All weaponcrafters +1000 read this plz !!!

[godfried]

Well I've been chitchattin a bit with Konnorel today (both on a mp-order) about wc'ing.
Fact is that making an mp takes a lot of money, a lot of time and a lot of frustration when ur not lucky.
The 99%'s we make from those mp-orders are sold really really waaay to cheap for example 300-350 gp. I remember Kiarra asked 600 gp for a 98% sabre and no-one complained?
You would say yah, that's good for the clients, they can buy really cheap but what happens?
Clients only want to buy from stock and always expect those low prices....no wonder all weaponcrafters go 'guild or friend only' or leave the building bankrupt.
The low price for a 99% and the high price for an mp makes clients think even more about 'ordering that mp'.


So yeah I wouldn't say all this stuff if i wouldn't have a suggestion.

We could:
-put higher, fixed prices on 99% weapons in stock.
-to give the mp-client a help we could give him 1 retry every time we make a 99%. So we can get more mp-orders and make the difference between mp & 99% a little bit smaller

So the only thing we need to do is sit together to talk about the fixed prices. I hope all wc'ers like this idea and hope we can make weaponcraft fun to do in time, money and appreciation!!!!

Greetz,

Martha & Konnorel

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Fixed prices are not allowed by the European Commision. Should you proceed with this project, I will file a lawsuit asap!
Regards, Glottis

 

[Sharp Thing]

Originally posted by Glottis_Xanadu
Fixed prices are not allowed by the European Commision. Should you proceed with this project, I will file a lawsuit asap!
Regards, Glottis

thing is, noone cares about your opinion glottis ...

 

[Tigerius]

Nerf cartells.

 

[Kagato.]

Nice suggestions, only the clients werent the ones to set the prices of the 'stock' 99% weapons, you were, if the 300+ whatever you ask for it is not enough then ask for more.

And I think a number of crafters already allow marginal discounts for the 99's they get during a mp order, depends on the individual as always.

Only thing you can do is find out all the crafters of that type on same server and try to arrange some common agreement on fixed pricing, I usually pay per try myself.

 

[Draylor]

Same applies to all craft skills, not just weapons.

Way back when Kiarra was weaponcrafting the rules controlling quality were different, and there was no competition. Your example of 600g for the 98% sabre really isnt that bad if you remember its not being subsidised by a 100% order. At that point people were tring to make a profit selling items to continue skilling - ridiculous as it sounds given the way people do it today

Anyway, back to the real point. Are you sure you would want to do this?

As things are you take a MP order, and when completed your at worst close to breaking even with a few 99s to sell for a little profit. Since theres unlikely to be anyone selling 99s much cheaper you should sell them fairly quickly, so avoid running into too many problems with lack of gold/vault space/both.

Doing what you suggest youd be making a loss after creating the MP, and have to sell a few 99s to even break even. If you fail to sell the 99s quickly your likely to have to stop taking orders until they do sell since youll be running out of gold.

It might be workable for the richer crafters, but for those just hitting 1000 hoping to start making a profit from MP orders it would not be good at all.

 

[godfried]

well draylor i think ur right on a few points but just want you to say that i'm a new 1000+ crafter. If i try to sell a 99% by the base cost +retry system i get laughed at. Ppl talk to me and say 'hell i don't pay more then 350 gp for a 99% sabre' so then i cannot make 99% from order and i have to wait till i get an mp-order....
So my theory on higher fixed prices is an advantage for new 1000+ crafters and an advantage for the mp-takers. The only thing i'm not sure about yet (since i'm a quite new 1000+ crafter) is how the product flow is. So i think u might be right about the not cashing up of more expensive vaulted weapons.....

Anywayz this thread is important for me to know how other wc'ers think & work and how other players would react on it....so keep ur comments comin

 

[old.Tohtori]

If they need a blade, they'll pay for it.

Not a crafter, i'm one of those buyers you see asking for a set of level 10 armor and getting no answer (grr at you!).

If i need something i'll be sure to pay what is asked, only because at low levels i've gotten atleast a 100g worth of stuff for free over the time i've played. Just because crafters do have hearts sometimes.

 

[gwal]

I couldnt care less what u ask for wpn´s - if ur more expensive than others, do the orders faster - main reason I always use konnorel is cause of how fast he is, no idea if he´s expensive or not

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by godfried

So yeah I wouldn't say all this stuff if i wouldn't have a suggestion.

We could:
-put higher, fixed prices on 99% weapons in stock.
-to give the mp-client a help we could give him 1 retry every time we make a 99%. So we can get more mp-orders and make the difference between mp & 99% a little bit smaller

Been there, done that (this worked fine when there were only 2/3 1k+ WCers). Someone will always undercut you and you're left losing money on the MP and stuck with a huge 99% stock that you can't sell (without losing even more money on).



And I can't be bothered searching for the 2 other threads on this discussion already.

 

[gunner440]

keep it as it is, works fine imho



if u get stressed then just simply DONT DO MP Orders (eh eggy!!)

 

[Glottis_Xanadu]

Originally posted by Sharp Thing
thing is, noone cares about your opinion glottis ...

Ok, I'm sorry if I made a joke you did not like.
But then again, I have no clue who you are, so don't care about your opinion...
Regards, Glottis

 

[Mundokar]

The same thing is probably happening in all realms. The whine about not being able to find a crafter is enormous. Seems all Midgard highlevel crafters have gone /guild /anon /bankrupt. There were a couple of dumb nitwits who sold at material price there 99% stuff and now no-one can be arsed the craft for those prices. And ppl who want to buy are expecting those ridiculous prices.

Ah well, see where this ends..

 

[bracken_woodman]

to competition and a free market


uke: to price fixing

 

[Faeldawn]

Move to albion Crafters n Traders board pls

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Faeldawn
Move to albion Crafters n Traders board pls

why? it's general discussion.

 

[Carlos Bananos]

i have no problem earning money from selling my items at extortionately high prices

 

[konnorel]

1st .. Gwalmar your MP order is ready from last night .. I was looking for you...

2nd and basic topic..

We had a chat with martha this morning.
Look below

Armorcraftrer working on 99's parts with 140-180% mark up.. (thats fair) a 99% piece comes up in 1/6 possibilities TESTED

Fletchers work with 150-215% mark up in a 99's parts

(dunno about tailors)

Weaponcrafters atm work with ONLY 80% mark up in 99's orders
This has as a result the 50% of crafting orders to loosing loads amounds of money

I belive that a 120-140% mark up will be wise for all of us..!

Notice im not a money fanatic but as you can see... the 95% of weapon smiths has quit it..
the reason is this huge nerf....

208g + 6x52g = 521 (is the COST of the cafter)
and crafters selling this (sabre) at 300-400g

now realize the situation....!

Cheers and think about it..! a small gain may bring back all the crafters!

 

[Thorarin]

Currently the prices on Excalibur Midgard are unrealistic, imo. I'm trying to match them as much as possible, but MP prices seem to be based on the assumption that (nearly) every 99% made while hunting for the MP is actually sold.

This just doesn't go for every item.
In the case of weapons, 99s are sold, but maybe 2 to 3 times as many as MPs, while you get over 8 of them per MP. Eventually you will have to throw away 5-6 of those 99s.

Chain hauberks sell pretty well at 99%, but when you look at AF102 studded gloves and boots, there is higher demand for MPs than 99s. This fact is unfortunately not factored in most crafter prices that have become 'accepted' on the server.

As a result, my on-demand crafting prices now vary at my whim. If I have too many 99s already, I will count every try I make. I usually do something in between charge per retry and fixed prices, I share the difference. That way the prices will fluctuate a bit less for customers, but I won't lose 15p on a 3.5p order either (happened before).

It's entirely undesirable to have a crafter market set up like this. People like fixed prices, but until crafters get an enormous cash reserve and tons of orders per crafter, it's just not possible

It's not realistic maybe, but sometimes you wish you could combine 10 99% quality items into 1 masterpiece or something, that would solve some market problems and reduce randomness.


Just my observations and frustrations after extensive crafting (LGM AC, WC, Tailor and SC on my and gf's account)

 

[Draylor]

Originally posted by konnorel
Armorcraftrer working on 99's parts with 140-180% mark up.. (thats fair) a 99% piece comes up in 1/6 possibilities TESTED

Well since the ACer has to charge 150% markup to breakeven on the "average" 99% order Id hope youd say its fair

Weaponcrafters atm work with ONLY 80% mark up in 99's orders
This has as a result the 50% of crafting orders to loosing loads amounds of money

If you take fixed price 99% orders at that price for items you dont have in stock then (sorry, but) your stupid.

The reason this became a "standard" price (at least in Albion) was the number of WCers who hit 1k and wanted to continue skilling to the cap (1065). They took MP orders at "cost", made profit from the 99s produced along the way and had their skilling paid for. Asking a WCer to make a 99% weapon they did not have in stock would result in you being charged cost of materials+retry cost+whatever markup they felt like.

If someone says your prices are too expensive - tough, thats their problem. If someone else wants to take their order at a loss why would you want to stop them?

 

[Tigerius]

One of the larger problems today is the huge strain on money coming from all kinds of directions, making an SC suit that is. Buying random or very rare jewlery, Sidi items possibly, 6 armor pieces, 1-2 weapons, diamond seals for more jewlery, the SC gems/SCers time, alchemy procs. The money sinks are so many and the buyer is likely to be under pressure to produce money for all of the above at once. How much money you make how fast depends greatly on what method you use, but expecting people to pay 1p+ more is no matter what not going to come across very well because most can't spare that.

 

[Mishy]

Dont take orders at fixed prices and you wont loose money.

If the buyer is not willing to pay what it costs to make it, then they can look elsewhere for what they want.

The only reason people were/are able to sell 99% weapons at 300-400g is because someone who wanted a mp order, subsidised the cost of those 99's.

A 99% Sabre/Jambiya left over from a mp order, sold at 350g, means 193g profit for the crafter (assuming he hasnt given a free retry)

Its un-realistic to expect a crafter to make a 99% for 350g from scratch, when the average material cost is 525g.

The only option real option is to do orders by retry if you do not have it in stock.

At the end of the day, you shouldnt be forced to take a loss every time you take an order.

 

[- Fedaykin -]

IMO crafters should charge more than they ae doing if they arn't making money. I don't have the time (well i do) but i cba to get a high crafter, so i think someone who hasput the time and effort in to get a high level crafter, and sit endlessly retrying items deserves some profit

ofc i have all my items now

 

[Faeldawn]

Originally posted by Pin
why? it's general discussion.

Its about price fixing in Albion, surely an issue for Albion players, and therefore would get best response on Albion boards

Think im the only non-alb on this thread

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Faeldawn
Its about price fixing in Albion, surely an issue for Albion players, and therefore would get best response on Albion boards

Think im the only non-alb on this thread

Well, the original post did have that edge, but if you read down you'll see plenty of non-albs.... Sharp, Thorarin, Carlos, Mundokar and yourself.

 

[Faeldawn]

Originally posted by Pin
Well, the original post did have that edge, but if you read down you'll see plenty of non-albs.... Sharp, Thorarin, Carlos, Mundokar and yourself.

True, but if the thread had been on Albion board, response would have been more what the origional poster was after imho.

Was a suggestion to repost this on the Albion boards so as to get more responses from Albion players.

On-Topic: Price fixing is fine as long as its fair. Stable prices for items solves a lot of problems.

eg, DF seals - In Hibernia/Excali we sell/buy for 1g/3g/10g.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Faeldawn
True, but if the thread had been on Albion board, response would have been more what the origional poster was after imho.

No it really wouldn't. There is no way you could double the prices of 99% weapons (or even raise by 50%).


The main problem is that if you narrow the gap in price between 99 and MP it makes the MP look more worth it, and thus reduces the market for 99s whilst increasing the supply of the same 99s. This leads to huge stocks of 99s and no way to sell them at those prices, hence prices have to come down, hence you are back where you started with pricing, but have just lost loads of money on the MPs.


So, doesn't work (and as there are 30+ 1k+ WCers, there's always someone going to be trying to shift gear at a lower price who won't follow your 'rules' )

 

[godfried]

well lots of interesting stuff in it for me and fellow crafters i think...
fact is as what i read here, that most clients think we don't ask enough for a 99%. In my case i will put up my 99% a bit maybe not the doubelling or so but just a bit more to keep thing right....
As for the 99% on orders i'll stick to the retry system which i think is most safe for the crafter and includes little risk for the buyer...
Tnx all for the reactions and hope to craft somthin for yah soon (on a decent price )

 

[old.FIN]

well....

if u wanna buy, then be rdy to pay.

and pay with D seals =)

f.ex if average material costs is 500g, then price is 50 D seals, simple.

if customer dont have D seals, then pay cash little more, because time used on crafting.

 

[Elric IA]

Time for a Hib reply to keep this discussion general!

I very rarely carry stock. The main reasons for this are lack of vault space and lack of cash.

We had (till nerf )some SI features (as I like to call them) where certain mobs were dropping lots of crap drops that were excellent for salvaging. I know people who made a lot of weapons from that and so sold them at 2-2.5 times base cost for 99% and 10-15 times cost for MP. Nowadays i get little raw materials I can use directly for making tier 10 weapons.

People do want fixed prices but if they want the weapon they will pay emerging costs. Fixed cost is little risk to the buyer. He has the cash and has accepted he will pay that. For the crafter the risk is tremendous. Whilst 99% might be on average 6 goes it can often be more (to compensate for the done on first tries). The crafter can easily lose loads.

I have been asked once about a fixed cost MP order. I refused.

The only way to do fixed cost is to have sufficient knowledge of the risk involved that you will either not lose money or that over a period of time the gains outweigh the losses. Unless anyone here is cleverer than me I would not like to try this with the Random Number Generator (RGN) we have.

For instance is there a separate RGN for crafting or is it the same one for determining critical hits, misses, evaddes in PvP and PvE?

I have only had one MP order so far and it was for a shield. I did not charge sell cost for the 99% ones i made to the person as i planned to sell them seperately. I did but it took 2 weeks (only had 2 from it). A vault full of 99% weapons unsold because everyone has one is no use to a crafter .

FYI buying seals and items (such as the infamous Finilath Firebrand in Hib) is no-risk. The buyer knows he gets a certain amount of cash and unless the crafter is trying to make orange con trinkets, he will always get a certain amount of cash. Fixed price for specific quality on weapons though is too random, in my opinion, for a crafter to want to venture into it.

If people want to sell for fixed cost let them. The only way to reduce risk to the crafter is a steady supply of drops that can either be used directly (raw used to make weapons) or indirectly (raw to trinkets to cash to higher raw to weapons). If you have no drops or cash sink then offering all your weapons at a fixed cost based on an RGN that is not 100% clear to understand is probably a good way of losing money unless the fixed price cost increased.