A Serious Question to hibs.. all of you!

[leap]

I'm frankly disappointed, all hibs wanna produce seems to be as follows:
Bard -> Mezz zergz!
PBAoE mages -> Kill many from inside keep
Warden -> Keep healers/nukers alive
Druid -> Healer to heal and ressurect those who died
Tank classes -> So that they can kill mezzed Zergz!

then whats left is those few who even undertake the time and aggrevation of xping a char solo mostly. and never get appreciated in rvr cuz they killed someone that gives rp.

So my question is as follows is this the perfect realm containing:
Bard
PBAoE mages
Warden
Druid
Tank classes

If so im no longer a proud player of DAoC or Hibernia.
I have wasted time and money.

Leap out.

 

[Auscia]

Hear, hear.

This is exactly one of the reasons why I constantly teeter on the verge of quitting and staying for another day. For me, the reason for lingering on isn't RvR, PvE, or, in fact, anything that the game mechanics produce. For me, it's roleplaying. Always has been and will be.
Think about it. The game is about optimizing yourself so that you are one hairwidth more of a badass mofo than the next hapless player. The game is tedious and it just keeps repeating itself.
So, this is why I stick to roleplaying. It's interesting, it's ever-changing and you never know what lies up the road. So far, there's been intrigue, secrets (both dark and less dark), love affairs, jealousy, vengefulness, hate, joy, singing, lots of drinking, philosophical discussions to the wee hours of the morning, and even one marriage. In short, everything one could want from a good TV series - except we make the story up as we go.

So. You can keep up striving to be #1 on some 1337 killz list. Meanwhile, I'll be having a bottle of brandy with my friends, talking about war, men and marriage and making merry.


-Auscia Starbrow, guild master of The Kindred.

 

[kameh]

personally I dont really care what classes are in my rvr groups, because if people know thier classes generally you can do well with any mix.

As far as stalkers go..

rangers = superb for interupting/killing casters, archers and healers. Can do good damage to enemy tanks

nightshade = is there anything these little chaps and chappesses wont try and kill? casters are doomed, archers usually turn and run, tanks have a hard time against them and healers cant stand the sight of them.

The stalker classes are ace in rvr, all I can do is mez, heal, run about like a girl and sing in my broken gareth gates type voice

 

[Novamir]

so, different classes do different things in rvr, what's the problem? i'd like to see a pbaoe chanter try to mez a FG of albs. or myself to defend a keep lord with pbaoe.

all classes have unique differences which they are good at in rvr. any good player playing any class can be excellent in an rvr group.

 

[old.Charonel]

your also forgetting that these classes dont ONLY get to do that one aspect, a pbaoe mage is never in the position of only being able to pbaoe, mana elds for instance can do a hell of a lot more at range, pbaoe is only one aspect, a manachanter has a nasty little nuker pet, run buff etc... tanks dont just kill mezzed zergs, they can act defensively and slam enemies to keep others alive, all sorts.

it depends a LOT on who's playing the character rather than only what the class itself can do, take minstrels, i've seen soooooooooo many minstrels who can't play the character simply because of interface problems and not bothering to practice enough, but you also see some that have actually managed to integrate the different elements of the class and use everything at once, those misntrels aren't just a second rate mezzer with taxi abilities anymore, they're quite a lot more, they run around soloing several people at once because nobody can manage to get to them, or if they do, they find themselves in a position where they're taking too much damage, or the minstrel is taking almost none, combined with their mezzed friends etc... all a big problem, but attacking one of the (for want of a better word) speedbot minstrels who dont bother to learn the class properly is actually quite an easy kill...

in my oppinion, class defines your job to a large extent, but the player defines what the class can ACTUALLY do, and some people can bring quite a surprise in their effectiveness

 

[leap]

My point in this is...

Is this the kinda grps we wanna see in rvr, since noone seems to want shades/rangers in ther grps, it take a month at v. least to build a good stalker and play rvr and all ppl kep thinking of is themself and their perfect grps containing only the elements above.

I myself have tried some things with my ns and found out i can almost solo a lvl 50 warrior with a little assistance as lvl 34 now i havent been out so múch since i got dodger but the thing is... They are hard to lvl due to ppl see them as a threat to a pve grp? nah i'd say a shade can tank as well as an actual tank, especially with all ra's that are around

just a thought, maybe im wrong maybe im not, but only friends can from now on look forward for my rezzes and assisting in whatever they need my warden for

Leap out.

 

[old.Phlobin]

The class qualities become more important, the more u have to depend on people u dont know well.

For exping nightshades and rangers still have a hard time to find groups. Best advice is, find a guild with decent people, who like to group with you or make yourself known as a good group leader and know your way to the exping spots (for example epic zone). The tanking discussion hasent changed much till yet apart from ashort phase where some pple actually tried to group shades/rangers.

Shades are much appreciated these days in rvr for their scouting abilities (see hidden and stuff). A good group should contain at least one nightshade. So as a shade u are "usefull" in a way.

But as the game advances and not many new people join in, same people tend to stay together. the aspect of knowing your pple around becomes more important. best advice is to find a guild, where u can build these contacts. if your current guild doesnt give u this maybe u should think about switching

 

[Novamir]

well imo either ranger or shade now is essential in an rvr group. shade even more so because of detect hidden.

 

[kameh]

people dont owe you because your a stalker.

NS's are good at tanking but personally I'd still rather be healing a shield hero as they have far more HPs and if they get double hit they're unlikely to go down giving me time to heal. I've grouped with several shades and rangers so far in both xp and rvr and never have a problem with either.

Now that's coming from someone that created a bard to pair with his nightshade so he could level the shade as getting groups was too hard.

I cant think of a time when anyone in any rvr group that I've been in said no to a shade or ranger joining the group.

As far as only rezing your friends that's quite.. well.. sad.. your hardly going to encourage people to group your shade if you run about being bitter and telling them to f*ck off when they ask for a rez

btw I personally think both classes are vital in rvr, detect hidden for shades and the rangers long range attacks are just the most obvious examples that come to mind.

 

[Noche]

Shades rn´t that good in rvr grp unless they know very well wot r they doing and nobody interrupts em (10 sec restealth timer or mezzed while stealthed... which sux big time) then they can kill v well and be a nightmare for enemies.

Rangers in general r more appealing in grp due to their high damage at good range, well played ranger is even better than a shade in grp IMO but well... shhhhh <Shade lfg...>

 

[kameh]

I could really have done with a level 45+ shade near me a few hours ago when I got my arse handed to me by an infiltrator and scout combo

tanks hard run off with the other group bard whilst I rez'd people and me and my newly rez'd patients were toast

 

[censi]

I think he is getting at what Mythic have done to stealth classes....

Basically when Daoc first started, players wanting to Solo played either an Archer, assasin, or minstral.....

All other Classes are grp orientated...

Mythic soon realised that they had over powered the stealth classes.... The first few patches fixed ridiculous oversites in the stealth classes ability to kill.....

Since then Mythic have been constantly battering the stealth classes... to the point where they are all almost forced to throw away their best skill (stealthing) and just run around doing the normal RVR bordem...

As I have said before an archers impact on a grp compared to a light specc nuker is a joke.....

My advice to ne1 starting this game.... If you wanna solo dont play a minstral or an archer.... An be warned if you go for an assasin they will hit you with the nerf bat soon......

They might as well just delete stealth classes......

 

[Envenom2]

how can they actually nerf assiassins? i just dont get it rofl as if there gonna put stealth on a timer for an assissin it would defeat the whole object of the class.

and as for Archers they should be counting there blessings i dont even have see hidden anymore neither does most shades i know i doubt other realm assiassins have it either so archers can basicly solo now.fair enuff u may run into the odd see hidden but not as many ppl have it as before.

 

[kameh]

Censi that's a good point I stand corrected. They're making solo rvr a lot harder, at this rate I'll soon be able to rvr better with my bard if I spec him right than some NS's lol

I've never had a problem with the stealth classes, I think they add a sense of unknown danger to the frontiers, especially if your leveling out there. I think it all came down to the people who'd never play them not understanding just how vulnerable you are once you drop stealth, they only ever saw you when you popped up and killed.. then got away. But that's because you could pick your fights and they couldnt.

Unfair, but so is life I guess.

 

[Envenom2]

never had a problem with my NS soloed virtualy all my 1mill rps and things got alot easier after last patch at rr5 u can spec a good spec on a shade which makes a hell of alot of diff

 

[Ensceptifica]

Originally posted by leap
I'm frankly disappointed, all hibs wanna produce seems to be as follows:
Bard -> Mezz zergz!
PBAoE mages -> Kill many from inside keep
Warden -> Keep healers/nukers alive
Druid -> Healer to heal and ressurect those who died
Tank classes -> So that they can kill mezzed Zergz!

So my question is as follows is this the perfect realm containing:
Bard
PBAoE mages
Warden
Druid
Tank classes

PvE:
I like either a bard or a mentalist for mana regen.
I like a druid for heals, but wardens, bards and mentalists usually are a reasonable substitute.
PBaoe simply is one of the fastest ways I know to get xp, but I used to get groups equally easy as a light eldritch and frankly I find that a group of skilled players will get a lot more done than the standard pbaoe group of newbies.
As for tanks... my eld is lvl 31 now, and most of my xp groups have had blademasters, nightshades and an occasional hero or champ as tanks. Rangers usually are glad to join, and I have no complaints about their performance in xp groups.

RvR:
Rangers and shades are crucial if you don't have a cg or /as keeping you updated. The problem is usually staying together while a stealther sets off to scout and the group has to stay on the move... but I value stealthers very much in RvR.
I could sum up why all the other classes are valuable in RvR, but I'll just say that anyone who adjusts his playing style to the people in his group is a valuable addition. Ofcourse some things are expected of players -you expect a bard to mez and play end/mana, you expect a druid to heal, etc...- but I've seen a lot of diverse playstyles be succesful. Limiting yourself to one style is limiting your own fun.

 

[old.Nol]

um with regards to rezzing, My rezzing order goes...

rezzers - bards first for mana song
druids
wardens
then group
then others

I never leave dead if I can, I will sit and wait to rez you. If I am not rezzing you, it is because I don't have enough power. If I run away, chances are I have no power and there is a stealther about.

But my first job is always rez.

 

[old.Xanthian]

I group NS due to see hidden, I also group Rangers on occasions, but most Rangers I ever see LFG are green con.

Thing that pisses me off about the stealth classes, is that when the group is about to hit the deck they stealth and bugger off.. kinds annoying and not very sports-man-like..

Obviously Rangers DO have a valid space in groups, look at Eleasias, RR9 and afaik he dont solo as much as he used to.

When the game 1st started Rangers were a solo class, and was a skilled class to play, no with all the silly RA's and whats-not, Rangers have to adapt to a more "group" oriented style, which doesnt mean running off solo, getting killed other side of the frontier and moaning about not getting rezz.

Thing is you made that character, knowing fullwell the limitations and bonuses they carry, you can only blame yourself if you dislike your character.

 

[sprit]

What i can say about my druid in an rvr group... a avile back u couldnt get a rvr group if u handt got gp... that have changed now. iam not a good healer or a good buffer and ppl nagg me about it. i go Na cuse i whant to put up a fight to. still have insta heal that are uber in rvr and helps alot, now got insta root to that make attacking tanks stand still... but still ppl whant me to heal and rezz and that i do... it my job... whate ever my spec is as druid ure job is rezz (all) and heal what u can. So a druid in rvr is a good thing to have. and gp dont make i worse. of curse a ment and bard in rvr grups are good to have to speed mana nukes dots and so one... but a druid is hibs main healer... how badly speced they might they are. So a druid with insta heals and buffs make diffrens

as for rangers/shades i say i love em in rvr... they help so damn much.. to spot invader and and to kill casters/healers... and the attacking lads dont know the number they are facing

Sprit lev 50 druid

 

[dragil]

Originally posted by leap
I'm frankly disappointed, all hibs wanna produce seems to be as follows:
Bard -> Mezz zergz!
PBAoE mages -> Kill many from inside keep
Warden -> Keep healers/nukers alive
Druid -> Healer to heal and ressurect those who died
Tank classes -> So that they can kill mezzed Zergz!

then whats left is those few who even undertake the time and aggrevation of xping a char solo mostly. and never get appreciated in rvr cuz they killed someone that gives rp.

So my question is as follows is this the perfect realm containing:
Bard
PBAoE mages
Warden
Druid
Tank classes

If so im no longer a proud player of DAoC or Hibernia.
I have wasted time and money.

Leap out.

In answer to the above... I think we can basically say this is the group that all people 40+ and starting a group in Innis look for. Therefore all our realms other character types are stuck lvl 40 having a nightmare to lvl because everyone wants the perfect RvE group

It's quite simple if you don't fit into the above character you don't get a group in Innis. I believe the reasons for this is one most groups look for the perfect group and max xp. Second that they believe the group would do worse if it had a anything but the above (something I think is not true). Thirdly groups are trying to fight monster to high a lvl for there group.

After all most people look at RvR classes like ranger, nightshades, void eldritchs etc as being worse to group with than the above classes. Instead these kind of player classes should be supported by the above classes.

An example of this is that I have both a perfect group class i.e. Druid and a Realm vs Realm class i.e. Void Eldritch. It took me fives times as long to get my Void Eldritch to lvl 40 than it did with my Druid. Not too mention having to do an amount of soloing because of difficulty getting groups with Eldritch. Also my Void Eldritch has been stuck at lvl 40 for about 2 months now as nooone in Innis will pick a Non-PBAOE for a group

I know the above problem does not apply to everyone... there are a number of people who are considerate enough to include some of the non-perfect group classes in there groups.... for this I am very grateful but the number of people like this is few and far between.

 

[censi]

never had a problem with my NS soloed virtualy all my 1mill rps and things got alot easier after last patch at rr5 u can spec a good spec on a shade which makes a hell of alot of diff

dont you have buffbott though??? (eminemshow)

 

[Kobold]

hmmm eminemshow is a bard....would be kinda stupid using a bard as buffbot

 

[Kobold]

Originally posted by leap
I'm frankly disappointed, all hibs wanna produce seems to be as follows:
Bard -> Mezz zergz!
PBAoE mages -> Kill many from inside keep
Warden -> Keep healers/nukers alive
Druid -> Healer to heal and ressurect those who died
Tank classes -> So that they can kill mezzed Zergz!

then whats left is those few who even undertake the time and aggrevation of xping a char solo mostly. and never get appreciated in rvr cuz they killed someone that gives rp.

So my question is as follows is this the perfect realm containing:
Bard
PBAoE mages
Warden
Druid
Tank classes

If so im no longer a proud player of DAoC or Hibernia.
I have wasted time and money.

Leap out.

Bah it's stupid to look at it in that way. What you mentioned here is allmost all the classes in hib, and imo it's nice to have a various classes in a group. And btw the biggest RP holder of whole excalibur is a RANGER, a class you didn't even mentioned. And btw, when was you last time in albion or midgard? Try to make the difference you're self instead of go to emain, die, go to emain die etc......

 

[Noche]

Hehehe Envenom is buffed

 

[Whandall]

Hmm im playing a lvl 50 shade and im happy with it in rvr. Getting groups is quite easy and rvr itself is fun. Soloing without buffbot usually dont last very long these days....

@Xanthian: Well this is something that has to change imho. Sure im alive after a groupwipe sopmetimes cause i am mezzed + stealthed and forgotten by enemys but even if im last men standing ill try to rip at least one of the enemys that attacked us


btw - agree with Noche buffbots suck *cough*

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by old.Eternal[EW]
hmmm eminemshow is a bard....would be kinda stupid using a bard as buffbot

Well it is envenom

 

[kameh]

hey my bard (erm now my main) was pretty much just a buff bot/grouping partner for my socially leprous nightshade he did pretty well out of it too

 

[old.Charonel]

well, personally my idea of a "perfect" group, would be:

2 pbae mages:

if were going for "perfect" then a low aggro, highest damge spell in the game is obviously the best thing to use for nuking, especially since were talking about baf mob pulling, which is as close to "perfect" xp as you can get

1 bard/mana spec mentalist

because both of these are the BANE of downtime

1 druid

healing, plain and simple.

2 wardens

synch double bubble, and can both tank just fine for pbae groups, meaning you get four people's worth of stuff for just two group slots! amazing value deal!!!

2 tanks

by tanks, i actually mean: nightshade, ranger, blademaster, hero, champion. why list all those and put hero/champ last? simple, none of the others can use great big bloody two handed weaps to lose aggro with and get the mages killed, there's nothing more irritating than having a spearo, who has enough ss spec to taunt well with a fast weap, but who insists on using his spear because it does 1337 damage , then he get's the mages, and then the whole group killed because his monumentally slow weapon missed twice in a row, yet still they do it

still, not all of them, met a lot of really great hero's who do the job well, but since i've never met a shade who couldnt keep aggro properly , you figure it out who i'd rather have tanking , and in pbae groups with two pbaers the mobs die so fast that the shades low hits aren't much of a problem

Now that's my idea of a "perfect" group, but it's not like i'm gonna refuse to join if a group has a different assortment of people... there are ways to make a group optimal, but you dont need an optimal group, people seem to be missing this.

however, i will rarely be seen from now on, in anything other then a pbae baf group, reason being that i got into a good one where everyone knew their job, the tanks grouped the mobs properly, nobody used spears , and both pbaers (i of course, was one) actually waited for the tanks to land a taunt before starting their nukes...

well the xp was insane, i was getting xp from each mob death, the same as when you kill in one mob in a normal "gank the purple!!!1" group , but killing three at once, with 2 pbaers, meant that they also went down FAST, and with almost no downtime due to both mages having good manaregen ra's etc... i was getting about five times the xp i get for a solo kill each pull, and pulling almost non stop, easily the pull rate was twice as fast as normal grouping, the xp was roughly 4-6 times faster than a "normal" group, and it was FUN, there's a lot to be said about frantic xping on purple bafs without using mezz

after being in a group like that, and any half decent pbae group can be like that, going back to any other method really isnt an option anymore, you just can't stomach the lack of speed or the boredom of mezzing and killing one at a time

 

[kameh]

I usually hint heavily about spearo's using blades/shield in my groups. It's a lot safer for everyone in my opinion

 

[Envenom2]

but noche what you dont seem to have grasped is if u wanna solo u need to be buffed if u aint buffed forget it every single infil i fight now is buffed so its only fair i get buffs and yes eminemshow is my buffer/speed bot when i can use him.But i get the uber druid buffs from druidna

Even if i dont get buffs from druidna i always find a druid willing to spare a druid buff

So in short if you wanna solo be buffed its a sad fact of the game now live with it or group