A question of loyalty

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Killgorde

Guest
Sorry guys, something I cant get my head round and perhaps someone can square this circle for me. It regards dual accounting...those few who have chars on two separate realms.

Now in the first instance, having levelled with the same guys for four months I dont think I could bring myself to be merrily chatting away with them on gc one minute and the next trying to gank them as part of an enemy invasion force. Call it ethics, scruples or friendship, but if I wanted to try another realm out Pryden is always there at no additional cost.

During keep or relic raids, where do your dual-accounters loyalties lie? As its more fun to attack than defend, which one do you log into? Say your relic is under threat in one realm and you hear of the attack while on the other...what do you do?

I look towards Hibernia's relics and wonder the feasibility of a relic raid there given some of their high profile chars have alt chars within prominent Midgard guilds. What would their decision be if it meant their mates in Hibernia potentially losing a relic? And if their 1st char is denied access to gc, they still have 3 bites at the cherry to gain 20 levels in no time, worm their way into an alliance guild, and gain damaging intelligence if their intentions are less than honourable.

A few nights ago Naz went raiding in emain with a few other guilds, and for a change we made it public knowledge. Fifteen minutes later an intelligence report comes back to me that there was a large Hib force biding their time in the Gorge, apparantly waiting to see which relic we were after (as it happens we were just on a spur of the moment keep raiding tour). Kinda smells a bit - in my experience it's rare for peeps to be hanging around for more than 30 seconds doing nothing given the impatience the majority of people on all realms suffer from.

I have been heavily critisised elsewhere about last Friday's Excal raid for placing restrictions on who attended. All I can say is, if I do organise a relic raid again (and that's not clear-cut given all the flak you get from peeps on your own side even if it succeeds) it will be done by PM invitation to those peeps I know and trust, because the alternative is risking the raid being compromised and wasting a lot of peoples time.

The above does not apply to re-rollers who have deleted on one realm to move to another (and Area for God's Sake stick with one char this time :)).

I would suggest to the others that if they feel the urge to try an alternative realm, go to Pry and do it for half the cost. Nazgul is one guild you will never be trusted or welcome in ;)
 
A

Alrindel

Guest
I hope that, should the english DAOC population ever warrant it and we get the third server, GOA will ban playing on multiple realms on the same server as Mythic have done. Even for honest players with good intentions, it's impossible to unknow what you know about the enemy when you switch back and forth, and it's unfair for everybody.
 
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old.Nol

Guest
It's pretty much impossible to move a force through emain without being seen, no matter how many times our players get XP killed, they seem determined to XP out there anyway. There are at least 2 rangers in Emain all day.

You are accusing us of cheating yet again, it dissappoints me.

As long as you realise this is a game, it's quite easy to remain impartial.
 
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Eleasias

Guest
Originally posted by Killgorde

I look towards Hibernia's relics and wonder the feasibility of a relic raid there given some of their high profile chars have alt chars within prominent Midgard guilds.
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who?
 
K

Killgorde

Guest
Originally posted by Nol
It's pretty much impossible to move a force through emain without being seen, no matter how many times our players get XP killed, they seem determined to XP out there anyway. There are at least 2 rangers in Emain all day.

You are accusing us of cheating yet again, it dissappoints me.

As long as you realise this is a game, it's quite easy to remain impartial.
Click to expand...

Lol Nol (Oh Yee of the Wall-Bugger's Guild ;) ) I accuse nobody of cheating. Although it is fair to say that my force was 16 strong inside DC with the rest still in Midgard when your hi-level force was first sighted static in the Gorge. Or are you suggesting that you do this every time 16 Middies of mixed level get together in Emain?
 
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old.Odysseus

Guest
We in Albion are suffering from the same problem.
The dude that seems like an ok fella u accept into your guild may backstab u at next relicraid, and u'll never know about it.

It annoys me that I even need to have those considerations, but the problem itself is not only linked to multiple accounts. It is also linked to ppl that have friends in other realms and a questionable morale.

We accepted one into guild that has multiple accounts, but we set up a demand that he delete all non-alb chars on excal. How do we know he does that?

Another problem is IRC's big mouth.

It is sad that we cannot concentrate on gaming rather than scheming out-of-game.
 
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old.Nol

Guest
There were less then 16 middies in the gorge last night and they were met by 3 large high level forces.

Ask Bee how hibbies move now, we can no longer go to the frontier in small groups or solo, we can only move as a couple of groups. Most of the time we are waiting in the gorge it is for a latecomer. After release, there is at least a 10 minute wait. We should be so lucky to have a little PK trip to Emain.

As pointed out before, we don't really need to cross realm spy, we have enough activity in our borders constantly, so much so, there are some 40 + chars that have never seen Albion or Midgards frontiers.

Go for a Hib relic, so what if it fails, at least it is an attempt. I would have some sympathy if you actually attempted the raid and got beat down after your tenth attempt, but neither of you has even tried. Why don't you just get back to fighting instead of whinging?
 
H

<Harle>

Guest
Originally posted by Killgorde

A few nights ago Naz went raiding in emain with a few other guilds, and for a change we made it public knowledge. Fifteen minutes later an intelligence report comes back to me that there was a large Hib force biding their time in the Gorge, apparantly waiting to see which relic we were after (as it happens we were just on a spur of the moment keep raiding tour). Kinda smells a bit - in my experience it's rare for peeps to be hanging around for more than 30 seconds doing nothing given the impatience the majority of people on all realms suffer from.
Click to expand...

IT might be something new for you, but most normal RvR is taking place in emain, so people from Hibernia who want to go there gather outside Druim Ligen, which is the Cruachan Gorge. And even though it seems strange, we sometimes wait for a sizeable force before heading off to emain instead of going in singles or pairs because the way is damn long and damn annoying and people don't want to get killed by one of the 20 enemy stealthers who usually hang around in the gorge. I think you are getting a bit paranoid here...
 
S

Subbiz

Guest
let me add another example for you killg, I've posted about crossrealm spying before too, and be carefull who's toes u might step over, some ppl seem to be on the edge when it comes to this topic. Here goes:

One day around 5 pm cet in emain. A small amount of middies, a few healers and pulse runies were hanging around amg for a long time with almost no action. then we decided to go for crim. Pls note that ther had been NO chance for stealthers to pass amfg for quite some time, since some 20-25 middies had been sitting and waiting for the doors to open.
we then report over /as that we are going for DC, and those who wanted to come along should go there asap. Then we took off. around 30 sec later, a hounter scouting alb telekeep reported: "some 20 albs are rushing out from alb telekeep and seem to be in a big hurry"

a few secs later another report from amfg/bowl:
"an alb force is moving straight towards DC, you have company very soon"

those albs, some 20-25 blue/yellowcon mostly to a lvl 50, stormed straight from atk where they had been luring for some time it seems, probably building up numbers, rushed directly for DC with no stop.

that smells a bit rotten too, if u ask me.
It tend to go more smooth when things are not reported over /as and are done spontaniously (or atleast very secretly and with short notice)

:rolleyes:
 
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old.TheAussie

Guest
Originally posted by subbiz


then we decided to go for crim. Pls note that ther had been NO chance for stealthers to pass amfg for quite some time, since some 20-25 middies had been sitting and waiting for the doors to open.
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LOL do you think we are scared to walk stealthed in a big group of mids ?
Do you think we are so stupid to open the gates ourself?

Better ask Maratook if he saw something ... cauz i'm pretty sure he saw me ;)
 
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Aeiedil

Guest
aussie, they do if they are coming from the TK, unless theres a climb point on MG's i dont know of, and if there is i would love to be shown it, i so frequently get stuck behind the mg :) Subbiz, it does smell a bit rotten, but as Aussie said you may have been scouted by an inf, maybe a patient one that was through before you were there? some alb once thought i was a SB cause i waited stalking one person for about half an hour after the hibs were nowhere to be seen, and they were near the mid tk :p

though it does sound suspicious, the army may have been there already planning for a raid.... maybe?

as for loyalty, my loyalty is to the realm i play at that time, and i dont tell of what i hear, though atm ive not heard anything when playing on another realm on excalibur that would have to make me choose between 2 realms, as luckily the only time i have taken part in anything other than emain melee was a rush to try and retake Renaris from mids :) (got massacred)
 
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Subbiz

Guest
Re: Sub

Originally posted by Odies
You sir, are an idiot.

- Odies
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oh no dont make me cry pls ok?

aile: aye ofc. ppl can wait patiently and that was also my first thought, and I still HOPE that was it. but it still smells :)

aussie: nah no1 passed, and thats like 3 weeks ago.. not something that happened a few days ago.
 
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old.Odies

Guest
If that doesn't make you cry we can always play a game of sc/bw, that should bring out the tears =x

- Odies
 
S

Subbiz

Guest
Originally posted by Odies
If that doesn't make you cry we can always play a game of sc/bw, that should bring out the tears =x

- Odies
Click to expand...

I havent played that game for like a year but I bet i still could spank ur arse, all danes have always sucked at bw, more or less
 
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old.Odies

Guest
Save the excuses, you will need them after the game.

- Odies
 
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old.chesnor

Guest
Thing is with daoc, is it is becoming more like CS everyday. For the unintiated CS was swamped with cheats to the point where you couldn't kill without being accused of cheating. It was a pure in-game issue with CS as Valve have done almost nothing to make the engine cheat proof.

Daoc is different as the games mechanics makes cheating enormously difficult for all but the most technically gifted. But undoubtedly cross realm spying etc.. goes on LOTS. There is nothing that can be done about it, ever. Ultimately all that will happen is most guilds will shrink to a trusted core of dedicated players, rarely recruiting and always working alone.

I always thought that the high profile players who have been flamed repeatedly on these boards for spying are the least likely to be guilty. Would a lvl50 be stupid enough to publicly play in another realm (with the same freaking name ffs), pasting it over boards if he was intending to spy (well, if he was a really sh*t spy, yes). The spies and cross realm rats are the ones who are anonymous and unassuming imho. Like all good spies.

I havn't seen much, if anything, on US forums about this issue being a problem. I don't think it is because they have players with more integrity or honesty. I just think that this is a non-problem in the long run. Once each server has a healthy population of 50s (100s) who RvR regularly, the concept of huge inter-guild hard to manage keep and relic raids dissappears. It can be done by 1 guild, there and then and only using players who are implicitly trusted.
 
K

Killgorde

Guest
Fellas the topic is not about whether people cheat or not, we all see enough examples of that to debate and flame about it on this thread...it is about the motivation and justification people have for possessing accounts in 2 (or God forbid 3) realms on the same server. And how they react when their "dual-loyalty" is tested.
 
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Khalen

Guest
If I had another account I would help my first realm only. The one which would be my main realm. But I could also see people who just play all 3 or 2 realms and just wanna see every raid fail (those people are real sicko's). And just to say they wanna play that realm as well is a bit weird because there are lots of other servers where you can make also chars on. And who has time for 2 realms anyway let stand alone 3..
 
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old.MacKewl

Guest
I have to ask serious questions about why someone would feel the need to have 2 accounts on the same server?? If U want a different realm to play on then join the Prydween (sp) server ok that will limit U to just two of the realms as only 2 english servers but still..

Loyality in this day and age is scarce and even rarer with online games. Sure it is only a game but still there should be some loyality.. otherwise why play RvR on any realm?? It's about defending UR realm.. defending UR forts.. Defending UR relics.. Defending UR honour..

I guess if U have 2 accounts and one takes part in RvR and the other doesn't it is more acceptable.. but there is a whole nother server why complicate things??

I think GOA should proabably monitor IPs and restrict accounts accordingly.. :)
 
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Aeiedil

Guest
It all depends on the player. I liked playing on someone elses charachter because it gave me a breath of fresh air without having the tedium of leveling up a charachter to rvr levels. As I see it this is an RP game (at least i hope so ;)), and so if I am playing a charachter in another realm I will just as happily slaughter those who I normally side with. Call me a traitor if you will, but thats how I see it should be done. If you want to play as other realms on the same server, be prepared to kill your friends from time to time :)
 
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Gekul

Guest
I want another account on mid, 4 character slots isn't enough :)

aaah, sorry. Pushed this thread to 2 pages with an irrelevant post :*(
 
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old.¥ØÐÄ

Guest
Originally posted by subbiz

.
we then report over /as that we are going for DC, and those who wanted to come along should go there asap. Then we took off. around 30 sec later, a hounter scouting alb telekeep reported: "some 20 albs are rushing out from alb telekeep and seem to be in a big hurry"

a few secs later another report from amfg/bowl:
"an alb force is moving straight towards DC, you have company very soon"

those albs, some 20-25 blue/yellowcon mostly to a lvl 50, stormed straight from atk where they had been luring for some time it seems, probably building up numbers, rushed directly for DC with no stop.

that smells a bit rotten too, if u ask me.
It tend to go more smooth when things are not reported over /as and are done spontaniously (or atleast very secretly and with short notice)

:rolleyes:
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no a flame just a asumption. but looking at your reply i see you said u decided to go for dc and then THIRTY seconds later a alb force headed for amg.
Do you really think albs can gather 20 people that fast after getting info from a spy ? ,
My guess is there was a infil in bowl side of amg "there are always high lvl infils in emain" or scouts for that matter , and you may of been spotted and the stealther may of been sending info back to albs at tk telling them when u had moved and which direction ..

with us albs we like to be on bowlside of wall defending , not tk side attacking , so it is possible they were waiting for you to move before heading to wall and then maybe followed you to attack,,,

but i agree with main poster cross realm spying is not a good thing and it will only lower the standard of rvr for everybody , thus making even more people leave doac .
 
N

Novamir

Guest
I believe that it doesn't go on. This is because I know I don't do it, and can't honestly see the next guy doing it either.

And I would also like to ask the question 'Who?' because I don't know who you are referring to either.

Please don't blame failed raids and bad tactics on excuses of cross-realming.
 
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old.Anarki

Guest
Maybe all this crossteaming crap is just a bug paranoya? Like in CS, if there is a good player every1 accuses him of cheating, if there is a failed raid, every1 starts to say that it smells.
There probably are crossteamers but u cant to nothing about it. This all depends on people and no1 can do something about it :(
 
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