Adoption

[Calaen]

Myself and my wife have always discussed the option of adopting for further children rather than have another one our of own. And after watching the Panorama special http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b019307z on Adoption it has cemented my desire to do so.

The explanation for the show is misleading it didn't really cover so much the costs financially of the adoption process, but it certainly shed some light on the difficulties facing the children in the system. Watching a 10 year old boy with 2 younger sisters be returned from adoptive parents after 4 years because they decided they didn't want them any more (they hinted at the funding being stopped) was heart breaking. And as it stands the 3 of them might have to be split in order to find adoptive parents.

The worst thing about the whole show was the fact two of the cases incldued kids who's mother had learning difficulties and had their children taking away for the childs well being. A young boy of 4 who had a foster family that wanted to adopt him couldn't go ahead because the mother wanted to fight the decision in court. The second mother has actually given birth to 7 children and they have all been taken away from her. There is just something so wrong about it all.

Numbers wise, it costs the government £150 per day per child in foster care (about 800k?).We currently have 65,000 children in the system 5% of them will be adopted, 20% of those will be returned into care. Adoption figures are also at the lowest for years.....

So does anyone here have any experiences with the process?? I requested an information pack straight after last nights programme, but I was wnodering if anyone had any first hand experience with it all.

 

[old.Tohtori]

No exprience ofcourse, but i support your choice to adopt 100%.

Breeding gets no brownie points from me, but adoption does every time

 

[rynnor]

I thought the saddest thing was that social services didnt convince the woman with 7 kids to go on the pill after the first child. She clearly couldnt cope with kids - she couldnt really cope with herself but she pumped out 6 more kids who were all blighted by an uncertain future in care.

Apparently Adopters only get financial help for 3 years which is the point the 3 kids featured at the start were handed back - seems pretty heartless tbh. Maybe there should just be some initial re-settlement money - people adopting for financial gain should be weeded out.

On the other hand foster carers get paid forever so its an odd system - I believe scandanavian countries do adoption a lot better but they spend a lot more on it.

The mum who blocked the adoption of her child by a technicality was a disgrace tbh - its clearly going to happen anyway but she just subjected her own child to months more confusion and uncertainty.

 

[Tom]

My understanding is that the process isn't about finding the right child for you, rather it's finding the right parents for each child.

If you smoke, if you're black (and your partner not), if you have conservative views on discipline, if you read the Daily Mail, etc, get ready to be disappointed.

 

[Calaen]

Yup it showed up so many problems with the society we live in

Yeah I don't really care about the financial side of things tbh, obviously it's a reason why some people do it, but I just could not do that to a child after 3 years. Hand them back as if I was only loaning them for a bit.

 

[Calaen]

My understanding is that the process isn't about finding the right child for you, rather it's finding the right parents for each child.

If you smoke, if you're black (and your partner not), if you have conservative views on discipline, if you read the Daily Mail, etc, get ready to be disappointed.

Yeah the system seems to be far to complicated, this isn't helped by the fact that mongo parents are allowed to keep churning out kids despite not working or having a fixed address.

 

[rynnor]

Hand them back as if I was only loaning them for a bit.

Absolutely - and the damage that being told that your forever home no longer wants you is horrendous - imagine the rejection they felt at an age where they were unlikely to cope with it. Poor little things...

 

[DaGaffer]

Be prepared for a lot of heartache and red tape. A couple of friends of ours tried to adopt and its been pretty disasterous; she couldn't have kids because she had breast cancer when she was young (and they didn't have to time to harvest her eggs). She's been all clear for years, but the fact she's had a life-threatening illness scores against her massively, and here's the Kafka-esque bit; the longer she's all clear her suitability "score" goes up, but every year she gets older, her score goes down! They've done fostering and all sorts, but looking from the outside I do get the impression that you've got to be some kind of god-like being to be allowed to adopt, which is ironic given the state of a lot of the "mothers" I see dragging their kids around Dublin.

Kudos for trying, but go in with your eyes wide open.

 

[Tom]

I'll say again that I have no experience of the system but from everything I've read about it, it seems to be controlled by a group of people who believe that prospective adopters have to be utterly beyond reproach.

I spent a day filming Jeanette Winterson a few weeks back (author of Oranges are not the Only Fruit) and she was quite categoric in her belief that even though her adoptive mother was "a monster", she was far better off with her than she would have been had she stayed in social care.

 

[Mabs]

have a friend who has been fostering for years and years. they keep coming and going on various technicalities. Last lot were 2 and 3 and are being removed after their mother who didnt want them says she thinks the children are "in danger", which they arent, and the social services just went "right ok". Children and foster parents are all distraught, they are being moved to somewhere , she cant know where, and can never see them again, all on the word of a woman who never wanted them in the first place.
Much respect for trying, but be aware that the system is a load of old cock, staffed by jobsworth wankers who dont care

 

[mycenae]

No experience of it myself, and am about to go watch the programme as missed it last night. I know its an utter minefield for anyone attempting to go through it, purely because I see quite of lot of the process through work. I too think that social services and the powers that be when it comes to adoption have it so WRONG......I have looked after countless very sick children at work whose parents can't even wash and dress themselves properly, never mind care for their kids. I have listened to countless stories from these parents about how unfair it is that all their kids are in care and that they keep being taken away from them....and many of them have had 7 or 8 children, all of whom are not 'normal.' They all have learning or behavioural difficulties, some are so bad that they will require lifelong round the clock professional nursing care....and these children are never going to find adoptive parents, never mind foster homes. I mean, wtf? Sterilise the parents....or at least make them have an IUD or an implant or some form on contraception they can't remove! Its just sickening. I know its all sounds a bit '1984-esque' but in the long run we'd be better off as less finaincial drain on governement, NHS, social services, foster parenting etc etc

Rant over

 

[rynnor]

They do seem to have set the bar too high (and their priorities seem odd) - surely common sense says that placing more children in permanent homes is a good thing?

I also dont understand how families judged fine to foster are not automatically fine to adopt?

Edit: Oh and another thing that struck me as odd was the social worker who when the kids said they'd like a house with a dog appeared to take it seriously??

 

[Calaen]

They do seem to have set the bar too high (and their priorities seem odd) - surely common sense says that placing more children in permanent homes is a good thing?

I also dont understand how families judged fine to foster are not automatically fine to adopt?

Edit: Oh and another thing that struck me as odd was the social worker who when the kids said they'd like a house with a dog appeared to take it seriously??

Yeah that was a tad bizarre especially afterwards when you discovered that they had a 3rd sister. Who had been adopted. The worst bit for me was listening to meetings between various parties, when the foster parents said the 3 kids were too much to handle together. I mean come on there are parents who bring up more than 3 kids and yes it's a chore, but those kids were getting stuck in at school, had interests in sensible things Science and reading. And the head on that 10 year old was amazing for the shit he'd been put through. It just seems that alot of people who don't really understand (or are unable to use common sense due to red tape) are thinking about the wrong things when it comes to the kids.

 

[Punishment]

I just find it disgusting that idiots who abuse social welfare can knock them out one after the other while comeone in their late 20's 30's who is trying to be responsable won't have even 1-2 children simply because they are trying to be financially responsable, damages the fuck out of any nation's gene pool tbh

 

[rynnor]

I thought re-involving the mum of the 3 kids whose adoption failed was unfair on everyone and very stupid - she clearly was never going to get them back - she didnt even have a permanent home? It just messes with the kids minds and makes it less likely that their next adoption would work.

 

[Calaen]

Well I am now waiting for a call back from the duty officer!

Might as well make a start on it today

 

[old.Tohtori]

Might as well make a start on it today

Aye, if you've thought everything through, like telling the kid, telling your kids etc.

Don't do it on a whim like "watched show, felt bad" though, that never ends well

 

[mycenae]

Just watched it...wow, what a weepie! I too thought that involving the mum of the 3 kids wasn't fair on her or them....what a head fuck to have to come to terms with! And the mum that was contesting the adoption of little Conor....man....that made me so cross. Way to go to screw up a child!

 

[Scouse]

The worst thing about the whole show was the fact two of the cases incldued kids who's mother had learning difficulties and had their children taking away for the childs well being. A young boy of 4 who had a foster family that wanted to adopt him couldn't go ahead because the mother wanted to fight the decision in court. The second mother has actually given birth to 7 children and they have all been taken away from her. There is just something so wrong about it all.

This made me think of this:

I spent a day filming Jeanette Winterson a few weeks back (author of Oranges are not the Only Fruit) and she was quite categoric in her belief that even though her adoptive mother was "a monster", she was far better off with her than she would have been had she stayed in social care.

...

 

[Mabs]

ive always been of the opinion that we need breeding licenses or something similair , it would solve all the problems: jobs, over crowding, pollution, etc,etc

the trick is finding a system that works without being cruel or open to abuse, so i know its not practical

 

[Calaen]

Aye, if you've thought everything through, like telling the kid, telling your kids etc.

Don't do it on a whim like "watched show, felt bad" though, that never ends well

Oh I'm almost sure I've mentioned on here in the past that it was always in our thoughts, last night was just the nudge I needed to start it off.


Anyway just got off the phone, shirt is soaked through (rather weird ) As per a couple of peoples comments, the whole thing seems riddled with red tape. I am being sent some forms to look over and complete if I want to keep the process moving. So I guess that's it until I send the forms back to them.

Depsite the conversation being very basic with regards to our discussion on the process. It does feel that their is far too much standing in the way of people just wanting to do good. Just being a parent that wants to care for another and being financially secure and in employment isn't enough

 

[old.Tohtori]

Oh I'm almost sure I've mentioned on here in the past that it was always in our thoughts, last night was just the nudge I needed to start it off.

My bad, probably missed it

Anyway, just checking, never hurts to poke

 

[Zarjazz]

I spent a day filming Jeanette Winterson a few weeks back (author of Oranges are not the Only Fruit) and she was quite categoric in her belief that even though her adoptive mother was "a monster", she was far better off with her than she would have been had she stayed in social care.

Nice name drop there I remember watching that show many years ago but its definitely a TV program that left a lasting impression, even now. All I can say if that's her opinion then social care must be worse than hell.

 

[mycenae]

I think its a line from parenthood...." you know, you have to have a license to own a dog, a car or a gun....but they'll let any asshole be a father."
Rings pretty true wouldn't you say?

 

[Tom]

Nice name drop there I remember watching that show many years ago but its definitely a TV program that left a lasting impression, even now. All I can say if that's her opinion then social care must be worse than hell.

It wasn't meant as a name drop as I'd never heard of her before that day, and was only made aware that she was the author of that book when I met her. Of course I knew of Oranges (who doesn't?) and immediately went home and watched it on YouTube.

She's a fantastic person though, I'd love to work with her again. Very grounded in reality, and takes no bullshit Not a lot in this business moves me emotionally, but her prose did.

 

[Cerb]

What do you work on filming/production wise Tom, If you don't mind me asking? I'm working on a docu series at the moment and it's always fun to hear the stories of other people who work in production.

 

[Cadiva]

Myself and my wife have always discussed the option of adopting for further children rather than have another one our of own. And after watching the Panorama special http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b019307z on Adoption it has cemented my desire to do so.

The explanation for the show is misleading it didn't really cover so much the costs financially of the adoption process, but it certainly shed some light on the difficulties facing the children in the system. Watching a 10 year old boy with 2 younger sisters be returned from adoptive parents after 4 years because they decided they didn't want them any more (they hinted at the funding being stopped) was heart breaking. And as it stands the 3 of them might have to be split in order to find adoptive parents.

The worst thing about the whole show was the fact two of the cases incldued kids who's mother had learning difficulties and had their children taking away for the childs well being. A young boy of 4 who had a foster family that wanted to adopt him couldn't go ahead because the mother wanted to fight the decision in court. The second mother has actually given birth to 7 children and they have all been taken away from her. There is just something so wrong about it all.

Numbers wise, it costs the government £150 per day per child in foster care (about 800k?).We currently have 65,000 children in the system 5% of them will be adopted, 20% of those will be returned into care. Adoption figures are also at the lowest for years.....

So does anyone here have any experiences with the process?? I requested an information pack straight after last nights programme, but I was wnodering if anyone had any first hand experience with it all.

Not personally but one of my best friends is a foster carer (she usually takes children with disabilities on a long term basis until they're 18) and my old deputy editor gave up her career to adopt a brother and sister from care. My foster carer friend has recently had all sorts of hassles because they have been allocated a new social worker who doesn't seem to be any use at all and that has caused her all sorts of issues. She's been fostering for more than 10 years, this is a newly qualified SW and she's actually made an official complaint about her (my friend about the SW that is).

My old deputy editor who adopted (with her husband) was 35 if that helps, her husband is a couple of years older. They'd tried and failed IVF before going for adoption and they went straight for that rather than fostering first. If I remember rightly (this is going back to the mid 1990s), they asked to adopt two children at once rather than taking just one and they, obviously, didn't have any of their own children. The children they adopted were aged 18 months (girl) and her older brother, who was three. They'd been removed from their mother's care as she had learning difficulties and they were the fifth/sixth children she'd had in as many years with four different partners. These two had the same father so were true brother/sister and had been neglected rather than abused but they certainly had real difficulties with them in the first couple of years before they settled. Now they're brilliant and to look at them as a family you would never guess the kids were adopted.

I also have another friend whose parents fostered and who felt that her childhood was badly affected by that as the kids they used to take were always ones removed from abusive or difficult families and they received all the attention, if you see what I mean?

How old is your little one and what age are you thinking about adopting?

Good luck with it all anyways Cal

have a friend who has been fostering for years and years. they keep coming and going on various technicalities. Last lot were 2 and 3 and are being removed after their mother who didnt want them says she thinks the children are "in danger", which they arent, and the social services just went "right ok". Children and foster parents are all distraught, they are being moved to somewhere , she cant know where, and can never see them again, all on the word of a woman who never wanted them in the first place.
Much respect for trying, but be aware that the system is a load of old cock, staffed by jobsworth wankers who dont care

Obviously Mabs and I are talking about the same person here ^^

 

[Tom]

What do you work on filming/production wise Tom, If you don't mind me asking? I'm working on a docu series at the moment and it's always fun to hear the stories of other people who work in production.

Not nearly enough right now, it's gone dead around Manchester, but normally a mix of live OB and current affairs, docs, corporates, etc.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Gone dead? The BBC just moved up there!

 

[Tom]

There's never any work around Christmas. Everyone jsut seems to stop bothering. And for some reason a lot of my footy jobs this season have gone.