AMD Athlon 64 3000+

[old.user4556]

http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1937

Can buy 'em from Overclockers for £175, pretty darn good.

G

 

[Clown]

What's so good about the 64 thing?

 

[Jonty]

What's so good about the 64 thing?

hehe, at the moment, not a lot. According to AMD figures, a 64-bit processor will perform roughly 10% faster than a similarly clocked 32-bit processor (what most of us currently use).

Other than that, you really have to wait until 64-bit environments and applications are produced before any real advantages can be seen (and even then, if you're being cynical, there's no 'killer' reason to upgrade). A 64-bit version of Windows is in the pipeline, but has been delayed, as are some special edition games like 64-bit versions of Unreal.

However, critics point out the following problems which, thus far, have somewhat overshadowed AMD's efforts:

• Launch price of 64-bit CPUs and motherboards.
• Lack of 64-bit applications and environments.
• 64-bit motherboards are in their infancy and as such not as refined as, say, the nForce2 stalwarts.
• The performance gain in 32-bit applications is good, but not collosal.
• Doubt exists as to whether AMD can produce high-clocked 64-bit CPUs with their current design.

Don't get me wrong, we'll all no doubt wind up using 64-bit technology at some point in the future, but at the moment the market is still in its infancy. Although Intel have been criticised for the delay in getting their 64-bit processor ready, they may actually be in the best position, as by the time they release their CPUs, 64-bit-ready software may be more readily available and the associated hardware will be in a stabler form. Furthermore, with the new BTX form factor, PCI Express graphics and much more all coming next year, many are holding off purchasing major upgrades.

Anyway, I guess it's easy to criticse. As Big G points out, the 3000+ may well fill a niche market thanks to its price, helping to get more people onboard the 64-bit bandwagon, which is a good thing. [H]ard|OCP have an interesting article on the new 3000+ CPU, together with some opinions as to the future.

Kind Regards

 

[old.user4556]

What's so good about the 64 thing?

Good because a) it's £5 dearer than a 3200+ barton (which i've just bought ) and b) proves to be a good gaming chip (in a nutshell without going to get pages of stats).

G

 

[breal]

I picked up a Barton 2500+ which overclocks to 3200+ speed (200x11) straight out the box, saved myself about £75 in the process .

I think in a couple of years 64bit chips will be the norm, however ATM they are overpriced and there is little software written to take advantage of them. That will change in due course, but I would hold off buying one just now.

 

[old.user4556]

I picked up a Barton 2500+ which overclocks to 3200+ speed (200x11) straight out the box, saved myself about £75 in the process .

I think in a couple of years 64bit chips will be the norm, however ATM they are overpriced and there is little software written to take advantage of them. That will change in due course, but I would hold off buying one just now.

I was thinking about doing the same, but decided against it because I just wanted a 3200+ without the hastle of extra cooling (im into silent, discrete PCs) but there is overclocking potential in the 3200+ (speeds of 2.4/2.5 GHz I read) without hooj cooling systems.

Edit: I saw this http://www.aoaforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18202&page=2&pp=20 - an overclock from stock 2.2 GHz to 3 GHz with watercooling. Madness

G

 

[SawTooTH]

hehe, at the moment, not a lot. According to AMD figures, a 64-bit processor will perform roughly 10% faster than a similarly clocked 32-bit processor (what most of us currently use).

Other than that, you really have to wait until 64-bit environments and applications are produced before any real advantages can be seen (and even then, if you're being cynical, there's no 'killer' reason to upgrade). A 64-bit version of Windows is in the pipeline, but has been delayed, as are some special edition games like 64-bit versions of Unreal.

However, critics point out the following problems which, thus far, have somewhat overshadowed AMD's efforts:

• Launch price of 64-bit CPUs and motherboards.
• Lack of 64-bit applications and environments.
• 64-bit motherboards are in their infancy and as such not as refined as, say, the nForce2 stalwarts.
• The performance gain in 32-bit applications is good, but not collosal.
• Doubt exists as to whether AMD can produce high-clocked 64-bit CPUs with their current design.

Don't get me wrong, we'll all no doubt wind up using 64-bit technology at some point in the future, but at the moment the market is still in its infancy. Although Intel have been criticised for the delay in getting their 64-bit processor ready, they may actually be in the best position, as by the time they release their CPUs, 64-bit-ready software may be more readily available and the associated hardware will be in a stabler form. Furthermore, with the new BTX form factor, PCI Express graphics and much more all coming next year, many are holding off purchasing major upgrades.

Anyway, I guess it's easy to criticse. As Big G points out, the 3000+ may well fill a niche market thanks to its price, helping to get more people onboard the 64-bit bandwagon, which is a good thing. [H]ard|OCP have an interesting article on the new 3000+ CPU, together with some opinions as to the future.

Kind Regards

I agree with what he said, after all its Jonty.
Also there doesn't really seem much advantage at present of going that way till longhorn is released, being a true 64bit OS.

 

[old.user4556]

I was only pointing out you could get slightly more performance for the same money as a Barton 3200+ since they've slashed the price of the A64 3000+, nothing else.

G

 

[SawTooTH]

I was only pointing out you could get slightly more performance for the same money as a Barton 3200+ since they've slashed the price of the A64 3000+, nothing else.

G

Tis true except you have to factor buying a new MoBo into that as well.

 

[Xavier]

At the moment it's best to consider the Athlon64 as a more efficient K7 core with integrated memory controller, which in current real world terms is all it really boils down to. The 'extra 32 bits' aren't utilised by any currently available OS or software in any tangible way... the performance gain at the given frequencies is all down to the hypertransport links and saved latency in the new architecture/on-die memory controller - something Intel almost failed to catch, even with their Extreme Edition P4.

That said, I'm not criticising - they're worth a serious peek, I ditched my P4 3.2Ghz recently after a PSU failure meant I had to rebuild my system - for the first time since my K6-III 450 I decided to ditch the intel and used it as an excuse to build myself a box around the A64 FX-51 and ASUS SK8N, and aside from a quirky stability issue which appears to be down to memory it's 't3h l33t'.

 

[Xavier]

Tis true except you have to factor buying a new MoBo into that as well.

Yes, but with these new board when AMD introduce a new FSB / memory speed support you won't necessarily need a new board to cope, the bus speed is governed on-CPU and as long as the relevant memory uses the same slot design it will 'just work' - allegedly

That said, when AMD move to a 939-pin design (and lose the need for registered memories on the Athlon64 FX chips, you will have to swapp0r board to use the chips, so it's not quite time for the 'frequent upgraders' to leap in unless money >>> sense.

 

[Xavier]

I agree with what he said, after all its Jonty.
Also there doesn't really seem much advantage at present of going that way till longhorn is released, being a true 64bit OS.

2005/'06 then? Even Intel have hinted that they should have silicon before that

 

[old.user4556]

Tis true except you have to factor buying a new MoBo into that as well.

For someone like me who had to buy a new mobo anyway, it might have made a sensible choice to buy an A64 board and A64 3000+.

Instead I bought an Asus AN7 and the aformentioned cpu. By god, the AN7 is a superb board.

G

 

[breal]

I was thinking about doing the same, but decided against it because I just wanted a 3200+ without the hastle of extra cooling (im into silent, discrete PCs) but there is overclocking potential in the 3200+ (speeds of 2.4/2.5 GHz I read) without hooj cooling systems.

Edit: I saw this http://www.aoaforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18202&page=2&pp=20 - an overclock from stock 2.2 GHz to 3 GHz with watercooling. Madness

G

My systems running pretty cool (was 45oC with stock AMD cooler), now running 38-41oC with Aero 7 Lite- which on its lowest setting is quiet. Actually the fan on my GeForce makes more noise than anything else, lucky im upgrading that soon I guess!

 

[Xavier]

I was only pointing out you could get slightly more performance for the same money as a Barton 3200+ since they've slashed the price of the A64 3000+, nothing else.

G

It's not just price but also cache which has seen a 'slashing' with the arriveal of these chips... if you check over at HardOCP or AnandTech these 3000+ CPUs which have appeared unannounced in the channel currently only have half the on-chip memories of the original Athlon64 -512kb as opposed to 1Mb L2, as per the 'Newcastle' spec. Running at the same speed but with less cache means more use of the memory bus, which while far quicker with the on-die controller still means a significant performance hit.

They make for a nice low-end offering in the A64 family, but if you're going to make the leap to an Athlon64/754-pin system and experience the benefits of the new memory interface you're going to want the 3200+ and all that it brings at a minimum.

 

[Xavier]

I was thinking about doing the same, but decided against it because I just wanted a 3200+ without the hastle of extra cooling (im into silent, discrete PCs) but there is overclocking potential in the 3200+ (speeds of 2.4/2.5 GHz I read) without hooj cooling systems.

Edit: I saw this http://www.aoaforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18202&page=2&pp=20 - an overclock from stock 2.2 GHz to 3 GHz with watercooling. Madness

G

When you consider the fact they come with an unlocked multiplier as standard on the Athlon64 FX family, a 36% overclock is only a matter of hefty cooling and turning the core voltage up... no mean feat...

Mind you, Intels Extreme Edition processors had a problem giving an extra 400Mhz, or 13% when we last tinkered with them

 

[old.user4556]

It's not just price but also cache which has seen a 'slashing' with the arriveal of these chips... if you check over at HardOCP or AnandTech these 3000+ CPUs which have appeared unannounced in the channel currently only have half the on-chip memories of the original Athlon64 -512kb as opposed to 1Mb L2, as per the 'Newcastle' spec. Running at the same speed but with less cache means more use of the memory bus, which while far quicker with the on-die controller still means a significant performance hit.

They make for a nice low-end offering in the A64 family, but if you're going to make the leap to an Athlon64/754-pin system and experience the benefits of the new memory interface you're going to want the 3200+ and all that it brings at a minimum.

Cheers, was well aware of the 512k Cache (effectively making it a failed 3200+ / 3200+ with half the cache).

G

 

[old.user4556]

When you consider the fact they come with an unlocked multiplier as standard on the Athlon64 FX family, a 36% overclock is only a matter of hefty cooling and turning the core voltage up... no mean feat...

Mind you, Intels Extreme Edition processors had a problem giving an extra 400Mhz, or 13% when we last tinkered with them

Could have sworn that article was talking about a barton and not an athlon64 though?

 

[Xavier]

Could have sworn that article was talking about a barton and not an athlon64 though?

Oopsie, heh, looks like i was on autofire with the reply button a bunch of lunatics recently got the 2.2Ghz Athlon64 FX 51 up to 3Ghz too.

 

[old.user4556]

Oopsie, heh, looks like i was on autofire with the reply button a bunch of lunatics recently got the 2.2Ghz Athlon64 FX 51 up to 3Ghz too.

Ah, very impressive. I saw on tomshardware.com (guh.. 'i-love-intel-and-nvidia-hardware.com') the subzero cooling on the FX51, clocking it to 2.8 GHz. Incredible performance.

G