, tomshardware.com, and a few others) show that the Intel chip beat AMD by as much as 90FPS on certain 3D gaming tests.

I like AMD and have avoided Intel like the plague (bad experience when the P3 450MHz first come out), but it looks like it may be time to forgive them, reasons stated below...

1) The XP3200 is unable to compete with the 3.2GHz 800 FSB
2) It struggles to keep up with the 3.0GHz 800FSB
3) XP3200+ is more expensive than the 3.0GHz 800FSB (by as much as £60)
4) I have heard that you can over clock the 3 gig chip by as much 500MHz and some times more, this is without additional cooling
5) The XP3200 has apparently been pushed as far as it can go by AMD and you will be lucky to get more that 100MHz extra out of it.

I was planning to get the asus A7N8X board but now after looking at reviews for the 2 CPUs I am at a loose end.
 
J

Jonty

Guest
Originally posted by adams901
1) The XP3200 is unable to compete with the 3.2GHz 800 FSB
2) It struggles to keep up with the 3.0GHz 800FSB
3) XP3200+ is more expensive than the 3.0GHz 800FSB (by as much as £60)
4) I have heard that you can over clock the 3 gig chip by as much 500MHz and some times more, this is without additional cooling
5) The XP3200 has apparently been pushed as far as it can go by AMD and you will be lucky to get more that 100MHz extra out of it.
Click to expand...
hehe, my two pennies worth . . .
  1. Very true indeed, but the price of the current P4C 3.2Ghz is really quite insane :D
  2. If you mean the 3200+, then again you (and the reviewers above!) are very much right, the 3200+ isn't as fast as it really should be. It cannot even distance itself too much from a P4C 3Ghz.
  3. Not sure about the prices, but I'll trust you :D
  4. I'm not sure about the exact amounts, but Intel's CPUs have brilliant overclocking potential, and with the right cooling they can be pushed even further.
  5. Again, I'm not too sure of the specifics, but it is true that AMD's current architecture has been exploited to almost it's full potential. That's not to say that AMD's chips aren't any good, merely that it's time for a change, and that change is coming later this year.
Anyway, I could have just said 'I agree', but I thought I'd ramble on as per usual :D Don't get me wrong, AMD's chips are great, and I've bought them myself and been extremely happy with them, but if money isn't too much a concern, then I'd personally choose Intel at this moment in time.

Kind Regards
 
A

adams901

Guest
Aria sell the P4C 3gig chip £40 cheaper than the XP3200, but I guess that is countered by the more expensive Intel Motherboard.

I know AMD usually catches up at higher screen resolutions, what I really need is to see a benchmark for the XP3200 and the Intel P4C 3GHz running at 1600x1200, but they seem to be hard to come by.

Guess I have a couple of months to think about this and save my pennies, at present I can set up The Intel or AMD system for the same price (the CPU, Motherboard, and Memory), this is what's making it so hard.

Anyway, thanks for the input guys :).
 
W

Wij

Guest
i can outcalculate them with an abacus and an infinite number of quantum monkeys

:mad:
 
A

adams901

Guest
are you cheaper than either of them, and will you fit in my case?

umm that sounds a bit dodgy.
 
U

Ulysses777

Guest
Another thing you can consider is that by the time HL2 is out, the Athlon 64 should also be out by then, so you can see if it's any good.
 
J

Jonty

Guest
Originally posted by adams901
I know AMD usually catches up at higher screen resolutions, what I really need is to see a benchmark for the XP3200 and the Intel P4C 3GHz running at 1600x1200, but they seem to be hard to come by.
Click to expand...
Hello again :)

To be honest, at 1600x1200 and other resolutions, the performance difference is usually minor (you'd only ever notice a difference if you were benchmarking), and at very high resolutions the graphics card and other system components start to limit matters, so gauging what the processor is truly capable of can be somewhat of a minefield. Nevertheless, you may wish to check out the FiringSquad's Athlon 3200+ review (AMD wins some tests, Intel others, but be careful not to confuse the overclocked 3200+ results with the standard 3200+) and the Pentium 4C 3.2Ghz review (in which Intel perform very strongly, although again the difference in real terms is probably unnoticable unless benchmarking, and again, becareful to watch out for the overclocked results).

These reviews aren't meant to be wholly conclusive, other sites may have marginally different results, but they are pretty much indicative of the way things are.

Kind Regards

Jonty

P.S. As Ulysses777 rightly says, if you're going to wait, then come later this year 64bit chips will be out thus lowering the prices of today's high end kit; plus the P4C 3.2Ghz chip is the last of its kind, so it won't be instantly outdated.
 
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Sawtooth

Guest
I wouldnt get things out of perspective wrt 1/2 life. I think anything > 2GHz will play reasonably well with a half decent graphics card. On the other hand I did just upgrade to the Barton xp3000 which Ive managed to clock up to a xp3200 easily with a bit of cooling (water cooled)...lol so I'm a fine one to talk really. I just like fiddling with the bloody thing.

As far as MoBos go for Barton AMD I went with the Chaintech Zenith. Not a bad board but the onboard sound is a bit crap. Still it is one hell of a fast Mo Bo. With the latest Bios you can take it up to 400MHz FSB. I'm eagerly awaiting 1/2 life to test all this new kit out on.
 
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Slider_

Guest
Hmmmm

Sorry to go off subject slightly but this thread has reminded me of a small problem i am going to face soon i built my new pc in december with the following mb cpu spec:
Chaintech apogee 7vjl deluxe 400kt
AMD athlon 2000xp cpu
Now on the box it said 333 fsb and indeed it has selectors for 100,133 and 166 on the board BUT a "a freind who knows" said he had read that the early kt 400 boards were unstable running on the 333 fsb and as i brought it with the intention of getting maybe upto a 3000 xp cpu at some point im wondering if this board will run it o.k any ideas guys? ive looked at chaintechs site etc with no luck.
Also will the 64bit chips be compatiable with current operating systems?
 
J

Jonty

Guest
Hi CiASlider

I'll check about the stability of the boards, but if there were any serious problems then they should fall within the warranty, hence entitling you to return the product. That said, it could have all been fixed with a simple BIOS update. Anyway, I'll have a search and get back to you.

As for 64bit CPUs, yes they will work with current 32bit operating systems and 32bit programs. Obviously such programs won't exploit the CPUs to the fullest potential, but it should all 'just work.' That said, you should be aware that 64bit CPUs use different architecture, so they can't be just added to existing motherboards (so new CPU will mean new motherboard too).

Kind Regards
 
S

Sibanac

Guest
December inst soon in computer terms,
the 64 bits should be out in september, the new nvidia and ati gfx cards will probly be out by then aswell,
chances are the 400mhz fsb athlon boards will have hit the street aswell
(amd could push the barton to 400Mhz fsb as orignaly intended, but there arnt any mobos made for it atm)
The Nforce 3 boards (dual DDR) common place aswell

considering the above factors the 3200xp will have droped in price alot by then
 
T

Testin da Cable

Guest
opterthingy launch date leaked heh. price will be > $794 in strips of 1k. I think I'll just get a 3GHz pVI ta. the urge to sell my system and upgrade is here again in spades. After all, it's over two months old!
 
A

adams901

Guest
I'm gonna go with intel and get an asus P4P800 Motherboard, the thing that finally made my mind up for me was the fact that the motherboard will support the new prescott chip when its released. The AMD board wont support the next AMD CPU release.
 
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Slider_

Guest
M/B

Cheers m8 will do i mailed chaintech tech support in the end and theyve sent me an updated bios they reckon will support up to the 3000xp. second time ive had to do it tho thats another longer story :p
 
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Ulysses777

Guest
Originally posted by Testin da Cable
opterthingy launch date leaked heh. price will be > $794 in strips of 1k. I think I'll just get a 3GHz pVI ta. the urge to sell my system and upgrade is here again in spades. After all, it's over two months old!
Click to expand...

We're talking about the Athlon 64, the Opteron is a server CPU with 1MB L2 cache, it's not exactly comparable with a standard P4 :p
 
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