About nightshades grouping abilities.

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old.Niljindil

Guest
Ok, this is in an attempt to close this topic.

I always felt that nightshades were ok in groups and all, they were never making xp better as compared to killing something easier with one man less. But here is the facts.

They tank less effecient that a shield hero. Whatever you say you KNOW this is true. more hp + higher damage table + taunt + shield = best tank hands down.

And thats it, i know a nightshade can tank well with warden bubble and guard. But imagine if you had a shield hero that guarded the guarder. Its not needed to get a group going, but it helps.

The fact IS that you are not as good as any other class in a "normal" xp group in the roles you can assume. The thing is that most of you KNEW you would have a really hard time xping when you made your characters. If i wanted to be level 50 now i would have made an enchanter. If i wanted to rvr i would have been a shade or a ranger. But im not, because i wanted to be average/good in both, so i chose a mentalist. If it was a fact that power regen was useless in groups and noone ever needed healing and nukers sucked, i would NOT have created a mentalist because i cant handle frustration like that.

And to everyone reading this thinking "ok, now im not gonna group a nightshade". Bear in mind that a nightshade that knows what he is doing is a helluva lot better than a tank that have no clue about when a mob is mezed and replies to "Are you using taunt?" with "u stupid? im using fireblade cuz i do l337 damage!".

And i can assure you that any nightshade lvl 40+ knows what he is doing, a person unable to grasp things will never be able to level this kind of character to that point.

And as a conclusion, ive yet to meet the nightshade that does his own thing instead of listening to the otehr group members when suggesting things. But ive met ALOT of bad heroes in my days, especially spear ones that assured me that they were taunting when my CHAMPION friend took agro without taunting at all while being 2 or 3 levels lower. Happened TONS of times and i tell you that some ppl just dont care about others opinions(sort of like me, but im willing to discuss it first).

The End
 
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old.Klazartthetank

Guest
dum de dum

i'm not sure what to say on this one.. ur post just about sums up the general attitude of ppl against NSs and thats why they can't exp.

For ur info soloing after level 40 is not hard, its actually impossible, the amount of exp u get is ridiculous, u can spend hours and hours and then 1 death and its all gone again.

If u really want 2 lecture NSs about wanting to be in groups then play one, walk in their shoes for a while and u will feel their pain.

NSs are hard to level, we know that, and yes despite that we picked the class.

However, ppl have adopted an overly selfish attitude towards exping to the point that they ignore NSs and Rangers, which is really lame. There are still peeps who always group rogues, which is the way it should be. U help the rogues out in PvE and they help you out in RvR.

Remember its the NSs who protect u mainly against enemy stealthers, if u don't help them to exp, ur realm will suffer. You have no idea how much of a difference having a level 50 assassin around makes.

If u don't believe me ask Novamir, Xnijh, etc who I was grouped with this morning for RvR.
 
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Cloak_

Guest
We group ppl because we like the person,, If it happened that we were 8 Blademasters (thank god it aint :D ) then so be it :p

Just happens that we have a very well balanced teams including 2 rangers (and used to be a now lvl 50 NS :clap: )

I dont see what the problem is with ppl grouping Stealth classes :confused:
 
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old.Niljindil

Guest
Re: dum de dum

Originally posted by Klazartthetank
i'm not sure what to say on this one.. ur post just about sums up the general attitude of ppl against NSs and thats why they can't exp.

For ur info soloing after level 40 is not hard, its actually impossible, the amount of exp u get is ridiculous, u can spend hours and hours and then 1 death and its all gone again.

If u really want 2 lecture NSs about wanting to be in groups then play one, walk in their shoes for a while and u will feel their pain.

NSs are hard to level, we know that, and yes despite that we picked the class.

However, ppl have adopted an overly selfish attitude towards exping to the point that they ignore NSs and Rangers, which is really lame. There are still peeps who always group rogues, which is the way it should be. U help the rogues out in PvE and they help you out in RvR.

Remember its the NSs who protect u mainly against enemy stealthers, if u don't help them to exp, ur realm will suffer. You have no idea how much of a difference having a level 50 assassin around makes.

If u don't believe me ask Novamir, Xnijh, etc who I was grouped with this morning for RvR.

Klaz, i group with NSs and rangers all the time, i just stated the facts, because thats what they are, facts.
 
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old.Gobarnachta

Guest
W00000000000t??????

I am getting this funny idea from your post that enchanters would suck in RvR?

Or atleast be almost like 'shades in exping' (btw. piercer spd dual wield etc...is 100x better in keeping aggro than LW hero)

So in conclusion I just want to say that I have had verymuch fun in RvR with my 100% Mana specced chanter (with stuff my mana is at lv60)

I know it is easier ofcourse to be shade and more chances to succeed in getting rps when SOLOING from every RvR action u take part in but with chanter you need to have good plan and a bit luck and common sense and you can easily get almost to same but never 100% safe as goes to every class who doesn't have stealth.

I have atm 68k RPs with my chanter and I have soloed over 50% of them.

About NS in a grp is worthless without bubble that's true since they are on leather and low in health but in every good grp there is always 1 leech :) and you nightshades know how to get a grp for 100% sure is to build your own, just ask from Klaz he knows it and so should you, also this way you can say that you ain't no leech since u r handling the group getting replacements listing ppl in queue etc...and ofcourse as said with bubble u can take aggro but I surely hope that warden is high lvl or your tanking will fail many times in your own death and that is no good for anyone :(

Stop class racism now, we have all our good and weak spots just try to make yourself useful and plan new tactics how to succeed if old masterplan is not working with your character, specially in RvR I've made some very good shepherding and nicely disco'd whole enemy groups down and if it doesn't work in first try don't give up :p

-G
 
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Novamir

Guest
enchanter is the best solo mage in hibernia (with 40+ mana spec) because of the speed buff
 
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cjkace

Guest
Selfishness!

I'll personally accept a chimp into any group I am leader of (even Eble!!!:) ) never mind a NS/Ranger but it's got to the situation that I no longer want to group with anyone.

I have been invited into groups where lower lvl members have been booted in favour of someone of the same class who is a couple of levels higher, prompting me to dump the group instantly.

What bugs me is people's attitudes. It seems that NS/Rangers/Lower Levels get scorned simply because people want to get uber XP so they can get to lvl 50, and then go to RvR and die a little less than they did when they were lvl 45. Me I just like to have fun and grouping all the time to hunt for XP gets boring very rapidly - I would rather hunt lower con stuff that had good drops.

Like I said above, I'm solo all the time now, I group only with other guild members or people I know and then only for fun, and I'll still get to lvl50, probably just in time for 1.50 :) :)

Can't people just have fun? If u accept someone into your group thats not your idea of the perfect member then hunt something a little lower con. Everyone gets a little less XP but so what!

BTW I find it amusing that NS/Rangers can't get into XP groups, but when it's time for RvR then they are highly sought after. I wonder why that might be? </em sarcasm> :) :)
 
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old.Edyw

Guest
BTW I find it amusing that NS/Rangers can't get into XP groups, but when it's time for RvR then they are highly sought after. I wonder why that might be? </em sarcasm>


When i ask for exp group it is always full. even when it is not.
 
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Eleasias

Guest
Like most of you know I was 47 for over a month, and find it highly amusing that when I was solo RvRing I was called lame for not grouping, wtf would I give RP's to people who tell me to piss off when I ask for an exp group? Lately I got some darn fast exp and those who RvR a lot, has probably grouped with me from time to time (if you grouped with me in exp, that is)
 
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Aeiedil

Guest
and find it highly amusing that when I was solo RvRing I was called lame for not grouping

well i have been near you twice really in a groupable situation

one at a middie relic raid a while ago, where you grouped just to get the run buff to Lamfhota and then disbanded when we arrived

the second was when it was just us 2 in emain, and you refused to group even when teaming on a cleric

wtf would I give RP's to people who tell me to piss off when I ask for an exp group?

of course theres people you never did ask after you far passed my level
 
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old.Niljindil

Guest
Originally posted by Gobarnachta
W00000000000t??????

I am getting this funny idea from your post that enchanters would suck in RvR?

Or atleast be almost like 'shades in exping' (btw. piercer spd dual wield etc...is 100x better in keeping aggro than LW hero)

Where did i ever say enchanters are crap in RvR?

They are *the* PvE class in hibernia. Just because i said that they doesnt have to be crap at rvr.

And to the "if i wanted to rvr" thing i got one word. Stealth.

And well... im a Mentalist.. lvl 46.. and i have 100k rp and i gained like 70% solo or in a duo with my lvl 42 eldritch friend. Not like that matters tho but since you went all braggy i thought id do it too :p
 
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iziz

Guest
Niljindil...

At the lower levels yes I would agree - but once you get into the world of the warden 6 second bubble I really don't - nightshades CAN tank better than tanks. Between bubble, the high evade, stun and poisons, a shade can tank a fin / warshade / whatever, usually without taking a hit... ask people that have grouped with me when I've had to tank a glimmer knight...

But as I've been saying all along... not getting a group is NOT the problem here... it's people's attitudes. It's the people who won't reply to you, and then say "sorry" 10 mins later once they've found someone 'better' to fill the spot. Or people that say "yeah sure, but you'll have to wait in the queue", but you never get grouped coz they have no intention of grouping a rogue. That is the problem - it always has been. A simple "no" from the beginning is much more appreciated.
 
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Tank Init

Guest
a niteshade can never out tank a hero why? because a hero has large shield and guard now u might not relise this but when i go ez as a hero and get a 5-7 pull from been scouted i dont stick to one target i get 3-4 targets on me by using taunt as long as all targets are infront of me i got a chance to block 3 of them by using large shield plus im blocking for the person im guarding a niteshade could never do this.

but yes i agree with standard pulls 3-4 a niteshade with 6 sec bubble is as good as anyone else.

so come on ppl get them niteshades and rangers into your groups and lets get them to lvl 50 after all we are a realm not uber individuals (well some ppl might think they r :) )
 
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old.lewstherin

Guest
Ele ive xped with u ... can I leach some rp now? =)


haw haw haw
 
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tilde

Guest
An assassin cant out-tank a "real" tank coz of shield and armor and guard/intercept/protect.

An assassin do outdamage tanks, there for good as a damagedealer (i.e casters).

Sure, they got evade etc BUT that isnt that good vs hard mobs - best tank vs mobs is a defensive paladin who has platearmor, highest AF, healchant(very good for agro), protect/intercept/guard and can rez if anything goes wrong. - tho sux in rvr ;) - i bet u have a similar tank in hibernia, but u get my point i hope

I have no problem regarding grouping with an assassin - aslong as i have another defensive tank who can guard me -

Well, thats the way it goes in Albion atleast ;)
 
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cjkace

Guest
Nope we don't have a tank that wears plate (scale is best armour in hib), healchant or rez. The closest to that is a warden, but their best defence is the 6 second bubble, and as far as I know do weak damage.
 
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old.Thanatlos

Guest
Never mind grouping a shade, ranger or even other gimpy wardens :)

Sure I feel safer with an extra tank but I feel better helping someone who's been shafted for groups a lot more..

Hell, I was in a group with 2 shades today and no-one died.. *shock* and one of em was aiedel *even more shock*

Grouped with ele too when he was still highest in realm (was about 45 then) and he kept asking me to join him which imho is what shades/rangers should do more often.. can't get a group? set one up..
But then again this is easy coming from a warden who's grouped with almost the entire 40+ population I guess..
Make friends, have nice conversations, make sure you're on their friends list and they will remember you.. (I got a friends list 20 pages long so don't blame me if I never mention you :) )

Or do like alderian: say you have pbaoe :)
 
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Aeiedil

Guest
than, you missed out the ranger :)

i got bored and was sat with snakeeyes (40 shade) in innis lfg, and then xray popped up :) and lo a group was born :) after much shuffling when i left we had

40.5 nightshade (snakeeyes)
42 nightshade (me :D finally dinged in this group)
48 warden (than)
42 warden (xray)
43? ranger
39ish druid
36ish bard
38ish mentalist

that group worked well :) went wiping the pook spawn very efficiently ;)

now on that list i count 5 "PvE gimps"
2 x wardens tanking (legendary miss rate?)
3 x rogues

we had no deaths :p the group worked :p shades are lovable see :D
 
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old.mos

Guest
Rangersss

I have noticed a big change in attitudes towards both rangers and shades. When the pbaoe frenzy started it was impossible to get into groups, but that seems somewhat a thing of the past. Like eleasias i got stuck on a level for ages (Allthough he was far more presistent, I got stuck on 43). I just couldnt stand soloing any more, 20 hours of treekilling just isnt my idea of fun. From being the biggest fella in the guild i quickly became the smallest as wardens, mages and tanks just rushed past me. I was very close to deleting the character (And so was an enchanter most of you know of). But all the sudden ppl seemed to realise that you dont need a perfectly balanced group to get the exp flow up. And all the sudden I was 46. So thnx to all the friendly ppl put there who accepts us rangers in. We can actually be of some use.

Mos 46 ranger
Dong 23 warden
mosan 23 eldritch

Pro veritas!

"En dag ska jag lära er allt om semicolon"
 
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Elric IA

Guest
Having a good group who work well is just as important as having the right mix of characters. Been in a group tonight with one nightshade that worked well, and having a level 7 alt ranger, I know that their bow damage outweighs their melee so one standing back shooting arrows into the mobs whilst tanks take aggro works well.

Even a 'perfect' group on paper will be no good if the people do not gel and work as a team.

Good luck to all you rangers and shades

I'll personally accept a chimp into any group I am leader of

By the way chimp or champ? I look bugger all like a chimp LOL
 
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old.Niljindil

Guest
Re: Rangersss

Originally posted by mos
So thnx to all the friendly ppl put there who accepts us rangers in. We can actually be of some use.

Rangers and Nightshades are of great use, but the point is that there are better choices and that seem to cloud many a persons mind.
 
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old.Nero_AnkleBiter

Guest
nij after reading your post i can only think of a few words in which to say to u.

Thanx a %$£@#ing lot.

Who cares ive quit.

Nero.
 
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Aeiedil

Guest
when my CHAMPION friend took agro without taunting at all while being 2 or 3 levels lower

Champs aint that bad at holding aggro :p I lose aggro less to a champ than to a hero
 
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old.Niljindil

Guest
yeah, i know, but the fact is that if the hero was taunting, the champ WOULD NOT be able to take agro WITHOUT taunt :)
 
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old.Niljindil

Guest
Originally posted by Nero_AnkleBiter
nij after reading your post i can only think of a few words in which to say to u.

Thanx a %$£@#ing lot.

Who cares ive quit.

Nero.

Erm, its the truth, i just didnt like ppl threating ppl because they didnt get any groups.
 
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Avoca

Guest
6 weeks now

Since I had a group that got good exp.
I have given up asking for groups and swore not to ask/beg for a group again.
It was totally frustrating and a waste of good soloing time.
I put on the anon sign and afk sign...stopped RvR and went hunting determined to get to 50 as quick as I can without the headache rejection gives.
I leeched in a fins group for 2 hours one night and a comment next day was the group threw a bone to the ranger.
I aint no dog ...and I'll be damned if I'll be treated like one again.
Now I log on get one bubb a night and feel happy.
Best exp group i had in last week was with a lev 49 scout...it has gone that bad.
But I do feel sorry for Nightshades they have to ask to get into a group..they cant say piss off world Im going the Mad Hermit Ranger route.
Avoca the mad Hermit ranger of the woods.
 
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Aeiedil

Guest
nightshades can solo avoca, but personally i dont like soloing, and i seem to be on the awkward level where almost everything you dont get damage penalty's on hits with a bonus vs leathers :(
 
L

Lessurl

Guest
Re: Re: Rangersss

Originally posted by Niljindil


Rangers and Nightshades are of great use, but the point is that there are better choices and that seem to cloud many a persons mind.

Uhm, not better choices, different. I've been in a very good group raking in xp faster than i've ever had since, that had....wait for it.... no tanks at all. Every time i start a group people turn up and say we need more tanks or we need more healers. Why?
We did perfectly ok with a grp of mages a ranger and a druid incase it got messy. We were nukin (and.erm..archerin?)grovewoods 3 at a time for mighty fast xp, especially as one mage was a mentalist. Yay mana regen:clap:
But back to my point, there are no better choices for a grp, just different ones involving different tactics for killin the mobs. It just seems that everyone is fixated on the standard tank/healer/nuker grps and unable to come up with any alternative strategies for killin the mobs. Of course healers should almost come as standard in a grp, but not even they are always necesary. Comparin rogues to tanks is the wrong way to go about it, they are their own seperate class and in my opinion offer their own benefits to a pve grp. I will always grp anyone who asks to join so long as we still have space left for them (and they aren't ridicoulously low or high lvl) with the exception that i will always be biased towards having at least one healer in the party. (who else is gonna rez me when i do my suicide commando bit? :p ) So if u r stuck u nice shades and rangers give me a mess and i'll let u into my grp (assuming i have one) or we could start our own and show these people what a grp of rogues (and and eld :p ) can do. :D
 
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old.Niljindil

Guest
Thats the point, and i know, i was prolly the first(on this server) to make one of the grovewood lumberjack groups ;)

BUT, a nightshade only has its melee(VERY good melee) but suffer from the fact that doing damage and taking damage dont go well together which is the "spot" in a group most people would think an NS are suited for :(

The thing is that with this game you cant be a closecombat damage dealer...if you are a damage class(definition: high damage, low defense) you can only function at range because of agro reduction or otherwise you will draw agro, imho that really sucks, i mean, why should the mobs go after an 'assassin'? Really think there should be some kind of agroreduction because of the fact that they are indeed an assassin class....Sort of what they did with rangers or something...

I do not agree that it should be this way, but the truth is that it is...
 

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