About Assassins

[Bloodaxe_Springskalle]

im sure there has been a million threads about this, but here goes...
(not a "nerf infs" thread, constructive feedback only pls)


str/con debuff
Slash vs. Thrust specs
off-evade stun (Diamondback, Dragonfang vs. Comeback+frosty)
Spec pts vs. what SB and NS got.
Class spesific RA's (after NF this isnt really a big issue)

str/con debuff : Since Shadowblade has no option to spec anything but pure str based they get the shortest straw here since both NS and Inf that spec slash could avoid this problem by choosing another spec.
- My suggestion would be a Dex/qui debuff poison.

slash vs thrust specs : Since SB only can spec slash weapons they get no option to avoid getting gimped dmg when fighing other assassins.
Inf and NS has the choice between thrust or slash, SB don't and 2h isnt something that counter that flaw.
- This wouldnt be a problem if we got dex/qui debuffs

off-evade stun : Since both infil and NS get stun first style after evade (if Thrust/Pierce specced) where SB get's stun on second style in evade chain (if LA specced) Shadowblade get's worse out in this too.
The second style in LA evade style is very often avoided just by a bit of strafing wich btw happens alot.
- My suggestion is since evade styles is mostly used by assassins it wouldnt hurt if the Sword evade style got a 5 sec stun aswell if the user is assassin (as some LA styles is different for SB's than for zerkers etc. this could work)

Spec pts vs. what SB and NS got : Spec points definetly opens the possibilty to get EVERYTHING where SB and NS must choose between crit+weap+enven+stealth+low to none LA/CD or crit+weap+LA/CD+stealth+low to no envenom
This hits SB hardest too imo, cos of the way Left Axe works compared to CD and DW.
The fact that speccing 50 weapon without losing much pts in LA/DW/CD is a huge advantage due to weapon skill and style is far better than a few hitpoints or whatever NS got. (more spell dmg for NS wasnt it?)
- My suggestion would be that NS and SB got 2,5xlvl and Infs got something to make up for what NS/SB got earlier. or remove what NS/SB got earlier ^^


ppl prolly have different views on this, these are my suggestions and would like other qualified views on the subject, thanks

edit: PS. albs would still be the stealther realm due to the stealth grps they can make compared to hib/mid.

 

[Pin]

Firstly, stop thinking purely about assassin vs assassin, or assassin vs stealther.

str/con debuff : Since Shadowblade has no option to spec anything but pure str based they get the shortest straw here since both NS and Inf that spec slash could avoid this problem by choosing another spec.
- My suggestion would be a Dex/qui debuff poison.

Would totally overpower assassins, as a Dex/Qui debuff would wipe the defense of shield/parry/evade, and reduce castspeeds to castrate casters/healers.

slash vs thrust specs : Since SB only can spec slash weapons they get no option to avoid getting gimped dmg when fighing other assassins.
Inf and NS has the choice between thrust or slash, SB don't and 2h isnt something that counter that flaw.
- This wouldnt be a problem if we got dex/qui debuffs

As above, Dex/Qui debuff would cause more problems in general than it would solve. This is NOT an answer.

off-evade stun : Since both infil and NS get stun first style after evade (if Thrust/Pierce specced) where SB get's stun on second style in evade chain (if LA specced) Shadowblade get's worse out in this too.
The second style in LA evade style is very often avoided just by a bit of strafing wich btw happens alot.
- My suggestion is since evade styles is mostly used by assassins it wouldnt hurt if the Sword evade style got a 5 sec stun aswell if the user is assassin (as some LA styles is different for SB's than for zerkers etc. this could work)

Savages get a rear stun in their primary specline, while Reavers have an off-block, or 3rd off-parry. I'd suggest giving Reavers a low end-cost, high-damage positional stun to counter this imbalance

Sorry, the lines and classes are different, you shouldn't have everything that your opposite numbers have. And your stun is 7s instead of 5s.

Spec pts vs. what SB and NS got : Spec points definetly opens the possibilty to get EVERYTHING where SB and NS must choose between crit+weap+enven+stealth+low to none LA/CD or crit+weap+LA/CD+stealth+low to no envenom
This hits SB hardest too imo, cos of the way Left Axe works compared to CD and DW.
The fact that speccing 50 weapon without losing much pts in LA/DW/CD is a huge advantage due to weapon skill and style is far better than a few hitpoints or whatever NS got. (more spell dmg for NS wasnt it?)
- My suggestion would be that NS and SB got 2,5xlvl and Infs got something to make up for what NS/SB got earlier. or remove what NS/SB got earlier ^^

2.5x spec points is too high, and NS/SB should not be raised to this. Infs should probably have had 2.3/2.4 way back in the day, but this won't be changed again.

 

[Danya]

I say we bust assassins back down to 2x spec points. That'll show them!

 

[Tualatin]

here goes;

Albion doesn't have insta mezz, midgard doesn't have thrust weapons (except hunter spear then).. realms are different. classes are different, im not saying it's ok.. but what do you want? Everything fair? lower savage dmg cap, loving to wizard, nerf chanter etcetcetc? Not gonna happen.

For the more spec points infils have, they dont perform that much better.. they got a 9 (inc nerf to 6) sec stun for a 50 spec, while the NS has this at 25.

Thrust, has a penalty on leather, slash a bonus.. the debuff is more powerfull, but slash hits harder as thrust anyway so that's evened out.

I dont have a clue about NF ra's for assasins.. but it's about time they can't gank a tank anymore.

Also, this isn't meant as a flame towards you.. and im sorry if this isn't construtive enough. Only option to balance assasins is to make em all with same things, but where's the fun then? and so what if a NS > infil > SB.. it's just so... we're not shouting give merc quad hit aswell?

 

[Wmv]

Change str/con debuff to a ws/con debuff

 

[Bloodaxe_Springskalle]

agree pin, good points but was only my (not so thinked thru suggestions), but i still think something needs to be done as SB got too many odds against them in the most important areas. and we do not hit harder than our counterparts as stated, we're equal if we have str relics ^^.
it isnt funny being lowest on the food chain, i know we've had our glory days but that's not what im after...
as it is now, NS and inf got off evade stun, hibs being slightly better after DF nerf. Infs hit hardest, NS hits fastest and SB doesent really have anything that's better than any of them
still dont think that using a 2h weapon is a mentionable advantage, cos its by far a worse choice than using left axe

 

[PJS]

there are items with dex/qui debuff procs/charges

 

[Yadeniel]

Give alb group class more love then... give love to scout...

Sbs only know QQ. Nerf that i cant own !!!

1) Sbs whine about DF, DF is nerfed now. Instant of whine nerf DF, whine to mythic to make stun effect in both assassins in harmstring.. so all the assassins will have the same stun, same style, ....

2) Whine about debuff? omg, u ask mythic for a dex/quick debuff? maybe ask for a intantkill button.. with dex/quick u make the target swing speed go down... unfair debuffing WS/swing speed, vs WS/con debuff. Btw con debuff is useless when u PA.

3) 2.5spec points. With 2.5spec points from 2.2 from NS and SB .. infil only win a 9% to swing with left weapon, when SBs always hit with both weapons.. have more hps.. and NS have DDs sometimes usefull..

4) RAs. HAve u seen NF RAs? NS have the best RA in Assassins vs assassins...


Well. Read a bit NF or take a look and u will see in NF u fight assassins vs assassins 1 of 50..

+ SBs and NS in frontiers usually have the heat resist buff up+AoM3+EM+26% from SC.... try to beat that with heaters :/ . Infils run with thrust and slash weapons again in frontiers. + Thrust infils dont have really good weapons like battler and malice :/ and SBs are resistant to thrust..

Stop whining all the day.. SB isnt a gimped class. But if SBs still try to play like pre1.62.. they are gimping the clasS

 

[Gizor]

Give alb group class more love then... give love to scout...

Sbs only know QQ. Nerf that i cant own !!!

1) Sbs whine about DF, DF is nerfed now. Instant of whine nerf DF, whine to mythic to make stun effect in both assassins in harmstring.. so all the assassins will have the same stun, same style, ....

2) Whine about debuff? omg, u ask mythic for a dex/quick debuff? maybe ask for a intantkill button.. with dex/quick u make the target swing speed go down... unfair debuffing WS/swing speed, vs WS/con debuff. Btw con debuff is useless when u PA.

3) 2.5spec points. With 2.5spec points from 2.2 from NS and SB .. infil only win a 9% to swing with left weapon, when SBs always hit with both weapons.. have more hps.. and NS have DDs sometimes usefull..

4) RAs. HAve u seen NF RAs? NS have the best RA in Assassins vs assassins...


Well. Read a bit NF or take a look and u will see in NF u fight assassins vs assassins 1 of 50..

+ SBs and NS in frontiers usually have the heat resist buff up+AoM3+EM+26% from SC.... try to beat that with heaters :/ . Infils run with thrust and slash weapons again in frontiers. + Thrust infils dont have really good weapons like battler and malice :/ and SBs are resistant to thrust..

Stop whining all the day.. SB isnt a gimped class. But if SBs still try to play like pre1.62.. they are gimping the clasS

Man, you got the clue!

 

[Salamurhaaja]

Can I ask for thrust line so I actually benefit for choosing kobie, not norse.

 

[Bloodaxe_Springskalle]

Yadeniel u did exacltly what i asked not to do ^^
read half the post and hit a random reply butten b4 u rambled on in your wannabe elite style...
jesus such children in this game =/

 

[Jaem-]

Omg not this assasin arguement thread again, Zzz, just do a search or something if you want to read the answers/whines.

 

[Appollo]

Leave us alone, we gimped enuf as it is

 

[Simmern]

After toa.. SB has become a quite strong class.. So you shouldn't whine ;x

 

[illu]

TBH I feel sorry for lowbie assasins / sb's, as it is tough as you start out (just duo with another sb or with a hunter till you have enough RPs to solo - or keep adding to fg v fg fights :>), but as you play the game more and more - you just adapt to what is thrown at you.

The SB Class is a fun class, you can pretty much pick your targets, so other assasins, soloers, archer types, casters are all pretty fair game.

The game seems pretty good the way it is at the moment - tbh I don't think that DF needed to be nerfed, as most of the time, purge is used to counter any kind of stun that is inflicted. When purge is down - life is a lot tougher - but then again - I don't expect to win all the fights - got to let other ppl win some of the time :>

And any assasin with Shades of Mist + a legendary heat weapon or 2 can give most other assasins a run for their money.

Oli - illusb

 

[Dorin]

aye after 2 years of DF whine mythic addressed the issue :>

 

[Fediuld]

tbh they have to nerf all the assasins against the tanks. Is outrageous assasin be match for tanks and in many situations kill them. And take from the game all the autotrain. 2.5xLevel is enough for spec points.

 

[np.finster]

SBs are NOT underpowered. Just hard to spec.

Midgard has the best core support in groups, Albion has the best subterfuge.

Deal with it.

<very content with DF nerf to less ungodly stun duration>

 

[Jox]

After toa.. SB has become a quite strong class.. So you shouldn't whine ;x

A classic missunderstanding;

SBs have +10% against thrust, so if infils wanted to dragonfang us they had to deal with a damage penalty. Today(post ToA) they keep their dragonfang but wield heat leg weapons and gain 25% in damage(from 90 to 115).

Saracens have +5% heat, so sbs only gain +10% while infils gain +25%.

Besides, infils and especially ns can use Battler + Malice cause we sbs are weak to slash, but for sbs Battler is out of question(infils; neutral, ns; restistant).



Whatever, the discussion is old and I have become used to suck.