Am I missing the point????

[old.mathus 2]

What follows in this forum, may offend some players, if so flame away (or what ever u call it), but all I ask is u read it and comment..

I fear that this game, maybe our realm and server, is turning into a bitter, "click" of a few self-important players, who spend a vast about of time being offensive to lower players, and those that they feel arent as "good, ubber, or whatever sad little word is used", as them

reading the RvR forum is a sad tale, of players moaning about players pulling guards and not listening to them..LOL..Now i do understand that with your level comes experiance in the game etc and that to fully get the most out of the game (RvR it particular) "newer" players can listen to older players...However , there is a BIG however..its attitude

Example: a player of lvl 21 is entering emain for the first time, is at the Alb wall asking what to do, LFG etc...then a LvL 50 minst turns around and /yell what are u doing here, go away people like u make lagg, u are no use". Oh dear, oh dear me..

LvL 21 meets up with some friends, goes on the run for some hibs/mids and yep, pulls the guards..total carnage follows...Now who is to blame? the lvl 21? I dont think so, the LvL 50, yes. Think about it, a little coaching and helping explain what happens or maybe even invited him to her group, would have made the whole experiance a lot better..for the LvL 21 hewould learn about RvR etc...the guards would not have been pulled and Albion might start to work together...lol

there are so many examples of this, I tire of "LOL" at them.

Now I, along with a vast number of people, payed for this game and pay for the subscription, so I want to enjoy it, not feel like I am some sort of 2nd class player as I dont live, breath DAOC.

I have given up on RvR as it has turned into a number of "clicks" doing there own thing (can uderstand, to a certain degree, as they want to enjoy the game) yet using this forum to vent their spleen (aka Roy keane) at other players "n00bness", yet dont help as they are to "ubber" to spend time with lower players...

In my opinion, to make RvR work for everyone (untill the patch) the self declared "master's" of RvR should help others, by using pleasent language get off their high horse's and make RvR enjoyable to everyone and not to make people feel like 2nd class players...or else those horrible trolls will win everytime..

Mathus WitchHunter Lvl 41.5 Friar Black-Gryphons

 

[Khalen]

Well haven't been so often to RvR with my char even... But I know a lot already about how to react and how to work in a team. If anyone has question they can ask away. I do it a lot already so a few more won't make a difference.

 

[c0ngo]

If you have a problem with then 'a LvL 50 minst (she)' take it up with them

I can't see most people having a problem with anyone going RvR at whatever lvl.

Personally I can't see the point of a lvl 21 going 2 Middie/Hibbie and saying they're LFG at the Alb wall as there are very few grps that are likely to take them and it's not the place to be explaining what to do. If people have questions ask do it at Sauv before porting, most people are happy to help and a freindly chat can be difficult in Emain.

When I was that sort of lvl and a few in the xp grps I was in got their lvl we'd go off RvR (ok bit different then as no lvl 50's etc) and we tried it and made our own mistakes and learnt by them.

I'd recommend that anyone else does the same thing and that they ignore any comments from anyone else that claim they shouldn't be there.

It is a game and you have paid for it so play it as you see best and if anyone abuses you for it surely that's what /ignore is for ?

 

[talen_sun]

Valid points...

Well, an interesting read I must agree....

A valid point made, and one that will certainly raised mixed feelings....

Here is my view on the subject...

A little background first...

Having only started DAoC about 3 months ago, and it also being my first MMORPG (I've done such things as x-wing vs tie fighter/diablo ii etc) i have been lucky enough to join a guild formed by a few friends i used to LARP with. I have roleplayed various tabletop systems, LARPed and such like, and have done for the last 17 years, so a n00b to the game i may be, but a n00b to this type of world, and this 'style' of game, no, i like to think i have more experience than most...

Anyway,

regardless of type of game, be it tabletop, be it online, be it LARP, there will ALWAYS be players who want to powerplay, who will make the DM's life a living hell and so on. This occurs a lot less in face to face games purley for the fact the powerplayer doesn't want the crap kicked out of him.

Now having also been on the web for about the last 5 odd years, again i like to think i know that quite well too, and again, because the web in itself is an anon forum, you mix the powerplayers and the anonymose (spelling is crap i know!!) and you have the PERFECT environment to disrespect other players with NO form of comeback (or very little at least).

My highest character is a level 34 armsman (see sig) and even now, I get blasted by high levels because i am too low for RvR. Tryiing to get a group from 20 to 30 was a bitch, and the only reason i got one was because of my guild and the alliances we hold. (And my thanks go out to all for that! ;-))

Anyway, what you have stated seems to run true, and as humans, (especially us MALES) competitiveness will ALWAYS reign supreme. Especially young males from 14 through to early 20's.

Nothing can be done to combat this, and it is a fact of life we have to put up with it. All i CAN suggest, is to find a guild who is willing to look after their members, and support them whether they are experienced or n00bs. Even now i will raise questions about the game which may seem dumb to a high level, but i have never been laughed at or such like by my guild.

I am listed as an advisor in the game and i will admit to having a groan at some of questions that get put to me, because people are to lazy to read the manual, but I will do my best to answer them, and more often than not, i will be sent a question that i cannot answer. I will admit this and ask that player to /send me should thay find out before i do.

Anyway, I think i have waffled too much and drifted off the subject, so here is a summary -

You can do very little to get the high levels to change the way they are, but you CAN lead by example. Teach the n00bs to have respect for those of lower levels than them, even when THEY reach the 40's and beyond. Maybe by education, we can eventually outnumber those who spoil the game for the few of us that encounter them...

 

[old.Paranoid]

Very intresting sir,

I completly agree with you,

When i was a lower lvl (im only lvl 37 now so im not exactly high) i wasnt wanted at all in RvR people told me to f00k off and ignored me etc.

That changed at lvl 30-35 ish i kept getting invites (im a minstrel, people want the speed), ill be running along quite happily and then a group invite wil pop up... decline... another one... decline... another one... decline... then finaly they msged me 'do you want to join'... NO... because more often then not it is some high lvl just wanting me for my speed, whos name is on my list of people who ignored and wouldnt help me at lower lvls... my reply is genrally...

"You didnt want me 10 lvls ago... I dont want you now..."

Im sure that all they think is WTF... cos they wont remember me... but hey... i dont remember them... but they are on my list for a reason...

Anyway, i will always help low people in RvR if i can... although sometimes i feel like soloing.. because in PvE minstrels are a group only class really, so in RvR its sometimes nice to be alone.. cos in RvR we can solo very well!

Anyway... i agree with you.. some high lvls do have attitude problems, and i believe that one day they will regret what they do beacuse people wont group with them, they wont rezz them, they wont help them....

Edit: I should also say that there are a lot of Top people out there in RvR who will group with anyone... Celt being a prime example... top bloke!

Paranoid

 

[old.goldenbone]

Yep, a whole lot of sense talked in this thread.

I only have a L35 armsman, so Im no veteran, but I've picked up more than the basics. I will try to help out any 'lil lost sheep' who pass my way.

It a fun part of the game.

If someone is in an amazingly innapropriate place, a few gentle pieces of advice can work wonders. the 'get lost n00b' approach is pretty pathetic really IMO.

These principales apply to PvE and RvR. Its a different kettle of fish entirely if a level 1 is spamming tells with 'gimme 1 gold, gimme 1 gold' (sorry off topic rant coming through). They need to be told politely to refrain and if that dont work, /ignore certainly will.

Im not putting myself up on some bullshit moral high ground, I just dont really like bad manners and elitism, and especially in a computer game.. that is sad

 

[Vortigern Wolf]

My two copper worth.

I am about to go into RvR, a low newbie level 22 armsman. I will find a group if I am lucky, my guild may join me, or I will walk alone.

I currently see myself as nothing more than cannon fodder, but as cannon fodder even then I can play a usefull roll.

For I may die with one hit, but while the enemie is hitting me, he is not hitting anyone else. If he has used his endurance to hit me, he has wasted it, I by being there alone may save someone elses life, leading to a whole new spectrum of events as the world and fates turn.

So I am going to experiance RvR, for the second time of one year of playing DAoC.

Spent time on US servers but only just got to 15 before moving to GOA. Not a really serious player.

Vortigern Wolf

Sorry its getting late, I am bored so just waffled.

 

[talen_sun]

Well, to off topic a second -

Vortigrenn, YOU ALWAYS WAFFLE - it's what you do best.

And I'm allowed to say that, high level or not...

1) He's in my guild.
2) I've know him in real life for WAY to long, and we do is throw insult at each other...(it's what happens...trust me!!)
3) I was his best man
4) He scares me when he drives
5) He managed to produce a baby, so i can't insult his small willy anymore (cause he'll argue it works fine!!)
6) He smells (but not as bad as my socks - Shut up Vort, shut up)
7) He's ugly and needs the insults
8) Well...i think thats enough...

 

[--Eraser--]

i remember beeing 34 and in odin's gate, when a high lvl yelled "everyone under 35 is wrong here".

of course i did feel pretty bad, turned my back to rvr and tried to lvl a bit more.

now i am lvl 43....and i am still ignored from higher ppls, so i can only turn my back to them now.

in the forums you can hear everywhere: ppls, please help defending our realm.
there are not less people who are disappointed about lvl 4x players who dont want to do rvr but exps instead...
"i will come when i get lto vl 50" is a declarative not pretty much liked.

i can particularly understand, why some ppls dont want lowbies in rvr, because of the lag. the lag can be pretty annoying, but so far i never experienced a situation like
thousands of n00bs making my framerate crappy...

never. n00bs do normally not participate in keep raids

so i go along with these opinions here. we all have the assignment to be friendly, teach the n00bs what we can and dont take this game more serious than it is.
i can be sometimes hard to keep your calm when you got begged by newbie-chars any minute when you are in camelot hills, of course. there are so much reasons why u can get angry with another player. once soloing in lyonesse i pulled the whole pygmy-house and was responsible for the chase of 3 parties all they way back to cornwall west i think.
i felt really bad, believe me. and i think the n00bs pulling the guards dont feel much better when they see what they have done. its a hard way to learn, for the n00bs not to come too close to a keep, for the high lvl ppls to be a bit more friendly and openminded.

 

[starblade]

Thumbs up for this thread ...
A good start and very wise and polite answers. It is not only a matter that concerns the lower lvls (20-30 or so) but also higher.
I am closing in on my 40 as a pala and never did very much RvR for the simple reason that I had too much fun, oohs and aaahs travelling thru Albion... and because everything was purp in RvR of course

So even tho not an inexperienced player (I will surely not call myself experienced tho), RvR still poses a lot of questions. As a pala, you can only do one thing ... get close and it seems everyone can glue your feet to the ground or has a DD or AE effect. So damn I think ... how DO I get close ? Am I still too low ? .....

Learning is something that is very 'I've been thru it so I know better now' thing in DAoC or at least that is my opinion. But every day, I'll be getting a bit better and some day, some of you purple guys might need to call upon someone like me so think about that first before giving a possible blunt answer (mind, this is NOT an insult, just a thought to keep). After all, if we all leave or get a fierce hatred vs RvR, who will be the next generation of lvl 50's to back you up ?

 

[old.Spanjab]

Perhaps the attitude you describe explains why even though Albion has far more players than the other realms on Excalibur it is still doing crap in the RvR stakes.

Maybe some of the lvl 50 RvR players who want Albion to do well should work with the full spectrum of players who want to help RvR. I agree that any levels will help, the more the merrier! Help them along, by just being rude to them don't you think you might put them off getting to lvl 50 and being a real asset to the realm? If you don't want Albion to do well then why play?

 

[old.Odies]

In your example above it is 100% the newbies fault, being a newbie doesn't excuse you from not using your brain, if you have no clue what to do or whats going on you should stay back and observe and not charge like a complete moron.

 

[Ninjastyle]

i get questions every single day from low lvl infiltrators and i try to answer them all (unless ur the 10th infil a day asking me how to spec )
in rvr i warn/help lots of lower lvls too, cant count the number of lower lvl players i saved before who were being attacked anymore.
if someone asks me where the action is going on in rvr i will ALWAYS reply, wether high or low lvl
it aint hard ppl, it just takes some patience and some typing but it makes it so much easier for the lower lvl players out there

 

[old.chipper]

example if i may

fuk off tosser

sorry m8 busy

hmmm now think about what i just said there.

imo its just as easy to be polite to ppl as it is to be rude i think ppl forgot that there are real ppl playing at the other end of the line and feelings can be hurt i dont think i ever have been rude to anyone unless they started being rude to me i dont see the point all it does is start a flame war (forums excellent example and yes i am guilty of some nasty threads here).

as for rvr hmm well thats a whole new ball game i remeber my first rvr experience in beta was in emain shouted so what we doing got no answer so i ran down hill and into valley following a lot of other albs got closer to crimm saw a red con celt very close to dying bout 2% health BUT he was halfway up the hill to crimm at the time, now me being completely new to rvr and knowing NOTHING about the mechanics of the game i thought right u youre goin down and chased him up the hill needless to say i got wiped (killed him though ) and half the alb army as then highest lvl was 36 omg the flames i got for that still haunt me today (use your imagination on what was said) so thats how i learnt my lesson never done it since well do now but thats cos we can slaughter the guards most of the time, my point is if someone had turned round to me at amg and said look m8 dont get too close to the fort itll end up getting us all killed i would probably not have done so.
BUT i also understand some ppl never learn and it can get very tiresome when youre trying to organise something relic/keep raid and some one shouts charge at the sight of 1 yellow con hibbie/middie and half of the other lower lvls there think oo er better kill it now thats not there fault but if someone shouts out DONT CHASE HIM STAY AND DEFEND OR KEEP ON DOORS DONT GO AFTER LONE ENEMIES and ppl still go after that enemy then thats different if ppl dont want to do as there told on something that someone has spent time planning then imo they have no buisness been there ruining it

frankly i dont think lvl even comes into it really, after all a lvl 6 cleric could have for all u know 4 lvl 50 chars on us server so knows way more than u so be nice to each other manners cost nothing and remember your dealing with real ppl

 

[Arthwyr]

some things i would like to state

1 if you are lower then level 15 its best NOT to go to emain, frankly i did not go there frequently before i had level 45 but i suppose once you get past 35 RvR can become entertaining. As a caster, scout , infil it might even be fun at earlier levels. When a level 12 asks me for a rezz for the 10th time in 10 minutes it's possible i politely point out to him that he might be a bit young for RvR.

2 Once you get a high level you do not need to list yourself as an advisor. Just take anon off and the questions start rolling in. I don't mind anwsering them either unless I am in the middle of something that requires my full attention. And yes people I only put AFK on when i really am afk.

3 I don't know why high levels are rude and most people who i know aren't rude at all but will allways be willing to help out a new player. Funny though how some of the people that are low leveled towards your main character go through a complete attitude change when they play with your lower alt. If they don't know its you ofcourse.

Ever since i started on albion at the release date of the game I have been surprised of the attitude of alot of players on Albion.
This is a game, be fair and help eachoter out. There is really no need to be rude or to act like a jerk cause a player is lower leveled then you. Just remember this... the lvl 10 player who you leave lying dead somewhere without giving him a rezz might be the same person as the LvL 50 guy you begged for money earlier.


Arthwyr pendragon
lvl 50 Paladin
GM <Exiled>

 

[Khalen]

Aye, I grouped with 2 people yesterday, lvl 17 and lvl 35 (me myself being lvl 50). I showed them a bit how RvR is now and how people react. Gave them some RP on the way as well And btw not being asked in a group for RvR happens to me even (lvl 50 so just to let some people know it ain't the lvl...) Ah well gonna see if it is any better tonight...

 

[Vortigern Wolf]

Thankyou Talen for your kind words. When I see you on that paint ball field I am gonna light you up like a well decorated christmas tree. Even if you are on my side!

But anyway, I took myself off into RvR last night and must say that although I lasted until the first enemy hit me. I found no one unpleasent or unhelpfull.

Had good fun and will probably head out that way more often, between bouts of leveling so I can last longer than one hit.

Vortigernn

 

[Karam_gruul]

I agree with you.

I never boss lower lvls around. I've seen some people being complete idiots toward them, which makes me really angry. Unfortunatly its just players on a power trip.

But, when the battlegrounds come out in the next patch, hopefully that will release some of the tension between higher and lower lvl players, which will probably be good.

 

[starblade]

Not to gorget that they can gain some nice strategy and tactics experience there before hitting the grand RvR. At this moment, this is almost impossible for players under 35 or 40 atm (at least, that 's how I look at it as a semi-tank).

 

[-Wedge-]

It happens far to often that low levels get pushed away...

I always reply nicely, I think a 'sry m8, too busy' should be 'allowed' (since sometimes you are too busy )...

But stuff like fuk off, go away noob, etc... Those ppl should just delete their chars and ask GOA to delete their accounts too...

We take guildies with us in RvR to show them what its like... Always tell them they're gonna die as soon as they even see an enemy, but hey, that sometimes still happens to me

And even teamed with a level 10 minstrel in RvR

 

[Madonion Slicer]

Well there was a lot of action last night in Hib Land at the walls, i got myself involved and enjoyed it very much, i asked if i could join any groups but got no replys even had trouble getting buffs.

But i went it alone just stuck with the groups listened out for the Yells of what to do and where to go and i did ok, even though i am only 33 you do come across the odd yellow and orange, even reds are not so bad, and you casters are normally happen when i am taking that pesky pet off of you.

I am finding that RvR is the most enjoyable part of the game, the PvE can become a little boring after a while.

But to say a lvl30 - 35 is not help in RvR i think is very wrong the more the better i would say and besides i dont think i will let anyone tell me how i should play the game, unless you want to pay my subcription then i will play it how ever you want.

I mean an extra 20 - 30 lvl35 Characters charging on the field is going to make a few Hibs and Mids tuck there tails and run for cover, the big your army the more chance you stand.

Just think get a wall of 20 20-30LVLs put them at the front the ememy will have no mana or end left for when the high lvl force reaches them. hence they are screwed. We Win.

 

[Vortigern Wolf]

That is the point I currenlty see myself as in RvR.

Level 22 armsman cannon fodder. I am a one hit wonder and I will die in one hit.

But that one hit means that that the person who is hitting me isn't hitting anyone else for that moment. Leaving the bigger guys more chance of surviving. And if that person is using a special move/spell he is wasting endurance and mana on me.

Get a ton of one hit wonders and you can have fun. Look what the lurikeen uprising managed to complete.

Dont turn us lowbies away, we have uses that you haven't even thought of.

Vortigernn

 

[talen_sun]

And you dont think much, do you Vort? hee hee

Talen strikes again!!!

I agree with that completly though, having 20-30 guys/gals willing to sacrifice themselves in the defence of albion is a very good idea, but, the next problem we face is organisation.

From my *limited* RvR experience, there has been very little organisation, and i won't go into too much detail as that is for another thread, but i am going on the basis that the more the lower levels do RvR, the more organisation they will have when they get to fight alongside the big boys...

 

[old.Lonewolf]

Yah get alot of Infiltrators questions too and always try to answer best I can

Its all in good fun and people need to look at the big picture more

 

[old.Spanjab]

Sounds to me like there is a very small minority of egotistical high level players.

We need to work together more then and get our relic back!

 

[old.Odysseus]

A point is being made here i guess.
A lot of highlevel players are fullspecced in arrogance
-myself included

I try and be unanon most of the time, and I always get a crapload of intelligent questions. I am happy to answer these (and sometimes i sell a bow or two along the way).

Sometimes im anon, thats something I do when im busy - unfortunately i always forget to unanon after i stopped doing whatever it was that kept me busy, I will try and remedy that.

I am always happy to help.