About the WoW account sale thread

Gef

Fledgling Freddie
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Its closed, yet it still remains there as an advert for all to see and send PM's to the OP?

Truly is fuzzy logic ;)
 

FuzzyLogic

Kicking squealing Gucci little piggy
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Meh, 3 hours sleep doesn't help me function too well.
 

Brunore

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Sorry guys I didnt know that selling accounts was not allowd.
 

Whisperess

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Brunore said:
Sorry guys I didnt know that selling accounts was not allowd.
That's strange, as it's part of the EULA that you agree to after installing and after every patch.

It's also in the Code of Conduct of these forums (that's right, if it says "Announcement:" before the thread title, read it!)

Here's a quote from it:
More specifically, try and trade a DAOC account here and you could well find yourself banned (and your soul sold to Deebs, also known as The Devil). We'll be happy to extend sentences in hell to people who wish to try to trade in things we haven't yet envisaged also, so be it husband or wife, or even mother in law, or anything else you try to trade, we MIGHT slap a ban on your head if we think it's needed. In other words, we don't really want people trading here
I know it says DAOC, but I've highlighted the parts of interest. So once again, how are you not aware of it?
 

Anastasia

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What a suspicious mind you have Whisperess.

Could say that I agree to hand over my first born child in the EULA for all I know. Who really checks the EULA after each patch for changes? Other than Blizzards lawyers?

At least he / she apologised for breaking the rules here. If only more posters were so polite, and less antagonistic.
 

Meduza

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Do u even know how few ppl that actually reads that BS?

Just think of the dood that got $1000 if he send an email to some company in case he read the license agreement (cant remember who). It took 3 months and 1000+ downloads of the program be4 some1 replied, which in my world means, that most ppl r like the OP and myself, not careing or reading about license agreements.

As Ive said a gazillion times before. If the license agreement isnt fair its not binding - maybe thats why ppl dont read 'em. Or could it be that ppl r lazy? I think not... ;)
 

Whisperess

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Meduza said:
Do u even know how few ppl that actually reads that BS?
In a couple of years when you learn that you have to take responsibility for your actions, you'll most likely start reading that "BS" as you eloquently put it.

Now if only "common sense" was common... nah; I guess some people have to burn before learning not to play with matches.
 

Dommelsch

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Whisperess said:
In a couple of years when you learn that you have to take responsibility for your actions, you'll most likely start reading that "BS" as you eloquently put it.

Now if only "common sense" was common... nah; I guess some people have to burn before learning not to play with matches.
i like pie m8
 

Vesuvius

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nah tbh whisperess 90% of the mmporg pop dont read rules n regulations.. i played DAoC for 3 years and never read that one. i HAVE read WoW's but i'm still in addict mode and had nothing better to do while warsong was down..


And do you really feel its necessary to "take responsibility for your actions" in an online game? try n answer honestly.

do you honestly read every contract you sign concerning online games before logging on?

somehow, i dont think so
more likely you checked up on this before posting.

Try not to sound so arrogant when you know people dont read the contracts they sign.

will agree with one thing though, even though i've never really read the codes of conduct etc, afaik its still common knowledge that account sales are prohibited.
 

Whisperess

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Vesuvius said:
nah tbh whisperess 90% of the mmporg pop dont read rules n regulations.. i played DAoC for 3 years and never read that one. i HAVE read WoW's but i'm still in addict mode and had nothing better to do while warsong was down..
If they don't read the rules that apply to the game they are playing, do you feel they can bitch and moan about what happens if they break them? (not applicable in this case, just a general question) In my opinion; it's a gamble they take as they can't be arsed reading through "all that shit".

Vesuvius said:
And do you really feel its necessary to "take responsibility for your actions" in an online game? try n answer honestly.
Yes. (honestly)

If you cheat in an online game (against the eula), would you consider yourself not worthy of a ban if you were reported?

Vesuvius said:
do you honestly read every contract you sign concerning online games before logging on?

somehow, i dont think so
more likely you checked up on this before posting.
If it's a game I'm going to pay for monthly (whenever there's money or personal information involved) I do read through all the rules before the first time I play it. I have read through WoW's, and I have read through Daoc's. While I have tested EQ2 (giving it a fair chance that didn't last very long, and with no intention of paying for it monthly) - no, I haven't read their eula. Should I lose my mind and decide to pay for it monthly; I would read their eula through before making my first payment. You catch my drift?

Admittedly, I do not re-read the terms of use every time after a patch, as I trust Blizzard in this case. Only time I would re-read them is if I somehow learn that severe changes has been made. That's usually not the case though; but should it happen and I find rules I don't like - I'd cancel my subscription and find something else to play.

I have also read through the rules that apply to these forums, as I intended to be using the forums for quite some time. I was thus aware that account trading is against the rules for posting on this forum.

Yes; I did look up the exact quote. No; I didn't skim through it just to see if it wasn't allowed and try to find a quote.

Vesuvius said:
Try not to sound so arrogant when you know people dont read the contracts they sign.
That's their problem, not mine. It's a way to "burn" people so that next time they do read things through before grabbing after that box of matches. If it makes me come across as arrogant, so be it. Not that I give a damn.

Vesuvius said:
will agree with one thing though, even though i've never really read the codes of conduct etc, afaik its still common knowledge that account sales are prohibited.
Yep, just wish "common" would mean something more than "sporadic".
 

Aremeriel

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It pays off to read the CoC and EULA of online games... I once reported a player on the harassement part of the CoC and when I told the player I did, he/she said that harassement wasn't against the CoC, but threats was and as he/she hadn't threatened me I had no reason to report him/her.
Harassing or Defamatory
This category includes both clear and masked language which:
Insultingly refers to other characters, players, Blizzard employees, or groups of people, be they in the game or external
If a player is found to have used such language, he/she may:
Be given a warning
Be temporarily or permanently suspended from the game
What the person said just because I was standing in Southshore next to him/her "/em pokes the pink haired gnome. Plz die IRL!" His/her reason: "Don't like gnomes with pink hair"
I got contacted by the GM not long after and they said they'd look into it.. My guess, the player got a warning.
 

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Vesuvius

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fair nuff, but i guess your in the minority on this - most people dont read em, whether they should or not.

although honestly if you read the eula theres so little to like about it.. if the game itself didnt hold so much appeal i wouldnt pay to play under those conditions.. but its the same for all mmporgs.. i.e we own your account, we can delete you without reason. they hold all rights. from what i remember of the wow one the only thing thats in our favour(other than the cheat and be banned, which is good ofc) 3 months prior knowledge if they decide to stop running the game. Other than that it basically states we have no rights to anything. all we do is pay out £30 for the purchase and £9 a month to keep playing, for something which they could take away at a moments notice.

oh, to answer your first question : No i dont feel people should be allowed to moan/whinge about losing accounts they tried to sell or breaking other rules. But people often dont know they're breaking rules(again, because they didnt read the eula) then theres 2 ways to react.
1. show some sympathy for a guy who made a mistake
2. quote from the eula, tell em he should have read the rules, generally flame/annoy and make em feel worse than they already do.

They've already had there punishment.. why make it worse?

yes, if you cheat you should be banned.
 

Meduza

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I think its funny (and a little scaring) that most of u think that if u agree to the eula, coc, etc., its binding. What u r accepting is that if u have paid for a 6 months period, and they close down the server the day after u paid, u accept to loose cash u paid for (IRL). Its in their (Blizzard) rights - according to license terms - still yet, its not legal.

And u actually accept it, becuz "It says so, and I've agreed to it!".

Then u might say "then don't agree to it!" - true. But the license terms also state that they can change these license terms at any time they see fit. So if they didnt have it in the first place (the above mentioned, where they could close down servers and keep ur pre-paid cash), then they have the rights - according to the terms - to change that (and u just paid under the assumption that they couldnt!).

Then again "U knew they could change the terms - u agreed to it!".

My god, need I go any further?! Nowhere else is terms like this seen - ever!

They have those terms becuz the majority of the ppl p(l)aying r kids, who blindly accepts what written in black on white background.

On a side note, so u know my point of view ;):
- I think its acceptable to both buy and sell accounts for RL cash
- I think its acceptable to both buy and sell gold, items, etc. for RL cash
Maybe becuz I believe in less restrictions on trade of goods... Maybe im just getting old... ;)
 

Sendraks

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Meduza said:
And u actually accept it, becuz "It says so, and I've agreed to it!".
Just because Blizzard can "legally" do something doesn't mean you can't challenge them on it. The circumstances dictating why a server or an account closes would have a baring on both the legal position of the player and blizzard.

There is a world of difference between:

Blizzard take cash and close your account on day 1 for no reason
and
Blizzard take your cash and close your account 1 or 2 months into play because you broke their rules.

One of these you could mount a successful legal challenge on, the other, you couldn't. Its not a black and white case of, if EULA says this then it must apply to everything.

Meduza said:
My god, need I go any further?! Nowhere else is terms like this seen - ever!
Its actually quite a common set of terminology for online games I understand and I would't be surprised if it was used elsewhere.

Meduza said:
They have those terms becuz the majority of the ppl p(l)aying r kids, who blindly accepts what written in black on white background.
I'm not sure what your basis for this statement is, given that the average age for the Euorpean computer games player is approx 20-25 years old.
 

Lakashnik

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people seem to now be trying to sell wow accounts in the daoc trading sections for plats....
 

Jupitus

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Dommelsch said:
i like pie m8
Ure a nob mate - any more shit posts like that round here and I'll dish out a ban.
 

Meduza

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Sendraks said:
Its actually quite a common set of terminology for online games I understand and I would't be surprised if it was used elsewhere.
That *was* what I meant... DAoC have somekind of similar rules

Sendraks said:
I'm not sure what your basis for this statement is, given that the average age for the Euorpean computer games player is approx 20-25 years old.
Saw a survey of the age of who plays online games at my m8s house. Gonna try find it. It says something about 60% (dont hold me up on the number, but more than 50%) was the age of 18 or below in MMORGs in Europe (or maybe UK only, cant remember).
 

tRoG

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On the subject of Blizzard's rules, while reading the naming policy, I came across this:

Thy shalt not have names which...
  • Are mildly inappropriate references to human anatomy or bodily functions
Dammit :(
 

Tallen

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Vesuvius said:
:p

i'll try ;) :worthy:

btw get into WoW
If im last to 60 i get a cookie :)

On-topic: Sendraks, where did you get that average age from, what source?

There was a BW poll a long time ago that had the average age as 17 if i remember correctly, be interesting to see if the genre is moving towards older players as it would seem from WoW that more younger players are drawn to the game as a proportion.
 

Meduza

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Sendraks said:
I'm not sure what your basis for this statement is, given that the average age for the Euorpean computer games player is approx 20-25 years old.
Ye, Id like to see that source too...

Or r u just talking rubish ?!

As some1 else said in another thread, 68% of all statistics r made up on the spot... (go figure! ;))
 

Ormorof

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Tallen said:
If im last to 60 i get a cookie :)

On-topic: Sendraks, where did you get that average age from, what source?

There was a BW poll a long time ago that had the average age as 17 if i remember correctly, be interesting to see if the genre is moving towards older players as it would seem from WoW that more younger players are drawn to the game as a proportion.
surely if it was on BW and those players are still playing then it would be 18+ now? :p
 

Jaapi

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Vesuvius said:
And do you really feel its necessary to "take responsibility for your actions" in an online game? try n answer honestly.
Of course, since in multiplayer games your choices affect others as well. Just makes sense for normal people.
 

Sendraks

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Tallen said:
On-topic: Sendraks, where did you get that average age from, what source?.
Off the top of my head, it was either in PC Gamer a few years ago or the Official PS2 mag. I forget, I've read both regularly over the years.

The figure was for europe and was some sort of market research type thing, probably done by Sony Europe or some such.

Anyhow, basically the average age of computer games players in Europe was around the 25year old mark, based on the fact that consoles like the PS2 and Xbox had made gaming popular again and the people with the resources to buy said consoles and games were people of the age group 20-30 years old.

This could readily be extrapolated to P.C gamers who seem to be, from my experience, more likely to be in full time employment with the resources to buy and maintain their own P.Cs. Certainly its true from my own experience, as the majority of gamers I know are of my age, so around 30 years old give or take a few grey hairs. Certainly the majority of people I knew when playing DAoC were of my age or older with very few under 20s about. Doesn't mean they're not out there, but I just don't think they are in majority.

Tbh, I think if you run into someone in game acting like an immature prick, odds are they are 20+ (or maybe even 35, married with 2 kids and a cat called Perkins) and they just are an immature prick, rather than someone still in their teens.
 

Meduza

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Sendraks said:
Off the top of my head, it was either in PC Gamer a few years ago or the Official PS2 mag. I forget, I've read both regularly over the years.
As I said: Most statistics r made on the spot!

Sendraks said:
The figure was for europe and was some sort of market research type thing, probably done by Sony Europe or some such.
...some sort... probably... some such... Yes, accuracy sure isnt needed when making up statistics!

Sendraks said:
Anyhow, basically the average age of computer games players in Europe was around the 25year old mark, based on the fact that consoles like the PS2 and Xbox had made gaming popular again and the people with the resources to buy said consoles and games were people of the age group 20-30 years old.
Resources to buy? Dont u know that most kids gets their parents to buy those consoles, and the whole discussion about violent computergames comes from the same parents buying their kids these consoles and games? There wouldnt be such a debate, if ur *proclaimed* age group was right, would there? (ie. 25+ years of age!)

Sendraks said:
This could readily be extrapolated to P.C gamers who seem to be, from my experience, more likely to be in full time employment with the resources to buy and maintain their own P.Cs. Certainly its true from my own experience, as the majority of gamers I know are of my age, so around 30 years old give or take a few grey hairs. Certainly the majority of people I knew when playing DAoC were of my age or older with very few under 20s about. Doesn't mean they're not out there, but I just don't think they are in majority.
In ur experience... Aye! Whom u seem to talk to... Aye! But like u write:

Sendraks said:
Tbh, I think if you run into someone in game acting like an immature prick, odds are they are 20+ (or maybe even 35, married with 2 kids and a cat called Perkins) and they just are an immature prick, rather than someone still in their teens.
U wouldnt continue to talk to these *pricks*, ehh? So most likely u avoid a lot of ppl, and the online friends u make seems to be around ur own age, and therefore u *think* that all online gamers r around *ur* age!

I still say that 50%+ is between the age of 13-18...
 

Sendraks

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Meduza said:
As I said: Most statistics r made on the spot!
I remember quite a few polls on the D2.net forums that also showed the 20+ bracket having the lions share of the playing population.

Meduza said:
Resources to buy? Dont u know that most kids gets their parents to buy those consoles, and the whole discussion about violent computergames comes from the same parents buying their kids these consoles and games? There wouldnt be such a debate, if ur *proclaimed* age group was right, would there? (ie. 25+ years of age!)
Ok a few points here.

WHile I don't doubt that children get their parents to buy them a console as a christmas or birthday present, there are plenty of other people who can afford to buy a console outright, such as myself, and keep themselves supplied with games on a regular basis. As a producer of games, you want to target your product to the market with the most buying power, this is obstensibly not children, but people with jobs and plenty of disposable income. The games industry is not thriving off the pocket money of children or the minority of parents who spoil their kids.

This is, in part, why there are an increasing number of 18+ "adult" games on the market, the majority of which will be purchased by said adults. The only reason you get controversy surrounding these games is due to a few isolated incidents of bad behaviour on the part of children whose parents were dumb enough to buy them/let them buy said games. It is not an indicator that the majority of games players are children (as they were during the 1980s).

Meduza said:
U wouldnt continue to talk to these *pricks*, ehh? So most likely u avoid a lot of ppl, and the online friends u make seems to be around ur own age, and therefore u *think* that all online gamers r around *ur* age!
A lot of this is assumption on your part and almost all of it is wrong.

I don't conciously avoid anyone, certainly not in a gaming environment, the people I ran into in DAoC were just people I ran into. That almost all of them turned out to be 20+ or even 25+, was not a result of concious effort on my part.

Also, some of the ones who were pricks were older than some of the more mature, friendly people.

My first foray into the online gaming community really did surprise me. I was expecting to encounter a lot of spoilt, bratty, kids and instead I found a community mainly populated by adults, most of whom were likeable and only a few bad eggs here and there. Not that there weren't kids of 18 or less, but they never seemed to be in the majority. Again, finding this was not a result of a concious effort on my part.

As for thinking that people who play games (I never specifically said the figures related to online games) well this is born out by fairly rationale thinking on my part. That people who are 20+ with jobs are the people who can afford to buy games machines and play games, that normally for online games you need a credit card thus you have to be 18+ and I really don't know that many parents (and I know a fair few) who spoil their kids by paying for online accounts.

There is also the fact that the people who were playing games back in the 1980s were children, but these children are still playing games (and/or making them) but they are now about 20 years or so older.

Meduza said:
I still say that 50%+ is between the age of 13-18...
I've not seen anything to indicate children are in the majority beyond an assumption.

Not that 50% is a majority. As the remaining 50% could well be filled with the 18 to dead section. And as I know a fair few gamers who are 50+
 

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